Question For the Smartest (1 Viewer)

rx72c

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This question is not so difficult but i argued with my teacher for like 2hours about it and did not come to a conclusion.
In which stage of the development cycle is it hardest and most expensive to find and correct errors and bugs in the system.
 

Huy

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the final stage.
 

Ragerunner

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I sure hope you were arguing for the final stage because even i know that and i don't do ipt :p

Which brings me to the question what am i diong in this forum? :D
 

grendel

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i think the question is quite difficult, but i would say the last stage of the system development cycle because it is definitely the most expensive.

if you happen to find an error after you have implemented the system then you have to reinitiate the development cycle to fix it which can be an expensive process...... time, labour, resources...etc..

with regards to difficulty in locating the errors i think it depends on the kind of error. hardware problems may be easy to identify in the last stage but software issues may be very difficult to identify.
 

Huy

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Originally posted by grendel
hardware problems may be easy to identify in the last stage but software issues may be very difficult to identify.
In which stage of the development cycle is it hardest and most expensive to find and correct errors and bugs in the system.

Definately the last stage, as you have correctly stated.

What did your teacher say was the stage which was the most expensive/hardest to find errors? Implementing?

It would definately be testing, evaluating and maintaining, but between Designing Solutions and Implementing, there are processes involved which do not reveal errors until it is too late (Implementing).

The most expensive is definately the final stage, just after using the system and discovering new bugs/errors.
 

rx72c

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He insisted it was implementation, i said it was testing, i dont know if any of use remebered but there was a question in the CSSA about it, if im right or maybe last years CSSA.
 

Huy

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Originally posted by rx72c
He insisted it was implementation, i said it was testing, i dont know if any of use remebered but there was a question in the CSSA about it, if im right or maybe last years CSSA.
I propose that this question be divided into 2 separate questions :D

1. In which stage of the SDLC is it the hardest to find errors in the system?

2. In which stage of the SDLC is it the most expensive to find errors in the system?

Answer to 1: Implementing
Answer to 2: Testing, evaluating and maintaining.

With implementing, you are delivering the system (which was designed in 'Designing Solutions') to the participants. You really don't know if the solution will solve the problem or not (in the most efficient manner, or rather in the correct manner even!).

Implementing a solution will always change the way the organisation operates, so if the solution isn't working as specified/designed/envisaged, then of course, it will be the most expensive to correct such problems/errors, but to ensure that this doesn't happen, it has to be carefully planned (See Understanding the Problem, Making Decisions, Designing Solutions - the previous stages).

If the project has a "good" implementation plan, then it'll cover participant training, conversion method, and system testing, at which point all of the forseeable errors can be detected (dummy data, testing stages, participant training). That way, system testing (during Implementation) will be able to test hardware and software.

It is important to note that without rigorous testing, the system cannot be guaranteed to work as expected. Tests should then be designed to cover all possible scenarios/events/situations, so hardware must be tested using diagnostic software, general operation, backup systems in place, software is to be tested using all possible decisions/actions, test data is entered to cover all situations and changes made to fix such problems.

You could argue it any way you like, but they shouldn't include hardest and most expensive in the same sentence, next to each other, because at various stages, it could be the most expensive (say the Final stage), but it may not be the hardest stage to detect all possible errors, because in the final stage, the system is tested against the original specifications and so on, so it would be 'easier' to detect errors then, but at a cost (expense).

However, detecting errors earlier could result in lowering any expenditures, so then you can say that the most expensive stage in this case, is in the final stage, but throughout this post, I have argued for final and implementation stages.

Oh well, it depends on the situation, but strictly speaking, it should be the final stage that is the most expensive, and it is the implementation stage that is the hardest to detect all errors :)
 

grendel

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i have a problem with the word "hardest". how do you quantify it??

most time consuming?
most disruptive to the devlopment of the system?
most disruptive to the organisation that is using the system?

the question firstly needs to placed into a context so that you have the opportunity to provide an insight, otherwise you could pretty much argue what ever you want and still get the marks.
 

Huy

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Originally posted by grendel
i have a problem with the word "hardest". how do you quantify it??
The way I understand it:

Hardest: "The most difficult to detect errors"
Expensive: "The most costly"

But you are correct, I think that the marking guideline will allow for ANY answer, as long as it is substantiated and logical.

I remember reading one of the CSSA marking criterias which allowed for a few answers, which contradicted each other, however if the student has explained why, in a logical and substantiated fashion, then he/she will be awarded the marks.

:)
 

rx72c

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Ok, im certain its testing, evaluating and maintaining.
You cannot detect errors in implementing as the system is being setup and hasnt even started operating so no errors can be made. So all the errors will be detected in the Testing evaluating and maintaining. It is a matter of fact the only time you can detect errors and therefore the only time it will cost anything to fix that error. When i talk about errors i mean bugs in the system.

This question is quite large for a multiple choice question but most likely its testing evaluating and maintaining because if the system has errors the whole system development cycle has to be started all over making it hard and expensive.
 

