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posibility? UWS: B design (visual comm)- UTS: B design (visual comm) O_o (2 Viewers)

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s1mplykat

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natstar said:
Im only going by what Ive been told from several people I spoke to when I initially wanted to study graphic design before I wanted to do marketing. I was told this both by my aunty and uncle who are both HSC markers for visual arts, as well as a family friend who is a graphic designer for such magazines like Gormet Traveller. He said that universities sometimes place to much emphasis on theory rather than practical. If the fees are a concern though, they can be paid the same was as FEE payers at uni through the FEEHELP system (or whatever its called)
nevertheless, a career in design is achievable through both uni or private college in the end, yes? it's probably just a personal bias on why id rather do the course at a university rather then a private college.. and also localities.. i cant remember if i told u in a previous post that i wanted to live on campus natstar? but never mind..

just out of curiosities sake, why did u change ur mind in doing marketing instead of design??
 

s1mplykat

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Calla said:
UTS B design (visual comm)...nearly all (or all , not sure) design courses at UTS for non-current high school leavers will require them to go through the personal statement and interview process before they are accepted. So if you want to transfer to UTS for next year, then u will have to go through the same process hellomike and i went through.
*faints*...
dammit.. i was settled about the personal statement component, i don't know if i'd perform well through interview.. T_T 'nooOooOooOoO!'
 

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s1mplykat said:
*faints*...
dammit.. i was settled about the personal statement component, i don't know if i'd perform well through interview.. T_T 'nooOooOooOoO!'
and with the T_T you just told us you're Asian. Just be confident, know the industry, know what you want to achieve, and you should be fine.
 

s1mplykat

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stazi said:
and with the T_T you just told us you're Asian. Just be confident, know the industry, know what you want to achieve, and you should be fine.
hahahahah.. well im australian! that is afterall, what it says on my passport.. =P but yeah, im of asian background..

thank u for the advice.. i'll be sure to keep that in mind.. =]
 

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The interview seems to be more of a get to know you better interview. The interview was not as serious where it was assessed but they just asked about your work, the process you took. It's to I guess, give evidence to supporting your statement.
 

s1mplykat

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natstar said:
Thats fine. I'm just suggetion other pathways if you dont end up getting what you want.
As for my change in choice. It was just a change in mind really. Ive alway been good at art and design, as well as being interested in things like advertising. I got into all the private colleges I applied for, but it just came down to choosing what I thought would lead to a better career with more job opportunities. I utilised graphic design in my final year major marketing project, so the 2 disciplines kinda interact
same.. =] i'm always doodling in photoshop after i finish scanning my drawings (and yes i know it will take more then doodles to get me though this course). although i must say, the entire 'competitiveness' in the field of design worries me quite a bit... it was kind of daunting reading things on the Design Institute of Australia (DIA) website:

Bad news
The bad news is, that for exactly those reasons, many other people just like you all want careers in design too.
The design industry in Australia has been growing rapidly for the last twenty years – and while that might sound like great news, it’s not that simple.

Competition
Competition has become the number one issue in the design professions. The plain reality is that there are many more designers around than there are jobs.
That high growth rate in terms of advertised design businesses and people recording their job as 'designer' tends to hide the fact that the design industry also has an abnormally high under-employment rate. There are a great many people attempting to find a position or make a living from self-employment.
As a consequence, not only is it really hard to get a decent job in the first place, but there are hordes of experienced designers and design companies all competing furiously for what work there is available.

Low wages
That often means prices are forced down, and unless you’re at the top of the design tree, your salary gets cut accordingly.
Starting salaries for a graduate designer fall at the bottom end of graduate salaries. The average salary for an adult designer with five years experience is currently (2006) slightly below the average adult wage in Australia.

I’m a designer too!
Another major problem throughout the industry is that there are many people calling themselves ‘designers’ who simply don’t have the necessary skills and qualifications.
This has the effect of lowering customers' confidence in the quality of work they will receive from a designer and decreasing their willingness to pay well for it.
The design industry is not protected by any form of regulation as to who can claim to be a designer. In the absence of government regulation (which is highly unlikely), there is nothing to stop people with no training jumping into an already overcrowded market.
In addition design education continues to be extremely popular, so universities, TAFE and private education providers continue to pump out thousands more design graduates every year.

