Roman Catholicism (2 Viewers)

[Rafy]

Re: Roman Catholisisim

To clarify, the 3rd line in my previous post describes my view of what the church in the vatican considers their congregation to be (Even though they may not admitt it and indeed have come to believe their own 'lie'). They certainly act like it. The drivel eminating from the mouthpieces in the vatican is little more than spiritually hollow dogma.

In practice there are many among the faith who privately question vatican policy. However, if you tried to speak out directly against the pope, you'd be excommunicated. There is little scope for questioning the 'will of god' (Read: Will of the pope) at the upper levels of the church.

Organised religion in general is unnessecary in my view. Why do people need to be arbitarily told how to worship a supreme being? I would have thought a much closer spiritual bond would develop if that was something you did yourself.

 

[philly17]

I'm a devout Roman Catholic and basically some answers to your qus are as follows... There is no one that can dictate what is the one true religion every religion mostly believe they are the one true one its a personal thing to determine.

Mary is the mother God as she was the chosen mother of Jesus, we believe she was born without sin as she was chosen to be the mother of God therefore was a pure vessel. She is the eternal pure virgin and mother, our mother in heaven, we believe she acts as a guide an intercession. If we pray to Mary it is for extra support and guidance like you would to a mother she intercedes for us to God. This is also similar in regards to praying to saints for particular intentions they act as intercessions for us. We dont worship Mary or the Saints we simply seek guidance.

The whole laying of the hands and thing i'm unsure what u mean, we do the sign of the cross and shake hands in mass for the sign of peace. Priests lay hands when doing blessings thats about it.

candles represent light, the light of christ they are lit in mass to represents Christs guiding light to us.

Catholics are Christian because we believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour the son of God our almighty creater. The Catholic Church is the oldest Christian Church as we were and still are the main Christian church. Do to fights, rebellions and schisms other denominations have been formed.

I think i answered everything best I could, hope it helped! studies of religion taught me hardly anything about Catholicism you need to get it from good family upbringing and solid Orthodox Catholic theology courses.

Oh and yeah cant wait till WYD 2008 ITS going to be SOOO cool!! my brothers have been to 3 they said it is the best experience ever!! hopefully it helps the Catholic youth of Australia grow in faith and community...

 

[walrusbear]

Re: Roman Catholisisim

To clarify, the 3rd line in my previous post describes my view of what the church in the vatican considers their congregation to be (Even though they may not admitt it and indeed have come to believe their own 'lie'). They certainly act like it. The drivel eminating from the mouthpieces in the vatican is little more than spiritually hollow dogma.

In practice there are many among the faith who privately question vatican policy. However, if you tried to speak out directly against the pope, you'd be excommunicated. There is little scope for questioning the 'will of god' (Read: Will of the pope) at the upper levels of the church.

Organised religion in general is unnessecary in my view. Why do people need to be arbitarily told how to worship a supreme being? I would have thought a much closer spiritual bond would develop if that was something you did yourself.

it's a double edged sword. the organisation is essential in keeping the community elements of faith strong (which is pretty important religions like judaism, christianity and islam). but of course when it comes down to moralistic judgement on contemporary issues there is going to be dispute amongst the church.
i think there's a difference between criticising the conservative agenda of the vatican and criticising the church as a body as 'spiritually-void'. most important to remember is that roman catholicism is diverse. nwatts said earlier that its 'roots in tradition' indicated a void of spirituality - which of course is nonsense. the church has existed for centuries and has changed endlessly throughout the period. even within the last 40 years, the progressive ideas behind Vatican II have shifted to the focus on dogmatic concerns emphasised by the conservative powers we see now.
i think you'll find that beneath the varied political agendas of the vatican, the church is defined as much by its people and there is of course room for interpretation and personal worship.

 

[erin_tonkin]

Re: Roman Catholisisim

You don't by chance go to Mackillop do you?

no i dont im not a catholic.
i go to the presbeterian school but i call myself a christian with no denomination. I believe in Jesus I read the bible and Im going to heaven. Denominations i do not like

 

[philly17]

believe in Jesus I read the bible and Im going to heaven

U cant assume from doing just those 2 things u are going to heaven no one can say they are definately going to heaven. God is the only judge and decider of that.

 

[philly17]

grow up and move on we are having a serious discussion its best u left

 

[erin_tonkin]

whoa leaving BoS is dangerous so many people post and i have to catch up.


DAVIN i'd think their view of the virgin mary doesn't make them "not christian" since the importance of mary is tied to jesus.

