Removal of English as a REQUIRED subject. (1 Viewer)

[sneaky pete]

You have a point there.
English should be compulsory, I mean otherwise we'd have a whole generation lacking knowledge of shakespeare, james, woolf etc - it's necessary in order to further our culture.

I was hoping that was sarcasm but unfortunately I was unable to detect any.
How on Earth is reading a few random plays in broken English from the 16th century even vaguely necessary to 'further our culture'?
I actually did enjoy reading a many genres of novels before commencing my hsc studies, but being forced to read some of the utter nonsense that were our prescibed texts, I haven't even touched a non-academic book since. I've totally lost interest in books since completing my hsc.

Making this stupid course (in it's current format) compulsory to complete is one thing, but having it obligatory in order to recieve a UAI is beyond comprehensible.

 

[malkin86]

I was hoping that was sarcasm but unfortunately I was unable to detect any.
How on Earth is reading a few random plays in broken English from the 16th century even vaguely necessary to 'further our culture'?
I actually did enjoy reading a many genres of novels before commencing my hsc studies, but being forced to read some of the utter nonsense that were our prescibed texts, I haven't even touched a non-academic book since. I've totally lost interest in books since completing my hsc.

Making this stupid course (in it's current format) compulsory to complete is one thing, but having it obligatory in order to recieve a UAI is beyond comprehensible.

I'm finding the same.. I'm not reading nearly as much, as widely or at the same level as I used to, now I'd prefer trashy stuff cause I'm turned off the 'classics'.

 

[lukebennett]

I think that english should be compulsory, but i dont think it should have to be counted for UAI. Some courses at uni should have a prerequisite or something that says you need at least a band 4 or something like that to be allowed into the course. that should stop people from slacking off. courses that require mid to high 90s should have a minimum of band 5 i think.

 

[sneaky pete]

Why should even an elementary knowledge of 'how different productions dramatise the struggle between chaos and order in King Lear' be a prerequisite of university study?

 

[jm1234567890]

lol, i didn't expect the votes to be so close....

 

[santaslayer]

lol, i didn't expect the votes to be so close....

I havent voted!


*goes and votes*.

 

[Scanorama]

English is a bullshit subject (at its current format). How on earth does reading Peter Skrzyneck's poetry, Strictly Ballroom, The Shoe-Horn Sonata and Raw related to University studies, TAFE or even jobs? It's not like an employer will ask people write a essay during interview or University will ask students to write a essay related to the text prior to enrolment. Being able to analyse and identify the techniques used in a variety of texts do not help you to get a good job, or even help your study in University/TAFE. I can't see study of English will improve our English at its current format skills in any way, let alone 'further our culture' - bullshit from Board of Studies.

I actually enjoyed doing English until Year 10. But now, I hate it. I don't read as much as I did before. They should change the course structure from studying bullshit to study something actually useful for our life. Examples are teaching us how to write letter, resume, gramma, punctuation etc.

Right now, I disagree for making English compulsory and count towards the UAI. When will the whole bullshit Engllish will end?

 

[Estel]

In regards to above post: one would hope that by Yr 11 and 12 some command of the English language would have been mastered; it's only fair they have some assumed knowledge, and go from there.
It's a bit like saying mathematics should be all basic, teaching arithmetic and multiplications tables, because that's what's going to help us in life.

Gough: history, English, linguistics, medicine and teaching are five examples of careers where the subject is useful for tertiary study, and I'm sure there are many more.

Gressie: Why is the current English syllabus relevant... could it be because the ability to synthesise is an important skill in many fields/a good personal skill? Could it be because the ability to comment or critically analyse is relevant? Is it because creative writing skills are important? Just because society has gone low, it doesn't follow that the syllabus should plumb the depths of linguistic depravity. I would argue that the English syllabus has gone "downmarket" enough to suit the needs of everyone.
English = relevant to everyone.
Higher level mathematics = relevant to those studying further.

But I won't argue about your points regarding mathematics; I'd like to see both compulsory.

 

[christ_ine]

I don't think having it as a compulsory and counted subject is bad at all. There are enough people out there who have shocking grammar and spelling, let alone these people continuing into university lacking such skills.

 

[sneaky pete]

Gough: history, English, linguistics, medicine and teaching are five examples of careers where the subject is useful for tertiary study, and I'm sure there are many more.

Yes.. And Maths/Phys/Chem is relevant to students studying engineering/science upon entering tertiary education.
Anc/Mod/Ext1 History is relevant to those studying Arts/History in tert. ed
Year 10 commerce, hsc business studies, eco is relevant to those studying commerce/business/eco once they reach tertiary ed.
And Yes, you are correct, English may very well be relevant to linguistics, teaching, etc

How on Earth does that justify making one of them compulsory and the rest not?

I think the current business studies hsc course, with a good teacher who pushes the limits of the syllabus, is one of the most beneficial to students leaving year 12 (in the context of life skills, tax, small business success/failure, marketing techniques we see everyday, it's a damn shame they scrapped 3unit busienss studies..
I do NOT however see any need to force students to take it

Gressie: Why is the current English syllabus relevant... could it be because the ability to synthesise is an important skill in many fields/a good personal skill? Could it be because the ability to comment or critically analyse is relevant? Is it because creative writing skills are important? Just because society has gone low, it doesn't follow that the syllabus should plumb the depths of linguistic depravity. I would argue that the English syllabus has gone "downmarket" enough to suit the needs of everyone.