Working environment
Design is a project based activity with constant production deadlines. This can frequently require working long hours and hours outside of normal working time. If time pressures and working flexible hours are not for you then maybe design is not the right profession.

Do I or don’t I?
That’s the bad news – take a long, hard, serious look at your real chances of building a career in design before you commit yourself.
Having said all that, there will always be people who are willing to take the risk, who are committed to their personal goal of being a designer, and people whose talent will enable them to shine in any circumstances.
If you’re still keen to carve yourself out a career in design, you need to decide which type of designer you want to be.

Not just pretty pictures
Design is much more than the ability to draw. A great deal of a professional designer's time is spent specifying and documenting things for manufacture, construction and printing. Design requires attention to technical detail, a great deal of person to person consultation and communication, and a great deal of administration.
Design embodies the full range of problem solving skills from those that are strictly rational, analytical and objective, to those that are inspirational, artistic and subjective.
Do you think you'll enjoy the technical, administrative and communication parts of the job?

Design education
Many designers coming through tertiary education are now doing three and four year degrees. This means that many employers consider a degree as the minimum level of training they will consider when hiring a designer.
The DIA in its role of encouraging higher standards in professional design encourages students to complete four year degrees. In the entry requirements for the professional stream in the DIA a three year degree is the education level that entitles you to Associate membership of your professional body immediately on graduation.

My first job?
Most design graduates will probably try to find work first as an employee with an existing business, design company or studio. This is the best way to become a fully rounded professional designer. There are many aspects of being a designer that you will only understand or learn by working with other experienced designers.
However, you are free to start out on your own, running your own design business straight away. It is likely to involve a huge amount of time, money and learning all sorts of general business skills before you even get to a comfortable level of self employment.

Getting work
If you’re trying to land a job as an employee in a design business, you’ll need to make sure you have a brilliant portfolio, know how to talk to people, how to sell yourself correctly, and what to do to give yourself the best chance of getting at least an interview – and maybe even a job! Check out 'Finding Employment in Design'.
You can find out all sorts of valuable information on how to prepare for job interviews in th eDIA practice Note 'PN027 Design Employment'.
Once you've started your tertiary design course you're eligible to be a student member of the DIA. This will give you access to all sorts of information (and people) that can smooth your way into the industry.


*hmmmmm...
 
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s1mplykat

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hellomike said:
The interview seems to be more of a get to know you better interview. The interview was not as serious where it was assessed but they just asked about your work, the process you took. It's to I guess, give evidence to supporting your statement.
oh okay, so would they have just asked u why u wanted to do this course, what u expect from the course etc etc.. and look through your portfolio and ask you about all the processes in your work, to sort of.. assess your ability to talk about your work and maybe make sure that the work was definitely done by you?

approximately how long did the interview go for?
 

hellomike

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Ha, what you just said answered your own question. The main thing is don't look at the interview like they want to bite your head off. The interview is for you to show who you are and your work. It goes for about 20 minutes.

The things you copied from DIA is the reality of design - if you haven't realise it or don't know half of what's happening, then you will find it very difficult. In the end, you need to know who you are and what type of designer you want to be. Lay options, directions and so forth. This separates from serious and average designers. I can't say it anymore that it is about ideas and the process which you take to create something. Photoshop is nothing but a tool.

Edit: Focus now and not look too much ahead of you. Anyway, I've had enough of talking in this thread ...
 
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s1mplykat

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hellomike said:
Ha, what you just said answered your own question. The main thing is don't look at the interview like they want to bite your head off. The interview is for you to show who you are and your work. It goes for about 20 minutes.

The things you copied from DIA is the reality of design - if you haven't realise it or don't know half of what's happening, then you will find it very difficult. In the end, you need to know who you are and what type of designer you want to be. Lay options, directions and so forth. This separates from serious and average designers. I can't say it anymore that it is about ideas and the process which you take to create something. Photoshop is nothing but a tool.

Edit: Focus now and not look too much ahead of you. Anyway, I've had enough of talking in this thread ...
fair enough, thanks for talking in this thread so far, its been a big help..

reality of design aye.. maybe i should just do nursing for the sake of its high job prospects along side rewarding-ness...
 

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It's difficult and the facts like to speak for themselves but what separates us is choice. For most people who choose Design, it's not necessarily about the reality of what's going to happen. If you still maintain or desire some sort of geninue interest, then everything else will work out and you will find a way to do so.