I agree yes christians believe in mary and she was the mother of God but christianity says that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that no one gets to the father except through him. If they say that you can get Mary to help with your salvation then they defy one of the main points of christianity that Jesus is all you need and are therefore not really christian. By the way that goes for anyone really. If their hearts are not set on Jesus alone for salvation then they are not christian. But in saying this I am not the one to judge as I sure as heck arnt perfect but christianity is a relationship with God made possible by jesus not by mary or the saints but by Jesus alone.

DAVIN i think you misinterpreted my post I was not saying those things about mary i was writing the catholic view

Mary gave birth to Christ without having known a man's touch - that's true.
But she did have a husband. And do you really think he'd have stayed
married to her all those years if he wasn't getting laid? The nature of God
and the Virgin Birth - those are leaps of faith. But believing a wife never
humped her husband - that's just gullibility.

I agree with you on these points. And yes the big picture is so often missed when dealing with the small matters that differ between denominational groups.

frog12986
as to jews. I really would love to talk to a jewish person to find out what they think. I believe that they believe in God but only in the old testament bible they believe that jesus came but that he was not the Messiah and that they are still waiting for him to return.
As to the conflict in the Middle East I often think it is not based on religion at all but just on people wanting more oil. There are different jews like there are different people in all religions with different beliefs. Like I said I dont know much about it but if there is a jew out there I would love to chat.

WALRUSBEAR

i'd wager that's just plain wrong
it has a fair share of fundamentalists much like any other but countless theologians and spiritually centred clergy/lay people exist in the catholic church
as much as any other

Catholics may be "spiritual" people. They go to church and say hail mary and do all the things that are good however there is not much of a spiritual connection between people and God. I think that they believe that God is not approachable hence the help from Mary etc. However christianity believes that through Jesus that God is approachable.
Yes there may be spiritually centered clergy but also spiritually centered people. I dont think clergy in any religion are like UBER religious people but just the chosen ones with the gift of the gab

NWATS

i agree with you that tradition has often been put in place of spirituality yet

WALRUSBEAR
you yourself have finished your post with another generalisation that's incorrect. how can you prove that there is more of this thinking in catholicism than other christian denominations? pointing to the 'traditions' of catholicism is no argument.

yes this is true. It is in most if not all religions that people look at small issues and that these divide the church when the big picture of God and his grace is forgotten,
I live in a pretty conservative town. The churches are still mostly traditional and some may say old fashioned. THe people in them are very stubborn they do not want to change and talk to people of other denominations because they are different. If only they could see that we should be united in Christ and that that is the foundation of all the churches that we could all me such a strength and have great fellowship in the community. As it is there are a lot of youth who know no other christians, youth groups are tiny and some do not run at all, and no-one knows other christians except if they attend the same church. I believe that this is very sad

WALRUSBEAR i thought you were going ok till you said this

there obviously is no 'right' religion

this is so blatantly untrue. As all religions are mutually exclusive there must be one that is right. As to how we know I guess we have faith till we die. I think we will find out then.
New christian denominations like all of them may get bogged down but.... as long as Jesus stays #1 I believe that they are christian.


LUCKY8STAR i would love to have a chat to you.

Philomena what do you believe about salvation is it through christ alone or by other means (you as in Roman Catholics)

 

[erin_tonkin]

U cant assume from doing just those 2 things u are going to heaven no one can say they are definately going to heaven. God is the only judge and decider of that.

Yes God decides but because of Jesus I have assurance that i am going to heaven. I belive that Jesus Christ died and took the punishment for my sins so that i escape judgement. Yes I believe I am going to heaven. Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so.

 

[walrusbear]

Catholics may be "spiritual" people. They go to church and say hail mary and do all the things that are good however there is not much of a spiritual connection between people and God.

how do you justify that claim? how do you define 'spiritual connection'?

yes this is true. It is in most if not all religions that people look at small issues and that these divide the church when the big picture of God and his grace is forgotten,
I live in a pretty conservative town. The churches are still mostly traditional and some may say old fashioned. THe people in them are very stubborn they do not want to change and talk to people of other denominations because they are different. If only they could see that we should be united in Christ and that that is the foundation of all the churches that we could all me such a strength and have great fellowship in the community. As it is there are a lot of youth who know no other christians, youth groups are tiny and some do not run at all, and no-one knows other christians except if they attend the same church. I believe that this is very sad

there's plenty of interdenominational movements outside of your conservative town

there obviously is no 'right' religion

this is so blatantly untrue. As all religions are mutually exclusive there must be one that is right. As to how we know I guess we have faith till we die. I think we will find out then.

i think you'll find that only hardlined fundamentalists would follow that logic. interfaith dialogue has existed for a fair while. how could it be 'blatant' that some religions are 'wrong' and others 'right'. to take that thinking to its conclusion i'll presume christianity is 'wrong' because of how young it is relative to other major religions.