Just because 'critically analyze' and 'creative writing' are in the syllabus does not mean students actually come away from the course with these 'skills'!
I assure you I now have the ability to critically analyze scientific journals and publications, which comes from a few years to tertiary experience, and NOT from completing the advanced english hsc course.

Honestly, it would be nice if everyone came away from the course with an ability to critically analyze a given text and apply high level thiking to break it down, but it just doesn't happen

But I won't argue about your points regarding mathematics; I'd like to see both compulsory.

Well the ONLY thing I would like to see compulsory is a minimum of 10 units of credit.

I don't think having it as a compulsory and counted subject is bad at all. There are enough people out there who have shocking grammar and spelling, let alone these people continuing into university lacking such skills.

Thus proving how much of a success the current hsc course is!
(re my above post)

 

[Li0n]

Just because 'critically analyze' and 'creative writing' are in the syllabus does not mean students actually come away from the course with these 'skills'!
I assure you I now have the ability to critically analyze scientific journals and publications, which comes from a few years to tertiary experience, and NOT from completing the advanced english hsc course.

since when in the hell do you analyse scientific journals? I read them, then take the information i get from reading it and wala! ^_^

analysing texts in english is understanding why the hell texts are so important and recognised everywhere, and why a fob like me (jk i swear ) will never be able to write something that everyone can appreciate.

its unfair for people who are considering arts subjects to have to do maths, since it will bog them down majorly (apart from the fact of hating it), just as it is unfair for people who want to do science and will get bogged down doing english. But either way its important!!! VERY IMPORTANT KEKEKEKEK

English 1 : This thread 0
:'(

 

[spaz1810]

If the English content covered was actually useful; ie Letter writing, grammar, punctuation, essay writing (just one), resume writing, e-mail, etc, It would be great, and a course like this should be compulsory.

i agree completely... the reason english is compulsory is to make sure that everyone going into the workplace is competant in the language - however the topics covered in 2u compulsory english are of no relevance at all; we're expected to write in all the text types without having ever been taught about them, defeating the entire purpose of the subject

 

[prets75]

yess

i know english is compulsary and it is good that way. im not much of an english fan either but yeh i think it shud be a subject that shud be done. i think at least 1 unit of english shud count so it encourages people to actually do well in it and not only do it for the sake of it

 

[malkin86]

For all the non-compulsary-English supporters, if you could make your own English syllabus, what would it look like?

 

[#4]

If you ask me, they should get rid of English as the compulsory subject and form a whole *new* subject that incorporates things you actually need in life. Understanding the English language is, of course, necessary.. but I don't think deconstructing a text or analysing certain techniques used in a poem is vital for our survival.

It strikes me as odd that English teaches you how to write a 6-page essay on "Emma", General Maths teaches you the fundamentals of taxation... and English is the "fundamental" subject. Rather odd indeed.

I think honky tonk has summed it up perfectly. How the hell does writing about bullshit like techniques in poetry increase our communication skills. If u enjoy that then fine but why make it compulsory, its not essential. Some may argue it discriminates against mathematically orientated people.

 

[praise897]

woops i voted wrong...i think we should have english, we're an english speaking country- communication and language abilities need to be established and improved for people to function effectively within our society.

 

[waterfowl]

I think it is important to have English as a compulsory subject. If it wasn't then many people would not take it and would most likely start writing letters and resumes like they are smsing someone:
"Ima very gd wrker, neva l8, & wrk well with ppl"
People are already becoming very lazy when it comes to writing, and it would only get worse.

And anyway you should be grateful only English is compulsory - in some countries there are only compulsory subjects and students are forced to do English, their own language, Latin, Biology etc etc

 

[fantasia]

yes its important for any job. although studying about skrzynecki, king lear or whatever doesnt look like it'll be much use, its the practical component which is important; expressing ideas, speaking, writing, listening.

especially for the higher end jobs. english is compulsory otherwise people who are really good at maths, physics, chem, bio etc will all become doctors, but they wont have any english. In this case a fob can become a doctor, it'll make it really hard to understand and communicate.

you need english for every job thats around. you need to be able communicate, express ideas, write, speak, analyse.. skills which are pertinent for any job. and since we live in an english speaking society, it would be good to know at least some english.

 

[matt_f64]

i think that they shud keep english as a requirement... only because i just had to do 2 bloody years of the crap, and i did 2 CRAP exams... so if i have to do it, everyone else to follow me has to suffer! muahhahaha

 

[Danoz The Great]

Re: gressie

Why should even an elementary knowledge of 'how different productions dramatise the struggle between chaos and order in King Lear' be a prerequisite of university study?

So true. Shakespeare's crap, it's old-fashioned and he makes up words!

I do standard english, and I suppose it isn't TOO difficult, but I feel that you should have to english, but it doesn't have to necessarily count towards your UAI. I'd feel much better knowing that my UAI is going to be shithouse because of that.

What's the big deal about english being necessary for real life anyway? I can talk english fluently, read english well, and I can write pretty good essays too. I think that's all that you need!

However, there's plenty of people I work with (Target), who are part-timers, and still can't do simple maths! If this is the case, then shouldn't maths be as 'essential' as english?