Rate the MQ economics degree. (1 Viewer)

gnrlies

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BackCountrySnow said:
I went to macquarie library today and looked at some economics textbooks.
The introductory micro and macro textbooks were quite straight forward.

But when I flicked throught the intermediate textbooks there were so many formulas.

Every page had all these complex curves and equations on it.

How big is the leap between intro and intermediate economics?
I think that whilst the HSC course is a reasonable enough course for someone who will never study economics ever again, it is not a good introduction for someone who would be looking to study it at university. The HSC course contains zero microeconomics which is unfortunate. Subsequently many students may find the microeconomic courses quite challenging as there is a significant mathematical component to microeconomics.

First year microeconomics is mainly focussed on market structures, cost curves and other basic economic questions. This stuff may seem difficult upon first glance, but it is not so hard once it has been looked at appropriately. Intermediate microeconomics is primarily about the decision making processes of economic agents. Primarly to do with maximising utility given a budget constraint, and then considering different alternatives. There is some calculus involved and it is a bit harder than first year economics, but so long as you can conceptualise and understand the mathematics (i.e. know why it is the equation is constructed the way it is) the rest follows.

When you go into third year you don't do an equivalent "advanced microeconomics" but you will do a subject called industrial organisation. This applies a broader approach incorporating a number of different approaches to solve real world problems. It is not about applying a mathematical model, or using a diagram to explain the way the world works, it is about looking at cause and effect, and incentives. It has a particular focus on contract making and although it is often the most challenging unit in terms of obtaining a high mark, it is often more enjoyable because it takes a step back from the mathematical approach taken in previous years.

the HSC course will help in Macroeconomics up until the IS-LM curve. Beyond that it will not be particularly helpfull. Some of the more basic Keynesian theory will also be explored to an extent well beyond HSC economics. Macroeconomics by nature is a lot harder to teach than microeconomics because a narrow focus is hard to take. Subsequently you will learn about many different topics and theories but specialise in none. This can be annoying from an intellectual stand point, but then again it allows you to taste everything so you know where your interests lie. Intermediate macroeconomics is probably not too dis-similar to first year apart from the fact that concepts are explored in more depth.

Again in third year you will do a subject that takes a step back from the theory and looks at the practical applications of macroeconomic policy. Here you will learn many different approaches to macroeconomic policy, and examine what happens in the real world. For this reason it is by far the most interesting of the macroeconomic based subjects.

But just to make something clear. Doing economics at uni is mainly about doing crappy subjects to give you a grounding in economics, but more importantly to teach you the practical skills that an economist needs, and how to think like an economist. You dont sit there and work out using calculus the point of tangency between a uility curve and a budget constraint because it is a particularly meaningful thing to do; you do this because it will shape the way you go about solving problems.
 

sja

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There are a LOT of poor teachers in the EFS department. I am a second year applied finance & economics student and I can tell you this first hand.

They do not know how to tap into the learning level of students. They are way too smart for their own teaching good. Most teachers have a PHD and simply brush over things which are insanely easy for them and forget that kids do not live, breathe and only think about their own little subject.

Oh and let's not forget how insanely hard most of the exams are. Macquarie's final exams are so difficult beyond reason. I mean, come on... do you think international students with no clue of English are going to learn better now that the exam is harder? No, they'll just pay more.

I can tell you first hand, don't listen to your lecturers when they say what's going to be in the exam. I have heard MANY lecturers say "This thing is 100% guarenteed to be in the exam. I shouldn't be telling you this but..."

and guess what? The exam is COMPLETELY UNLIKE IT. In fact, the practice that you get for most subjects is only 5-10% like the final exam.

Take this from someone on a 3.0 GPA.
 

BackCountrySnow

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Hey, thanks for your input. =]

sja said:
There are a LOT of poor teachers in the EFS department. I am a second year applied finance & economics student and I can tell you this first hand.

They do not know how to tap into the learning level of students. They are way too smart for their own teaching good. Most teachers have a PHD and simply brush over things which are insanely easy for them and forget that kids do not live, breathe and only think about their own little subject.
I've never been to a university lecture so I don't know what to expect at all. Would you say macquarie is unique in that the teachers can't tap into the learning of students?
Because I'd imagine that most universities have heaps of lecturers with PHDs.

Oh and let's not forget how insanely hard most of the exams are. Macquarie's final exams are so difficult beyond reason. I mean, come on... do you think international students with no clue of English are going to learn better now that the exam is harder? No, they'll just pay more.

I can tell you first hand, don't listen to your lecturers when they say what's going to be in the exam. I have heard MANY lecturers say "This thing is 100% guarenteed to be in the exam. I shouldn't be telling you this but..."

and guess what? The exam is COMPLETELY UNLIKE IT. In fact, the practice that you get for most subjects is only 5-10% like the final exam.
Do you mean that it's much harder than other university finals?
Or that it's too hard for the students at the uni since there are so many internationals?

Take this from someone on a 3.0 GPA.
is that a D average?
 

Tabris

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BackCountrySnow said:
is that a D average?
Thats a Credit average.

2 = Pass average
3 = Credit average
4= Distinction average (or HD average, MQ doesnt see the distinction betwen D and HD for GPA)

By the time you finished 3rd year core, you will be thinking like an economist, not in terms of throwing formulae but analysing policies. You will understand stuff like carbon trading, reserve bank policies and why the average joe has nfi why his house is getting repo'ed. You will basically understand the rationale (or irrationale reason) of any government policy or business policy, that you will see reported in the papers.


