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Saudi Cleric urges Muslim women to cover all but one eye (2 Viewers)
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Captain Hero
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If it's so wonderful why don't you go live there.Azurie said:
. It'd lend some credence to your arguments.
bigboyjames
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Luzzzz
bigboyjames
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24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.omgd. said:
bigboyjames
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Captain Hero
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Why is the woman not chained up in the kitchen? I mean seriously, why are they fucking around with this 'veil' shit. If they're going to really destroy the rights of a woman, tie her up and stop going about it in half measures.
diametric
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I'm sorry, but if you have taken the above to mean that wearing the Hijab is not compulsory, you are severely mistaken.
Being a muslim, I was quite disturbed to hear this sort of stuff thrown around, so I thought I would gather some stuff for you to read:
- The people named below are far more wiser than I and you. Posting one thing and accepting your interpretation is NOT something that is condoned in Islam, a person should always look to commentary or understanding from a person who knows better, and who has studied these issues and the meaning of religious scripture in depth.
Obligation of Hijab as Stated in Qur'an
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (jalabib) close round them (when they go abroad)..." (33:59)
Ibn Rushd in Bidaya al-Mujtahid (1:83) said that this verse has been adduced as proof that no part of a woman's body should be evident to those who are not among the prohibited degrees of relationship (mahram) or her husband. Al-Qurtubi in his commentary on the verse said that the jilbab is the cloak that conceals all of the body including the head.
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms..." (24:31) A better translation of 'khumurihinna' as stated in the Qur'an, referring to the 'Khumur' would be 'head-covering' rather than 'veil'. This is why you will usually see a muslim woman's head scarf falling down over her bosom.
"... And when you ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a veil. . ." (33:53) Al-Qurtubi said in commentary of this verse: "The consensus of Muslims is that the genitals and backside constitute nakedness for men and women, as well as all of woman except her face and hands, but some disagreed about the latter two." In Islam, if there is disagreement on a topic and no clear consensus can be reached, the consensus includes both the clear and those things disagreed upon, as is the current consensus.
Among proofs for the veil in the Sunna are the following authentic hadiths (traditional reports) of the Prophet – (s):
"Ayesha (r) reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr (r) came to the Messenger of Allah (s) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]
-Peace.
Being a muslim, I was quite disturbed to hear this sort of stuff thrown around, so I thought I would gather some stuff for you to read:
- The people named below are far more wiser than I and you. Posting one thing and accepting your interpretation is NOT something that is condoned in Islam, a person should always look to commentary or understanding from a person who knows better, and who has studied these issues and the meaning of religious scripture in depth.
Obligation of Hijab as Stated in Qur'an
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (jalabib) close round them (when they go abroad)..." (33:59)
Ibn Rushd in Bidaya al-Mujtahid (1:83) said that this verse has been adduced as proof that no part of a woman's body should be evident to those who are not among the prohibited degrees of relationship (mahram) or her husband. Al-Qurtubi in his commentary on the verse said that the jilbab is the cloak that conceals all of the body including the head.
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms..." (24:31) A better translation of 'khumurihinna' as stated in the Qur'an, referring to the 'Khumur' would be 'head-covering' rather than 'veil'. This is why you will usually see a muslim woman's head scarf falling down over her bosom.
"... And when you ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a veil. . ." (33:53) Al-Qurtubi said in commentary of this verse: "The consensus of Muslims is that the genitals and backside constitute nakedness for men and women, as well as all of woman except her face and hands, but some disagreed about the latter two." In Islam, if there is disagreement on a topic and no clear consensus can be reached, the consensus includes both the clear and those things disagreed upon, as is the current consensus.
Among proofs for the veil in the Sunna are the following authentic hadiths (traditional reports) of the Prophet – (s):
"Ayesha (r) reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr (r) came to the Messenger of Allah (s) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]
-Peace.
Captain Hero
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Wahhabist detected
HOUSE OF SAUD BABY
HOUSE OF SAUD BABY
bigboyjames
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fuck off.diametric said:
I believe it is one thing to listen to the advice and wisdom of those who are older and more learned than we are, but when it comes to islamic scholarship i think there is a great divide.
It is hard to apply the same arguement to islamic scholarship (I am aware that the quran and the prophet muhammad s.a.w also instruct us to do this) as many scholars of islam are part of a specific group educated in traditional, lets say middle eastern views of what islam is and how it should be practiced.
I believe that "Covering up" is not compulsory in the ways that many think it is. For example, the use of the Burqa. the verses and information quoted before speak of women covering themselves during the prophets time using specific clothing.
The same cannot be applied to today, and "dressing modestly" should be the guidelines for the islamic dress code, for both men and women, rather than enforcing the traditional arab clothing (such as the burqa) of centuries ago.
As i mentioned before, many islamic scholars are from the middle east. On part of their views, they have no reason to consider different societies across the world when their teachings and knowledge is readily applicable for arab and middle eastern culture, where many are comfortable with their current lifestyles.
Those same teachings need to be strongly revised before they can be applied to those living in different societies, such as the islamic society residing within Australia.
I believe Islam, or what we see it to be, needs to be revised by the scholars of different societies in order to find a more suitable compromise in practice rather than a strict adherence to the dictat of the few, such as the scholars of the middle east.