Huy

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Originally posted by rx72c
You cannot detect errors in implementing as the system is being setup and hasnt even started operating so no errors can be made.
"The implementation stage developers the new system to the participants. It involves using the solution to solve the problem.

During the Implementation stage, you will also undertake System Testing. This is completely different to Testing, Evaluating and Maintaining.

This is the distinction you have to make:
Testing, evaluating and maintaining expects that the new system has already been fully implemented. And I quote from the textbook: "Participants expect the system to be working correctly. The successful operation of a system involves the information technology working correctly and the participants using it effectively". Testing a solution ensures that it works. So now, you cannot say that the final stage is the most difficult, but it can be the most expensive (do you see what I'm saying here, though?).

The performance of the system, that is, the efficiency of the system is tested in the final stage. Following testing comes the evaluation, whereby a determination is made as to whether or not the system is working as required. Therefore, this is after the system has been established (working), with "minor problems being fixed" (Quote from Heinemann).

Getting back to the above, that I have quoted from you. You can detect errors in implementation, because that is covered completely in 'System Testing'. It is true that the system is being set-up, but if what you are saying is correct, (that is, the system has started operating, so no errors can be made), then how are the participants going to be trained? ;)

I'll finish this off with System Testing, which is a process that occurs during Implementation.

System Testing
Testing a system is a very important part of the implementation of a system. Without rigours testing, the system cannot be guaranteed to work as expected (ie harder to detect errors, more expensive to re-test and so on). Tests must be designed to examine the system operation under all possible events. It is necessary to test both the information technology and the information processes.

* Hardware is tested using diagnostic software and through general operation. Backup systems should be tested by selecting files to be restored.

* Software is tested using data that has been structured to test all decisions made within the system. This test data must cover all possible combinations of data that may be encountered. It should be based on the original design specifications.

* Information processes are continually tested during the Implementation of the system over a period of time. Minor changes to procedures are immediately implemented.

but most likely its testing evaluating and maintaining because if the system has errors the whole system development cycle has to be started all over making it hard and expensive.[/B]
It makes it expensive, but it doesn't make it any harder to detect errors. The question asked for errors in detection and at which stage is it the most expensive. You are correct when you say that the most expensive is during testing, as a new System Development Life-Cycle is required, but if it is 'easier' to detect errors in the final stages (namely Testing), then how could it also be the hardest stage in which to detect errors (ie bugs).


I go back to my proposal (above), divide the question into two, or get rid of one of the terms, ie:

1. When is it the most difficult to detect errors?
2. When is it the most expensive to correct problems?

Either way, anybody could argue for A, and the rest of the people could argue for B, as long as you have an answer, supported by logical statements, then you will get the marks.

I have seen past trial papers where examiners cannot agree on Multiple Choice questions so they have answers like:

"A or C"
"Remark Multiple choice"
and so on :)


Back later, gone to watch the news :)
 

rx72c

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Yeh thats right, System testing. So in all im gona say this is one shit question and can have two different answers so in this sense both answers should be correct.
 

Huy

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Originally posted by rx72c
so in this sense both answers should be correct.
Yep, that's what I was saying earlier about the CSSA trial exam, sometimes if a question has two "equally" correct answers, and I don't mean "one is more correct than the other", but they are BOTH correct, then they will accept both answers, because the markers will probably say to themselves: "Hey, if this student gets 1 mark extra, it wont make that much of a difference when the rest of the IPT candidature get the same +1 'bonus' mark"

And of course, you'll be losing marks all over the place so the multiple choice Q will offset any other marks lost in other areas (unless you are getting 100% for everything, then you'd have a reason to complain haha :p :p)
 

rx72c

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Thats why i was complaining, i only lost 6 marks in the written section, that can be improved so easily.
But multiple choice killed me, 14 marks .
 

Huy

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First off, congratulations on only losing 6 marks, that's an outstanding achievement IMO! :)

I would be complaining too if I lost more than 5 marks in the multiple choice section, because Ive got my own expectations of getting 16+ or so, in the worst case scenario it would be 15/20, typically 16-17 range, if not more (depends how lucky I am hehe).

There's another thread in the IPT forum about how to effectively use your time in terms of the Multiple Choice section, because someone was only spending 5 minutes and getting 6/20 or something like that.

You might like to have a read of that :)

/edit just 2 more posts until 2400 hehe!!
 

Huy

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Originally posted by rx72c
By da way HUY, if you saw the creator of that thread, hehe THAT WAS ME.
LOL!

It must have gone straight over my head... I had a feeling it was you :)

Sorry, rx72c. :)
 

Huy

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Originally posted by rx72c
No worries, just pointing it out.
Oh yeh sorry bout the caps once more, Huy.
That's okay, :)

It's just that I've never had anyone type it in 'complete' capitals before, so I thought it strange (somehow).

Huy would be great thanks rx72c,

:)
 

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