Poll - do you care about poverty (2 Viewers)

[ur_inner_child]

so you want utopia in Australia before you act? good luck with that!

darl, we're saying that there are certain social problems here in Australia, which hits a little more closer to home, which we are already paying for through our taxes. It's not a selfish thing. It is the same idea and concern, but more localised.

I'm not quite sure how Butterflyfish wants us to help. Donating more, I would pressume. Higher taxes? More awareness? what?

 

[Mongke]

It's not a matter of having a utopian australia it's a matter of the will of a nation to do things for other nations - that's the real fight. Nothing will be done by giving more charity.

true, nothing will be done by giving more money, thatll probably just make it worse. but ive heard the "in my country first" line so many times, and it always ends with nothing. are you sujesting it as ur oppinion or a social statement?

 

[ur_inner_child]

true, nothing will be done by giving more money, thatll probably just make it worse. but ive heard the "in my country first" line so many times, and it always ends with nothing. are you sujesting it as ur oppinion or a social statement?

im not sure why "my country first" is so wrong.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't care about 'my country first' however I do believe we can make progress at a political level in australia to make real change long before anything can be seriously done about extreme poverty in other nations.

 

[Mongke]

darl, we're saying that there are certain social problems here in Australia, which hits a little more closer to home, which we are already paying for through our taxes. It's not a selfish thing. It is the same idea and concern, but more localised.

I'm not quite sure how Butterflyfish wants us to help. Donating more, I would pressume. Higher taxes? More awareness? what?

my concern is that that train of thought often ends with nothing being done in either countries. interesting, i heard that line in South Africa (where things are 3d world in places) and Australia... who to believe?

 

[Carnivour]

I would never have called myself "passionate" about the issue, but seeing the general responce to the other thread I guess I would classify as such just on the grounds of comparison to everyone else on here. Although it might just stem from the fact I immensely enjoy constructing an argument and a point of view and seeing where it takes me. But then again, neither did I expect such a barrage of apathy on the issue either.

I think that experience is invaluable in assesing how poverty affects people, and most Australians are sheltered in that they are never, ever exposed first-hand to the horrors of it. I am by no means trying to slight the horrors of the Australian cycle of poverty, but to be honest its not even comparable to what goes on in 3rd world countries. For those that have seen 3rd world poverty first hand, I simply refuse to believe that they will remain unmoved and unstirred by it.

 

[HotShot]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there many here in Australia caught in what would best be called a relative poverty trap - the fact that an opportunity exists isn't enough to just in effect trivialise what is an a structural issue facing some segments of Australia's population.

In saying this, I do realise that there is a need for different people to focus upon different issues, and I am happy to see that there are many who are more than willing to act in favour of countering third world poverty.

i think australia, in terms of its welfare system is taking gud care of poverty. A person considered below the pverty line, would still have a meal daily, maybe two to three, he will have shelter, essentially the basics. But they range, there are others who have h ouse and are still considered the poverty line which is just weird.

sayin all that we do have smith family, various charities that do provide some services to help these ppl, so really these ppl, are generally well taken care of.

On the hand poverty in other countries, basically they can barely get water? so really u cant compare the too. saying that it is difficult to solve simply throwing money at it, infrastructure needs to be built, desalination plants, etc. so that they are better off in the futures rather than short solutions simply by throwing bags of rice, they need to grow that rice.

sayint tat: my vote went to " Icouldnt care less", simply cos at t he moment i cant do jackshit to help.

 

[ButterflyFish]

dont feel guilty, that wont help anyone. but i totally agree with what youve just said. we should start at the bottom and work up. the only problem i have is not guilt, but in many of the countries that are poor its the result of a corrupt Government that siphons off all the relief aid to by new cars.

good post tho!

yeah there are corrupt governments, but the way i see it ... the people do not have any power to do anything about their government, or womens rights or anything... because they dont have enough to live by.

educating these people about how to be self sustainable, about their rights, giving them oppurtunities... is what will help them in the end. as someone else said, chucking money at thier governments wont do anything. But, i believe, empowering the people affected in the long term will bring results. I know its not that black and white in reality, though, but i still believe that the change can happen, through carefully structured aid (eg. the MDGs).

I dont put developing countries before australia, as i dont put australia before developing countries. I just think it is a crime to have all the unnessasary things we have in australia without trying to help people who's basic human rights are violated by poverty. poverty in Australia is not comparable.

 

[withoutaface]

I think the best solution is that we kill all poor people, cook them, then feed them to the poor so they're not hungry anymore.

 

[withoutaface]

im not sure why "my country first" is so wrong.

Because a country is just a collection of people, with most of whom you have no link. When most people say they're for their country first, they mean they're for themselves first, and if this means their country is more productive or whatever, then so be it.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

It is my opinion that people living in poverty have no one to blame but themselves. If they would stop having children then there would be more resources for each individual. Eventually the remaining people would no longer be in poverty or the group would die out all together and so obviously there would be no poverty left.

If you let your population get too large then it just isn't sustainable and you get poverty. There is no one to blame but the people who have contributed to it.