It is hard to apply the same arguement to islamic scholarship (I am aware that the quran and the prophet muhammad s.a.w also instruct us to do this) as many scholars of islam are part of a specific group educated in traditional, lets say middle eastern views of what islam is and how it should be practiced.
I believe that "Covering up" is not compulsory in the ways that many think it is. For example, the use of the Burqa. the verses and information quoted before speak of women covering themselves during the prophets time using specific clothing.
The same cannot be applied to today, and "dressing modestly" should be the guidelines for the islamic dress code, for both men and women, rather than enforcing the traditional arab clothing (such as the burqa) of centuries ago.
As i mentioned before, many islamic scholars are from the middle east. On part of their views, they have no reason to consider different societies across the world when their teachings and knowledge is readily applicable for arab and middle eastern culture, where many are comfortable with their current lifestyles.
Those same teachings need to be strongly revised before they can be applied to those living in different societies, such as the islamic society residing within Australia.
I believe Islam, or what we see it to be, needs to be revised by the scholars of different societies in order to find a more suitable compromise in practice rather than a strict adherence to the dictat of the few, such as the scholars of the middle east.
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Captain Hero
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This stuff is such a joke. All religions are such jokes.
diametric said:
See the reason i was asking is because i was reading about muslim women once and it was an islamic website ( seemed very trusted )
and there was a quote from the Quran ( i dont remember what it was... so what i remember of it may sound MUCH harsher than what it really is, if the quote was true ) something about women who showed their hair or something being hung by their revealed hair after their death ? like as punishment..... [ i mean afterlifee.... not as in a corpse =/ ]
now i dont remember the quote/site/or if it was from Quran/ Hadith ..... butt.. i do remember the hanging down part.... so thats why i was kinda suprised when i read that it wasnt compulsory, im still not sure...... but reallyyy curiousss =S.....
i don't think i've ever read anything like that. i'd certainly like to see it if its in the quran, but i don't think something like that exists in the Quran. Perhaps it was in one of the hadiths (which I don't put too much faith into) or a scholar/religious leader's words.
but yeah. i do not believe there is anything along those lines in islam.
but yeah. i do not believe there is anything along those lines in islam.
dion7789
Dodgy Pen Dealer
So i just looked up hijab on wikipedia...i know that at times i can be unreliable, anyway this is what it says:
"Any one who rejects the principle of hijab in Iran is an apostate and the punishment for an apostate under Islamic law is death. The Taliban's Islamic Emirate required women to cover not only their head but their face as well, because "the face of a woman is a source of corruption" for men not related to them."
"Non-governmental enforcement of hijab is found in many parts of the Muslim world.
Successful informal coercion of women by sectors of society to wear hijab has been reported in Gaza where Mujama' al-Islami, the predecessor of HAMAS, reportedly used "a mixture of consent and coercion" to "`restore` hijab" on urban educated women in Gaza in the late 1970s and 1980s."
And the one that makes me think that although it may not be 'compulsory' in the loosest sense of the term is
"a survey conducted in France in May 2003 reportedly "found that 77% of girls wearing the hijab said they did so because of physical threats from Islamist groups"
"According to a Rand Corporation commentary by Cheryl Benard, "in Pakistan, Kashmir, and Afghanistan, hundreds of women have been blinded or maimed when acid was thrown on their unveiled faces by male fanatics who considered them improperly dressed," for failure to wear hijab. An example being a 2001 "acid attackhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_attack on four young Muslim women in Srinagarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinagar ... by an unknown militant outfit, and the swift compliance by women of all ages on the issue of wearing the chadarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador (head-dress) in public"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
Basically go there and there is also a list of countries and the laws/customs of the countries
"Any one who rejects the principle of hijab in Iran is an apostate and the punishment for an apostate under Islamic law is death. The Taliban's Islamic Emirate required women to cover not only their head but their face as well, because "the face of a woman is a source of corruption" for men not related to them."
"Non-governmental enforcement of hijab is found in many parts of the Muslim world.
Successful informal coercion of women by sectors of society to wear hijab has been reported in Gaza where Mujama' al-Islami, the predecessor of HAMAS, reportedly used "a mixture of consent and coercion" to "`restore` hijab" on urban educated women in Gaza in the late 1970s and 1980s."
And the one that makes me think that although it may not be 'compulsory' in the loosest sense of the term is
"a survey conducted in France in May 2003 reportedly "found that 77% of girls wearing the hijab said they did so because of physical threats from Islamist groups"
"According to a Rand Corporation commentary by Cheryl Benard, "in Pakistan, Kashmir, and Afghanistan, hundreds of women have been blinded or maimed when acid was thrown on their unveiled faces by male fanatics who considered them improperly dressed," for failure to wear hijab. An example being a 2001 "acid attackhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_attack on four young Muslim women in Srinagarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinagar ... by an unknown militant outfit, and the swift compliance by women of all ages on the issue of wearing the chadarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador (head-dress) in public"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
Basically go there and there is also a list of countries and the laws/customs of the countries
JaredR
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Hiistorically did Islam practise castration on males? Is that what is meant by "or male servants free of physical needs" ?bigboyjames said:
bigboyjames
Banned
of course not. but i wouldn't be surprised if some fucked up Saudi cleric did issue such a fatwa in extreme cases.JaredR said:
doubt itJaredR said: