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Roots of complex numbers (2 Viewers)

mazza_728

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Hey
can anyone give me a guide to follow when answering questions on roots of complex numbers? Im completely lost so anything really would help!

e.g z<sup>2</sup> = i

can someone find values of z??

Thankyou xoxo
 
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J0n

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Let z = a + ib
(a + ib)<sup>2</sup> = i
a<sup>2</sup> + 2abi - b<sup>2</sup> = i
equating real and imaginary parts
a<sup>2</sup> - b<sup>2</sup> = 0 ____(1)
2ab = 1
a=1/(2b) ____(2)
Sub (2) into (1)
1/(4b<sup>2</sup>) - b<sup>2</sup> = 0
1 - 4b<sup>4</sup> = 0
b<sup>4</sup> = 1/4
b = +/- sqrt(1/2) = +/- [1/sqrt(2)] ____(3)
sub (3) into (2)
a = +/- [sqrt(2)/2]
.'. z = +/- [(sqrt(2)/2) + 1/sqrt(2)i]
 

J0n

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Originally posted by abdooooo!!!
umm... if my memory serves me right, then root of i = +/-(sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i)
That's the same answer as me, except i have rationalised the denominator of the real part.
 

ND

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A different method:

z^2=i
|z|^2cis2@=cis(pi/2)
.'. |z|=1 (equating modulii)
2@=pi/2 + 2k*pi (where k is an integer)
@=pi/4 + k*pi

.'. z= cis(pi/4), cis(-3pi/4) [when k=0, -1 respectively]
 

mazza_728

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A different method:

z^2=i
|z|^2cis2@=cis(pi/2)
.'. |z|=1 (equating modulii)
2@=pi/2 + 2k*pi (where k is an integer)
@=pi/4 + k*pi

.'. z= cis(pi/4), cis(-3pi/4) [when k=0, -1 respectively]
this is how i was taught to do it but i really dont understand it.. can u explain all steps in laymens terms by any chance.. explain it like ur explaining to a three year old because that is how my brain is functioning at the moment .

Let z = a + ib
(a + ib)2 = i
a2 + 2abi - b2 = i
equating real and imaginary parts
a2 - b2 = 0 ____(1)
2ab = 1
a=1/(2b) ____(2)
Sub (2) into (1)
1/(4b2) - b2 = 0
1 - 4b4 = 0
b4 = 1/4
b = +/- sqrt(1/2) = +/- [1/sqrt(2)] ____(3)
sub (3) into (2)
a = +/- [sqrt(2)/2]
.'. z = +/- [(sqrt(2)/2) + 1/sqrt(2)i]
i really like this method but when i try and solve say:
z<sup>4</sup>+1=0
how does it work??
 

abdooooo!!!

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Originally posted by mazza_728
i really like this method but when i try and solve say:
z<sup>4</sup>+1=0
how does it work??
it gets too big and confusing...can u please help!
well if you want to do it using that way then... its the same thing.

you'll just end up with same answers, but now with a conjugate +/- (sqrt0.5 - sqrt0.5*i) and the original +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i).

because z^2 = root i or root -i, instead of just root i, i think. :)

some correct me if im wrong, can't be bother to actually do it. LOL

edit: z^2 = root -1 and -root -1, ie root -1 = i and not what i said above, LOL. confused myself.
 
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abdooooo!!!

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Originally posted by mazza_728
this is how i was taught to do it but i really dont understand it.. can u explain all steps in laymens terms by any chance.. explain it like ur explaining to a three year old because that is how my brain is functioning at the moment .
i don't know if i should try to explain... i might confuse you more... like i confused you with the chem thing. sorry. :(

ND will proly explained it well.
 

ND

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Originally posted by mazza_728
this is how i was taught to do it but i really dont understand it.. can u explain all steps in laymens terms by any chance.. explain it like ur explaining to a three year old because that is how my brain is functioning at the moment .
Heheh ok.

z^2=i
Firstly, remember that z can be expressed in mod-arg form as |z|(cos@+isin@), and by de moivre's theorem:
z^2=|z|^2cis2@
so now we have:
|z|^2cis2@=i
also, i can be expressed as cos(pi/2)+isin(pi/2)
so:
|z|^2cis2@=cis(pi/2)
Now if 2 complex numbers are equal, their modulii are equal, and so are their arguments, so:
|z|^2=1 (equating modulii)
|z|=1
and equating arguments:
cis2@=cis(pi/2)
taking the inverse cis:
2@=pi/2 +2k*pi (because an angle outside of the principle range is has an equivalent, which is +2k*pi where k is an integer)
@=pi/4 + k*pi