 

[erin_tonkin]

there's plenty of interdenominational movements outside of your conservative town

yes i was only talking about my town i didnt say it was a universal thing.

think you'll find that only hardlined fundamentalists would follow that logic. interfaith dialogue has existed for a fair while. how could it be 'blatant' that some religions are 'wrong' and others 'right'. to take that thinking to its conclusion i'll presume christianity is 'wrong' because of how young it is relative to other major religions.

presume away.. we will find out one day. But there can only be one that is right. They belive mutually exclusive things. Really they do

 

[erin_tonkin]

how do you define 'spiritual connection'?

A relationship with God.

 

[walrusbear]

there's plenty of interdenominational movements outside of your conservative town

yes i was only talking about my town i didnt say it was a universal thing.

think you'll find that only hardlined fundamentalists would follow that logic. interfaith dialogue has existed for a fair while. how could it be 'blatant' that some religions are 'wrong' and others 'right'. to take that thinking to its conclusion i'll presume christianity is 'wrong' because of how young it is relative to other major religions.

presume away.. we will find out one day. But there can only be one that is right. They belive mutually exclusive things. Really they do

the important parts aren't so exclusive
how do you suppose that one religion arbitrarily supposed a 'truth' that others have bypassed?

 

[walrusbear]

how do you define 'spiritual connection'?

A relationship with God.

so you're arguing catholics don't have a relationship with God just because they sometimes pray to mary?

 

[yy]

Organised religion in general is unnessecary in my view. Why do people need to be arbitarily told how to worship a supreme being? I would have thought a much closer spiritual bond would develop if that was something you did yourself.

123
yes, either one or no religion can be right. they're mutually exclusive, however, just because you happen to believe in the "wrong" religion, in my religion, that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to hell.

 

[lucky8star]

OKKKKKKK I need to say something HERE~~~~~~

As a Catholic I believe I have a relationship with God, as muc as it may seem insane to many of you out there. As a Roman catholic I believe God is composed of God the Father, God the Son and Gd the Holy Spirit. Mary, Our Virgin Mother is a virgin and this is why she is soo special, she wasn't just like you and me.. she is the Mother of JC.. and I just don't understand why ppl like Baptists just refuse to acknowledge Her and ditz her.. I was born a Catholic and although I didn't believe in anything the Roman Catholic Church teached THEN, I do now due to my personal experiences which have happened to me, I feel I have experien ced God's presence as I do even to this very day...

WYD Will Be a SPECTACULAR EVENT- And I'm lookng forward to meeting other young Catholics from around the globe and strengthen my faith!

P.S. Back then people controlled thir "urges" as some of you may prefer to refer it as.. and society these days don't which I don't understand. Whats the point of pleasure? Why can't society today wait till marriage is beyong my comprehension.. just for pleasure? I don't see that as a substantial explanation.

 

[GoodSirLancelot]

I can't beleive you christians are so arrogant that you think that "god" (if he exists) actually gives a fuck about you.

"Oh, I have a relationship with god". How the fuck do you know? Because you say so? Because you're that damn important "god" actually has to give a shit about you?

Seriously, get the fuck over yourselves.

 

[yy]

Whats the point of pleasure? Why can't society today wait till marriage is beyong my comprehension.. just for pleasure? I don't see that as a substantial explanation.

i believe in hedonism. are you serious? what's the point of pleasure??

 

[erin_tonkin]

so you're arguing catholics don't have a relationship with God just because they sometimes pray to mary?

no not because of that but that they believe that they cannot be close to God as it is not by faith in Jesus they are saved but by works. I have been reading up on traditional RC beliefs but reading lucky8star's post it seems that the view of the church or maybe just her church or the youth of RC's has changed. id be interested to know.
A catholic may have a relationship with God I dont know only God does. but.... the RC teaching suggests that such a relationship is not achievable

 

[erin_tonkin]

i believe in hedonism. are you serious? what's the point of pleasure??

yeah i agree with Lucky8star. sex for pleasure alone i dont think is using it wisely. It was given as a gift and i believe to be shared with the ones you love not just for kicks.

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

I agree yes christians believe in mary and she was the mother of God but christianity says that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that no one gets to the father except through him. If they say that you can get Mary to help with your salvation then they defy one of the main points of christianity that Jesus is all you need and are therefore not really christian.

Seeking help from Mary doesnt defy any point of christianity. Jesus is all you need, but Mary is very important as well. Jesus is all you need, but not the only thing which can help you.