 

[Mongke]

so all the people who advocate "my country first", what are you doing about poverty in Australia? NTB? UIC? is it helping? cos once youve done helping the whole of Australia get off the poverty line, we have people dying in Africa for your attention. Oh wait, do you think that’s even possible? Puts you in a good position to nothing doesn’t it? just say it, "you cant do anything about it," dont make excuses.

You help those who need it the most first, were in a global community, now more than ever.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

People living in poverty in Africa are useless. People living in poverty in developed countries like Australia serve a purpose. There almost needs to be poor people in an economy to create a balance. Even in an country where most of the people are rich they still need checkout chicks and cleaners.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

No matter what country spending money to reduce poverty is useless, it's like throwing money into a bottomless pit. The best solution is to kill them off. Problem is some people might find that slightly immoral so the next best thing is to neglect them and hope they just die out themselves. Natural disasters and disease help us out but it's not nearly enough.

The more room that these millions of people living in poverty and refusing to stop having children take up the less for everyone else. Eventually these people and the diseases that thrive in their communities will become a bigger threat to the developed world than terrorism and war. The potential for bird flu coming out of China is a lot worse than anything Iraq could have done. If America had any sense they would level the place.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

so all the people who advocate "my country first", what are you doing about poverty in Australia? NTB? UIC? is it helping? cos once youve done helping the whole of Australia get off the poverty line, we have people dying in Africa for your attention.

I volunteer at a community legal centre that offers free legal advice to people whom cannot afford it.

You help those who need it the most first, were in a global community, now more than ever.

All I've done is said that your solution is not a good one - charity does not work. To actually help the people of africa you need real change within many different governments - I'm doing what small thing I can however inside australia. But please stop with this self-righteous bs, even if you're doing something you could be doing more - why don't you? Because you're just as greedy as any one of us, you just get more of a high off wearing wristbands, sending money and showing off to your friends about it.

 

[transcendent]

I used to care when I was young and naive.

 

[Mongke]

I volunteer at a community legal centre that offers free legal advice to people whom cannot afford it.

thats great that you help but you do see that thats not going to cure poverty? nothing you do can make poverty go away in Autralia, so dont use it as a pretext for not caring about other countries.

All I've done is said that your solution is not a good one - charity does not work. To actually help the people of africa you need real change within many different governments - I'm doing what small thing I can however inside australia.

i have not provided that solution, infact i agreed with you that it is futile earlier.

But please stop with this self-righteous bs.

i am not the US preaching morals i dont own so dont call me self-righteous.

even if you're doing something you could be doing more - why don't you? Because you're just as greedy as any one of us, you just get more of a high off wearing wristbands, sending money and showing off to your friends about it.

no, i dont. i get angry with people who uses excuses to hide how they really feel. you cant be sujesting we ignore the 3rd world, because thats the feeling i get from you. that we are more important despite the fact we live in a 1st world....

wait a minute, we both think the other is sf. you: "bc im preaching and dont actualy believe in what im saying simply to get a moral high" and me "bc youre taking the stance that Australia is more worthy of our attention than other countries which denotes an arrogance." am i right? is that what you think about my argument? you really think im just showing off

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i have not provided that solution, infact i agreed with you that it is futile earlier.

Then what do you wanna do? Why are you complaining about us? Because we want to do something about people in our own country - where we can help.

you cant be sujesting we ignore the 3rd world, because thats the feeling i get from you.

I'm suggesting that charity does nothing - we need governmental change in several governments, that's not comming any time soon... so we just do a bit to make people feel better in our own neighbourhood.

bc im preaching and dont actualy believe in what im saying simply to get a moral high

I dunno what you're saying, you're just criticising me as far as I can tell. If you're against what I'm saying then I guess you're probably in favour of charity or those wristbands or something... you're only doing this for your own moral high, just as I am when I help people out.. so don't complain about what I'm doing.

youre taking the stance that Australia is more worthy of our attention than other countries.

Australia isn't more worthy, it's just the only one I think we can help atm.

 

[Mongke]

im not complaining about you i was actually attempting to figure out what you were proposing we do about the 3rd world. it seems youve missed my point but i think ive got yours.

let me assure you, i get no moral high from any help i give to poverty victims, its a personal thing.

"I'm suggesting that charity does nothing - we need governmental change in several governments, that's not coming any time soon..."

is precisely what i think. what i object to are the self-righteous gits who use this:

"so we just do a bit to make people feel better in our own neighbourhood",

as an excuse to ignore the situation. and they exist in abundance all over the world. it seems i misjudged you, i apologise. many people use that thread as an excuse to complain about the poverty that exists without actually doing anything about it, in a phrase, an empty vessel.

what I was proposing was that we not use the home situation as a pretext for a lack of action. then, with the home situation firmly in our beliefs we conclude that its impossible to manage so why bother? thereby doing nothing about either. cyclical reasoning. but id be right in asuming you were not sujesting that, correct?

 

[ButterflyFish]

Obvioulsy the actions of ONE PERSON are not going to "End Poverty" ... a lot of people say that one person cant make a difference in the world. Perhaps that is true, but one person can make a difference in other people's lives. For example, one person can sponsor a child - and help improve living conditions for a whole community. It may not end poverty, but it is still making a positive contribution to someone's life. Some of your attitudes on here seem to be of the opinion that if you cant fix the whole problem why bother attempting everything. Sorry if i offended anyone but that is the impression i got.