Rosencrantz n Guildenstern Are Dead!!!! (1 Viewer)

[Loz#1]

I found my RAGAD notes I am no longer screwed....but still confused

 

[TastesGoodBut]

and DONT LOOK AT THEMES i cannot mention this enough

do not mention the word THEME in your essay, or any similar words (thematic, thematises, thematrical, themtheretharhills)

you can use the themes to make your comparison, but do not compare the themese compare the values associated with them: ie
Do not compare Appearance/Reality in your essay, compare the values regarding truth
Do not compare DEATH in your essay, compare the values towards death in each.. such as how suicide was the original sin because '[gods] canon 'gaist self slaughter' forbids good old Hammy-D from taking his own life

 

[Loz#1]

Arrrrrrrrrrgh stop!!! Confusing me more, my brain is sore and muddled.

 

[red_head]

i love this moduel i aced it 19/20

i spoke to a snr marker and they couldnt stress any more to talk about language cos i asked the exact same question about themes.

You should always talk about themes but it also depends on the question

and loz i agree with you bout jane eyre. it sux ass she is a slut

 

[red_head]

Originally posted by TastesGoodBut
and DONT LOOK AT THEMES i cannot mention this enough

do not mention the word THEME in your essay, or any similar words (thematic, thematises, thematrical, themtheretharhills)

you can use the themes to make your comparison, but do not compare the themese compare the values associated with them: ie
Do not compare Appearance/Reality in your essay, compare the values regarding truth
Do not compare DEATH in your essay, compare the values towards death in each.. such as how suicide was the original sin because '[gods] canon 'gaist self slaughter' forbids good old Hammy-D from taking his own life

dude your getting mixed with last years HSC and 'values'.
You HAVE to talk about themes in conjuntion with their context and how they have been transformed and wat comment is being made about society.

wat planet are you on to state such a thing

 

[Lord Ac]

OMGosh some ppl here are gonna die.

I dont know whcih yet?!?!?!
!
Ac

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by red_head
dude your getting mixed with last years HSC and 'values'.
You HAVE to talk about themes in conjuntion with their context and how they have been transformed and wat comment is being made about society.

I agree to an extent - the themes are what u should be talking about, because this is essentially what Stoppard does, he transforms these themes in order to make a comment on society, so this is central to ur argument - but yes, u actually talk about why these themes have been transformed, because of changing values associated with the two different contexts

 

[TastesGoodBut]

you wrong.. you dont talk about themes markers comments have said "responses are mistaking themes for values and are too thematic"

by talking about themes it suggests that youve gone to a study guide and copied it word for word.

the new hsc is about thinking on your own, its designed to make the study guides useless apart from the plot and its designed so that themes do not come into it

im not trying to argue but you should use themes sole as a basis to look for values within... talk about the values associated WITH death and not how death is represented in both

talk about the values associated with making decisions rather than uncertainty

talk about the values associate with having TRUTH rather than appearance versus reality

talk about the value of theatre rather than just who the audience was

look at past questions - they are all "how has the composer of the old said something new" - dont talk about how hes changed the themes talk about how the values that may be ASSOCIATED with the themes have been changed by the context

if you start talking bout themes, mention the word theme or whatever you will get yourself into a trap that MANY ppl get themselves into....

just think about it for a second before u decide to flame me (and yes i understand that you did well minai)

 

[cakes]

Originally posted by TastesGoodBut
you wrong.. you dont talk about themes markers comments have said "responses are mistaking themes for values and are too thematic"

by talking about themes it suggests that youve gone to a study guide and copied it word for word.

the new hsc is about thinking on your own, its designed to make the study guides useless apart from the plot and its designed so that themes do not come into it

im not trying to argue but you should use themes sole as a basis to look for values within... talk about the values associated WITH death and not how death is represented in both

talk about the values associated with making decisions rather than uncertainty

talk about the values associate with having TRUTH rather than appearance versus reality

talk about the value of theatre rather than just who the audience was

look at past questions - they are all "how has the composer of the old said something new" - dont talk about how hes changed the themes talk about how the values that may be ASSOCIATED with the themes have been changed by the context

if you start talking bout themes, mention the word theme or whatever you will get yourself into a trap that MANY ppl get themselves into....

just think about it for a second before u decide to flame me (and yes i understand that you did well minai)

arent you just saying the same thing as minai?

looking at how stoppard transformed the themes and issues in hamlet as a result of a different context thus values?