Everything has its rewards and for me, choosing Design was about seeing where I would be in 10 years time. Literally in an office with a small desk or be part of a studio or agency with good people/new people. It's challenging but if you want it that badly...
 

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Just study hard and achieve high results and then apply =)Study hard and achieve a high uai and apply. It's the easiest way in.

Or study hard at your uni and achieve a distinction average or more and you will have a better chance at getting in. :)
 
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grue

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This thread was really useful for me. I was also worried that it might not be possible to transfer from UWS to UTS.. All I can do now is work my ass off to get that distinction average, write a good personal statement and do well in the interview in the coming year.

s1mplykat said:
hahahahah.. well im australian! that is afterall, what it says on my passport.. =P but yeah, im of asian background..

thank u for the advice.. i'll be sure to keep that in mind.. =]
And here I thought I was the only Asian to fail miserably (academically) and is stuck at Penrith. :D

But seriously, like hellomike mentioned, everything has its own rewards. Even though it's competitive it doesn't have to end there, you have the whole world! There's been a couple of Asians studying design in Australia and then returning back to their 'parental' country to work in the industry. If it's not in demand in Australia, there'll be other places that you can apply to for a job. Besides, you never know what it's going to be like in the future; perhaps it will be less competitive, perhaps not.

If this is something that you really want to do, perhaps that once you get into the course (or after a couple of months or even years into the course) you will begin to develop the proper mindset of trying to seperate yourself from the other 'designers'.
 

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You just need to set a goal or an ambition because if you want to study Design than you need to feel motivated to do so or else you might feel left behind. You can't say that you want to be a designer because you want to use the adobe applications. It isn't what the lectuerers or tutors are looking for. For me, if I can change how people perceive this in little ways then that is what gives me that drive to work tommorow.
 

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Hey Grue,
dw i thought i was the only asian studying viss comm in uws too, but i den i realised i wasnt the only one lol
actually, im in the same position as u, except im prob worse coz i live in the city but i gotta travel 1 hour each day to penrith.. dats why i gotta work very hard to transfer to uts
 

grue

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vick1_zha0 said:
Hey Grue,
dw i thought i was the only asian studying viss comm in uws too, but i den i realised i wasnt the only one lol
actually, im in the same position as u, except im prob worse coz i live in the city but i gotta travel 1 hour each day to penrith.. dats why i gotta work very hard to transfer to uts
Are you, by chance, M? I'm judging it by your avatar haha.

Edit: Oh shit, you are M!!! HEY!!!! XD
 
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s1mplykat

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vick1_zha0 said:
Hey Grue,
dw i thought i was the only asian studying viss comm in uws too, but i den i realised i wasnt the only one lol
actually, im in the same position as u, except im prob worse coz i live in the city but i gotta travel 1 hour each day to penrith.. dats why i gotta work very hard to transfer to uts
hey vick1_zha0, i live next to the city, in Randwick. so its gonna take me up to 2 hours to travel, i roughly timed it when i went to the academic advisory day.

and *uhem* btw Grue, i wouldnt say 65 uai is an acdemic misrable fail... reguardless of what my backgroud nationailty is.
 

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s1mplykat said:
and *uhem* btw Grue, i wouldnt say 65 uai is an acdemic misrable fail... reguardless of what my backgroud nationailty is.
I hope you didn't take that particular sentence too seriously, 'cause that was what the :D smiley was for.
 

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well everyone has a possiblity of getting a transfer, except that its EXTREMELY competitive.
You have the ones coming in with the high UAIs from high school and then many others from private schools etc
Also your peers at UWS all trying it out when there are only 10~15 non current school leaver positions :mad1:

Also, ignore Netstar's comment on not needing a DEGREE to get into Design.
Honestly, I'm sorry but your comments are ignorant and rather unwarranted with very little factual evidences.

I have some strong backing for my point and here it goes.

This is directly from Design Institute of Australia. (DIA)

What do employers expect?
Some employers will be satisfied with the training offered by the shorter courses but employers who apply more formal assessment of applicants prior to hiring are likely to place importance on the apparently more substantial degree qualification.

There are large numbers of graduates in all disciplines so an employer who advertises a job position will generally receive a large number of applications. Many employers, and particularly those in design consultancies, are likely to use level and duration of design education as one of the ways to reduce the list of applicants down to a manageable short list to interview. So if design is your chosen career, striving to get into and complete a degree is the surest way to start.