Unfortunately what they dont teach is economic history and contending perspectives. its possible that you won't even understand or know Adam Smith, Karl Marx and the importance of moder thinkers like F. von Hayek or Milton Friedman, libertariansm, utilitariansm, communism etc.
 

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Tabris said:
Unfortunately what they dont teach is economic history and contending perspectives. its possible that you won't even understand or know Adam Smith, Karl Marx and the importance of moder thinkers like F. von Hayek or Milton Friedman, libertariansm, utilitariansm, communism etc.
that's a shame. I know at ANU they require you to do atleast one economic history elective in order to complete the economics major.

What is all this talk about the majors at macquarie being different? Something about only being able to complete one major...
 

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BackCountrySnow said:
I went to macquarie library today and looked at some economics textbooks.
The introductory micro and macro textbooks were quite straight forward.

But when I flicked throught the intermediate textbooks there were so many formulas.

Every page had all these complex curves and equations on it.

How big is the leap between intro and intermediate economics?
intro microeconomics => this is the demand/supply curve. use it, don't ask questions and STFU.
intermediate microeconomics => this is how the demand/supply curve is derived.

(eg. intermediate goes into more detail, explains WHY but in terms of introducing new concepts, it doesn't really (except maybe welfare economics and choice/uncertainty))
 

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I'm sorry if I appear to be so harsh. I just wish someone would have helped me out in my first year with these expectations for university...

I think most people want the title of being an economist because they did some university subjects on it and suddenly want to be experts. You can see someone who is an Actuary, or an Accountant, or a Financial Manager... but I think only a few people write some amazing material worthing of being classed as Economists.

Ross Gittins, for example.
 

gnrlies

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Tabris said:
Unfortunately what they dont teach is economic history and contending perspectives. its possible that you won't even understand or know Adam Smith, Karl Marx and the importance of moder thinkers like F. von Hayek or Milton Friedman, libertariansm, utilitariansm, communism etc.

Thats not true.

Threres at least three units that deal with these issues. For sure, HET aint compulsory, but if you're into friedman you would value being able to be "free to choose"
 

gnrlies

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sja said:
I'm sorry if I appear to be so harsh. I just wish someone would have helped me out in my first year with these expectations for university...

I think most people want the title of being an economist because they did some university subjects on it and suddenly want to be experts. You can see someone who is an Actuary, or an Accountant, or a Financial Manager... but I think only a few people write some amazing material worthing of being classed as Economists.

Ross Gittins, for example.

All first year subjects are like this. They have like 1000 students and they dont have the staff to appropriately teach it, so they use honours students etc. second and third year units get better, and I personally think the economics division stands out within the efs division (as being of a higher quality than say the accounting division).

And if you think Ross Gittins writes "amazing material" im starting to get worried about your perceptions of what an economics degree is all about.
 

sja

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gnrlies said:
All first year subjects are like this. They have like 1000 students and they dont have the staff to appropriately teach it, so they use honours students etc. second and third year units get better, and I personally think the economics division stands out within the efs division (as being of a higher quality than say the accounting division).

And if you think Ross Gittins writes "amazing material" im starting to get worried about your perceptions of what an economics degree is all about.
He's only been the editor of the Economics section in the Herald for 30 years.
 

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His audience is the general public so he can't go too deep into economics because a lott of his readers won't understand.
 

gnrlies

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sja said:
He's only been the editor of the Economics section in the Herald for 30 years.
thats kind of the point. He's a journalist not an economist...

The fact that you identify him above all other writers in the field is kind of laughable.
 

Tabris

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Gittins is basically the middle man explaining the economics for the average joe blow who knows jack shit about economics.

Theres heaps of names and seminal works taht you wont see or hear till 3rd year, unfortunately MQ does not have political economy unit like USYD to give some contextual work.
 

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Tabris said:
By the time you finished 3rd year core, you will be thinking like an economist, not in terms of throwing formulae but analysing policies. You will understand stuff like carbon trading, reserve bank policies and why the average joe has nfi why his house is getting repo'ed. You will basically understand the rationale (or irrationale reason) of any government policy or business policy, that you will see reported in the papers.
sweet.

Does Macquarie stick to a syllabus like in highschool?
 

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BackCountrySnow said:
Does Macquarie stick to a syllabus like in highschool?
You mean syllabus dot points like the HSC? Then no, I'm quite certain no uni would give you a set of dot points and follow them as stringently as they don in the HSC. The whole point of uni is to learn stuff rather than to just memorise and regurgitate it in final exams like in the HSC, imo.
 

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So how do you know what you need to learn, is it all in one textbook?

Also, what's all the talk about EFS students only being able to have one major?

thanks guys =]
 
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They give you a unit outline at the beginning of the semester and that basically tells you the topics that will be learnt. That's about it, no specifics or anything.

Im not sure about your other question. EFS is just the economics and finance studies which is the commerce degrees at macq, which I'm pretty sure you can do more than one major
 

BackCountrySnow

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oh thanks a lot for your responses guys.
Could someone please upload the unit outline for first year micro n macro just so i can see what it's like?

=]
 

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