 

[manta]

ok... now u r all confusing me even more..... im gonna fail..... :burn:

 

[Minai]

TastesGoodBut: u are right 100%, u have to look at the values associated with these themes, thats essentially what I've been saying all along, as Cakes pointed out - but I posted in regard to ur original post, where u said "DONT LOOK AT THEMES" and this of course is wrong - u have to look at themes in order to discuss the values behind them

 

[Lexicographer]

Just so it's clear, the Elizabethan period is part of the period known as the English Rennaissance. You should use that to compare the periods as equivalent points in history, reflecting on the rapid social, cultural and philosophical change. Then compare the differences in ideas which Stoppard has used the plays to demonstrate. Plenty of things are different, but just as many are the same. That's the beauty or the pair - they show how through their differences the periods are absurdly congruent, whilst turning everything on its head.

Minai is right in that the whole point of the play is the chasm between Elizabethan and Postmodern values. The "great man" theory is completely at ends with the "comman man", Religion has not only lost its dominance but theology itself is being questioned, and regality is no longer something attributed to heredity. What we have to show is a) Stoppard is commenting on these similarities and differences between Shakespeare's time and his own b) he is doing it with a variety of techniques, transforming Shakespeare's work and message into his own.

 

[TastesGoodBut]

but what you guys have been saying is you compare the themes and that is wrong... you dont compare the themes at all

you shouldnt even mention 'another theme common to both plays' or anything like that..

 

[Lexicographer]

Who said we'd be writing anything like that? I didn't once mention themes, and going "another theme common etc" is a sure way to lose a band 5, let alone 6.

The topic is transformations, and the way a transformation reflects different things.

 

[haz_it_all]

Originally posted by Minai
u have to look at the values associated with these themes, thats essentially what I've been saying all along, as Cakes pointed out - but I posted in regard to ur original post, where u said "DONT LOOK AT THEMES" and this of course is wrong - u have to look at themes in order to discuss the values behind them

spot on minai if u look at the band5/6 answer on this site u'll see that he/she used to themes to write bout the values etc etc

 

[starlyte]

Originally posted by cakes
yup, sorry, elizabethan...but the renaissance went right thru to the 1600s, and is also important cos its where a lot of the ideas in hamlet came from, such as christian humanism, questioning universal ideas (sceptical philosophy of montaigne??), etc.

err yeah, the comment for my essay in the trials was that i didnt explain the context enough. i'm not sure what to say abuot the elizabethan era?? can someone explain?

the only thing i know about it is that at the time hamlet was written, it was towards the end of the elizabethan reign so there was concern about the future in relation to leadership/kingship, as she didnt have any sons or something.. which is why there are issues like that in t he play.. ermm yeah =S what else? =\

well the renaissance was really well known, like popular, in italy(dont take my word on that, its just what i was told ). im not saying it wasnt important in england, but 1) we're talking about denmark, 2) shakespeare was generally related to the elizabethan empire. he was like a private play writing person, i think (im thinking shakespeare in love, haha). generally, u can just talk about the social heirarchy like peasants to gentry, how the peasants were generally ignored and werent valued. this is the main transformation - all classes are now valued because of the realisation that they were needed for the empire to survive and such things like that.

 

[cakes]

Originally posted by starlyte
1) we're talking about denmark, 2) shakespeare was generally related to the elizabethan empire. he was like a private play writing person, i think (im thinking shakespeare in love, haha). generally, u can just talk about the social heirarchy like peasants to gentry, how the peasants were generally ignored and werent valued. this is the main transformation - all classes are now valued because of the realisation that they were needed for the empire to survive and such things like that.

why are we talking about denmark?? i know hamlet was set in denmark, but shakespeare is english? so shouldnt we be looking at what influenced what and how he wrote? i thought that was what context was about... and yeah, the renaissance originated in italy, but spread across most of europe... yeh i know he lived during the elizabethan reign, and was a social conformist... that's all i really know about that.. but yeah i dunno, i tend to think some of the ideas in the renaissance are important and evident in hamlet, but then again thats just what i think when i look at it...

 

[scandal]

could someone give me a run down of what concept of truth is discovered by hamlet in Hamlet? Im not sire if im really dumb but i dont remembevr covereing this in class - well not in that way anyway - thanks in advance

 

[anastabation]

Hamlet discovers that his father was murdered by his brother Claudius

 

[scandal]

thats all?? sweet - that wasnt that difficult........so thats not really important then.......