In keeping with professional training currently available the DIA recommends four years of tertiary design training to degree level.

http://www.dia.org.au/content.cfm?id=112

Not to mention, you don't even qualify to the professional designer membership of Australia given out by DIA with a tafe diploma.

If DIA (The professional body for designers in Australia) is strongly recommending a 4 yrs DEGREE in Design, who is Netstar or anybody for that matter to suggest 'you don't need a degree from uni to get into design.'

So yes... It would be wise to strive to the highest level of design to be a sucessful designer in the future and survive in this competitive industry.
 
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grue

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msh said:
well everyone has a possiblity of getting a transfer, except that its EXTREMELY competitive.
You have the ones coming in with the high UAIs from high school and then many others from private schools etc
Also your peers at UWS all trying it out when there are only 10~15 non current school leaver positions :mad1:

Also, ignore Netstar's comment on not needing a DEGREE to get into Design.
Honestly, I'm sorry but your comments are ignorant and rather unwarranted with very little factual evidences.

I have some strong backing for my point and here it goes.

This is directly from Design Institute of Australia. (DIA)

What do employers expect?
Some employers will be satisfied with the training offered by the shorter courses but employers who apply more formal assessment of applicants prior to hiring are likely to place importance on the apparently more substantial degree qualification.

There are large numbers of graduates in all disciplines so an employer who advertises a job position will generally receive a large number of applications. Many employers, and particularly those in design consultancies, are likely to use level and duration of design education as one of the ways to reduce the list of applicants down to a manageable short list to interview. So if design is your chosen career, striving to get into and complete a degree is the surest way to start.

In keeping with professional training currently available the DIA recommends four years of tertiary design training to degree level.

http://www.dia.org.au/content.cfm?id=112

Not to mention, you don't even qualify to the professional designer membership of Australia given out by DIA with a tafe diploma.

If DIA (The professional body for designers in Australia) is strongly recommending a 4 yrs DEGREE in Design, who is Netstar or anybody for that matter to suggest 'you don't need a degree from uni to get into design.'

So yes... It would be wise to strive to the highest level of design to be a sucessful designer in the future and survive in this competitive industry.
That is true. While I was out job hunting, I noticed that many companies require you to have a related degree to the industry plus atleast one year experience in a studio, which becomes impossible because of said degree requirement. Le sigh.

So now I'm stuck in an office job than a studio. :mad1:
 

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Many of the more established studios or agencies would require people going for job positions to have at least one year or those such as Pentagram, 3 years or more. It also depends on you because the work you do you will want to continue doing within a studio or company that fits your discipline and skills. Though on the contrary, you don't have to have a degree in design and I know from established designers I know, they spent years and got top grades when once you get into the industry they want to see your work, what you can do for them.

One of the most important things that I have read and agree with is:

"Design is much more than the ability to draw. A great deal of a professional designer's time is spent specifying and documenting things for manufacture, construction and printing. Design requires attention to technical detail, a great deal of person to person consultation and communication, and a great deal of administration.
Design embodies the full range of problem solving skills from those that are strictly rational, analytical and objective, to those that are inspirational, artistic and subjective.
Do you think you'll enjoy the technical, administrative and communication parts of the job?"

and that is something you should realise. Australia's culture of design is still growing and is still maturing unlike Swiss/Scandinavian design. Although what the DIA is awfully true, if you still want a career in design that keep working hard. Networking is important and instead of trying to find work straight away, try and find internships and don't even limit yourself in Australia.

Wanting to study the programme at UTS is competitive but in general, having solid marks and a good statement will give you a chance not be make the interview but gaining an offer. CSP places will be filled first so obviously, HSC students will be given offers first. If you don't get an interview, you have already failed the process and applicants are down to 40 people for the interviews. How well you do in it as well as your work will be considered and given bonus points to. Ultimately, your academic merit is the most important because it's the best way for UTS to determine rank. So if you do well in achieving a Distinction average then you are set. The person who handles the admissions say a credit is good enough but even so, improving your chances more is better.

Reminder:

Selection for interview (with portfolio) will be based on the personal statement. Your application will be ranked based on the results of your academic qualifications, a score from your personal statement and your interview.

One thing I have realised about this is that it isn't the end of the world so if you still intend to study there, keep trying.
 
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