Now in the roots, the only difference will be the value of @, which varies with k.
so firstly let k=0, then z=cis(pi/4).
secondly let k=-1, z= cis(-3/4)
No matter which integer you let k equal, it will always be one of these two roots. (for example, cis(5pi/4)=cis(pi/4))

i really like this method but when i try and solve say:
z4+1=0
how does it work??
If you wanted to use that method for this, you would need to do:

z^4=-1
(a+ib)^4=-1
then expand out (a+ib)^4, and equate reals and imaginaries, but you do not want to do this with ^4, it will get too messy.
 

abdooooo!!!

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Originally posted by mazza_728
yeah that chem thing got really confusing.. im kinda confused about z<sup>4</sup>+1=0 already..
but did you understand what i said for the first way of doing it. is my english that bad?

z<sup>4</sup>+1=0
z<sup>4</sup> =-1

(z<sup>2</sup>)<sup>2</sup> = -1

hence, (z<sup>2</sup>) = +/- i

but we know that z<sup>2</sup> = i, will give us this +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i)

and futhermore, z<sup>2</sup> = -i will give you this +/- (sqrt0.5 - sqrt0.5*i) (the conjugate root theorem crap...)

so the answer would be +/- (sqrt0.5 - sqrt0.5*i) and +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i).
 

ND

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Originally posted by abdooooo!!!
but did you understand what i said for the first way of doing it. is my english that bad?

z<sup>4</sup>+1=0
z<sup>4</sup> =-1

(z<sup>2</sup>)<sup>2</sup> = -1

hence, (z<sup>2</sup>) = +/- i

but we know that z<sup>2</sup> = i, will give us this +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i)

and futhermore, z<sup>2</sup> = -i will give you this +/- (sqrt0.5 - sqrt0.5*i) (the conjugate root theorem crap...)

so the answer would be +/- (sqrt0.5 - sqrt0.5*i) and +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i).
Yeh that's a good method, but that's not the same as j0n's, which is probably why mazza was confused. :)
 

ND

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Originally posted by abdooooo!!!
yeah, but its advisable you do this k = +/- (1, 2, 3... ) :D
Why? It's easier to let k=0, than 1(in this case) and converting back into principle range. I always go k=0, -1, 1, -2, 2, ... etc.
 

abdooooo!!!

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Originally posted by ND
Why? It's easier to let k=0, than 1(in this case) and converting back into principle range. I always go k=0, -1, 1, -2, 2, ... etc.
oops. you're right... i forgot to type 0... my mistake :shy:

or else i would just take way longer with finding the roots on the unit circle thingy or whatever the freakin modulus is. :)
 

Grey Council

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i do as ND does. 0, -1, 1, 1, etc

I've heard you can do anything as long as the numbers as consequtive. :)
 

abdooooo!!!

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Originally posted by ND
Yeh that's a good method, but that's not the same as j0n's, which is probably why mazza was confused. :)
it isn't? umm... to me its the same thing except you manipulated with algebra first to get this: z^2 = +/- i and from there its just the standard square root of a complex number method. i just remember the results... +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i), as i did it too many times.

i feel kinda guilty for confusing mazza_728 everytime i tried to help her... cause she helped me heaps with my journey essay. :)
 

abdooooo!!!

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Originally posted by GuardiaN
I've heard you can do anything as long as the numbers as consequtive. :)
really? we should try it on many different kind of questions... see if there is any difference with the time it takes to find the all the roots. :D

or you just use the fact that there are n roots differring by the same angle with the same mod. find one and use the circle to find the rest... but i like to conform my results with both methods. ;)

edit: the problem with using 1,2,3... like that is that you'll get something that is not in the range of -pi < x < pi... i think. but who cares... :)
 

ND

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Originally posted by abdooooo!!!
it isn't? umm... to me its the same thing except you manipulated with algebra first to get this: z^2 = +/- i and from there its just the standard square root of a complex number method. i just remember the results... +/- (sqrt0.5 + sqrt0.5*i), as i did it too many times.

i feel kinda guilty for confusing mazza_728 everytime i tried to help her... cause she helped me heaps with my journey essay. :)
The thing is that when you get it back to z^2=+/-i, you could really use any method to get z, and i think mazza was looking for a 'straigh off the bat' approach using j0n's method, which of course wouldn't be nice at all. Don't get me wrong your method is good, i was just trying to explain why mazza may be confused.
 

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