Scaling and Relevancy of Maths? (2 Viewers)

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by Mossad

Mate, the harsh reality is that the guy is right.
People who are doing general maths are either:
1. Unintelligent
2. lazy
3. Bad at/hates maths


Well guess what comes next. In case you got it wrong the answer is: 3

Why the fuck did you do maths for? [/B]

Firstly i will just makie myself clear, i am not specifically refering to the above, i am refering to all the posts regarding the above topic.

thats BS....

Its not unfair to say that people doing extension 2 are generally going to do better in the HSC than people doing General maths, but it is fucking stupid and niave to say that those doing general maths (or other low scaling subjects) are lazy or stupid.

I am doing mathematics, but i work my fucking arse off in other subjects which i know are going to have a better chance of counting in my UAI.

The point is that it is unfair to stereotype people based on the subjects they do.

 

[Mossad]

it is fucking stupid and niave to say that those doing general maths (or other low scaling subjects) are lazy or stupid.

And/or don't like it or are just bad at it. When you comment on someone's idea or opinion can you at least have the decency to do it properly instead of choosing the bits you want...???

Do you smartass has another reason then post it instead of talking meaningless shit and adding nothing to this thread...

 

[Mossad]

If they were lazy they wouldent be doing the hsc

ROFLMFAO....what world did you go to shcool in mate?

sheesh

 

[Mossad]

fuck you're starting to piss me off now!!!!!

If their too lazy to do school and the hsc, how the hell would they suvive uni? I know ppl dont just do the hsc to go to uni...

You fucking contradict yourself every second word. Just because all the lazy people in the school you attended leave school it doesn't mean that people all over Australia who can't be fucked studying leave school does it????....
People who get shit marks don't leave schol for 101 million reasons e.g.: they don't want to piss off their parents, they think that things will get better once the HSC comes, they don't want to lose hope on themselves blah blah blah blah. You said it yourself mate....not everyone who stays in school is planning on going to uni ffs...

So why do u class ppl who do stand eng and general maths as lazy?

For the last fucking time. I gave more than one fucking reason didn't i?....can ya read what i wrote, can ya?????????????

Ffs just think about it, use your head, think....run scenarios in your head of why you did whatever you did and why other people do it...just consider the options...that's all you need to do to understand....

 

[Mossad]

im trying but you seem not to be able to read english.....i didn't say they are all lazy didn't i?...i gave 3 reasons based on common sense....if you can think on other reasons that's fine...i just gave what i can think of...simple as that.

 

[Toodulu]

Originally posted by YEAR12
Excuse me, I have a friend who doing general who is more than capable of ext 1, but it was a matter that her heart was with the humanities and she really needed to set priorities. So Mossad, I don't know what your fucking problem is, but get over it, I understand it in general terms but when you try and place EVERYONE who does general maths into your 3 little 'categories' you sound like an arrogant pig. Add to that the fact that you're wrong and really your way out of your depth buddy.

yea.. she set her priorities. if she had done everything that she is capable of doing, it would've been a lot of work. maybe lazy is a bit blunt, but she did take the easy way out.

i do heavy subjects including ext2 maths, and it definitely requires a lot of commitment and dedication. obviously there are harder and easier subjects, the important thing is that you put in the most amount of effort possible. you have no right to tell off the ppl who put in that bit of extra work and are capable of pointing it out.

basically, the ppl who put in that extra bit of time and effort will hopefully be rewarded in the end. and rightfully so.

so yea. piss off.

 

[Mossad]

i didn't write off people who try hard in general maths....

 

[Mossad]

and to them i say good on ya, keep up the good work and good luck to you...

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by Mossad


And/or don't like it or are just bad at it. When you comment on someone's idea or opinion can you at least have the decency to do it properly instead of choosing the bits you want...???

Do you smartass has another reason then post it instead of talking meaningless shit and adding nothing to this thread... [/B]

chill man....

I made it quite clear at the beginning of the post that i wasn't refering to you specifically, i was refering to all the posts that stated this fact....

I mean theres no reason to take it so personal. And i was just putting forward my opinion, so i have every right to do so.

 

[gnrlies]

Well maths i believe to be the biggest waste of time to ever exist. Its only there becuase it is a hard subject that is universally taught. It is irrelevant, yet it takes more than its fair share of study time....

I am doing my HSC this year, and i am going to do mathematics to pass only, (as my 12th unit). This is for UNI purposes. Then i can hopefully dominate in all my other subjects which are relevant to what i will be doing in the future (or at least are interesting - in the case of physics).

I dont do any homework or much study before my exams (so far, howevor i will have to work a little harder later on) so i guess you could say i was 'lazy' at maths, but to say that im a lazy person is unfair becuase i work hard in my other subjects, i have a job, and other commitments which is why i guess you cant really use laziness or stupidity to classify people doing a particular subject...

 

[Minai]

It's not a case of laziness. Just remember the reason WHY General Maths scales so badly compared to Ext.2 maths - because 'on average', the canditure of general maths dont perform as well in all their other subjects as the canditure doing Ext.2 Maths - and this is wat scaling is based on. This isn't someone's opinion, these are the hard facts.

gnrlies - Mathematics is not irrelevant unless u plan to do Arts or humanities at university.

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by MinAi
It's not a case of laziness. Just remember the reason WHY General Maths scales so badly compared to Ext.2 maths - because 'on average', the canditure of general maths dont perform as well in all their other subjects as the canditure doing Ext.2 Maths - and this is wat scaling is based on. This isn't someone's opinion, these are the hard facts.

gnrlies - Mathematics is not irrelevant unless u plan to do Arts or humanities at university.

Yes, people doing extension one tend to do better in other subjects etc, but the point is that you cant stereotype people.

To say that someone is stupid or lazy becuase they dont do a particular subject (or if they do a low scale subject) is invalid.

Thats what this is all about....



As for maths, well to say maths is irrelevant is inaccurate in that yes, some careers involve the use of numbers, but to what level? To looking at calculus, and trigonometry identities and all thatr shite? No of course not...

I think you'll find that 9/10 people can do the maths involved with most courses at UNI (unless you are doing some of the more mathematical based subjects in which case have maths as a pre-requisite)

Its just the bueracracy of it all - in a perfect world you would learn all the maths you need (specific maths concepts etc) when studying a particular degree.

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by gnrlies
Yes, people doing extension one tend to do better in other subjects etc, but the point is that you cant stereotype people.
To say that someone is stupid or lazy becuase they dont do a particular subject (or if they do a low scale subject) is invalid.
Thats what this is all about....

That wasn't my point - Yes it is invalid, I said 'it isnt a case of laziness'

Originally posted by gnrlies
I think you'll find that 9/10 people can do the maths involved with most courses at UNI (unless you are doing some of the more mathematical based subjects in which case have maths as a pre-requisite). Its just the bueracracy of it all - in a perfect world you would learn all the maths you need (specific maths concepts etc) when studying a particular degree. [/B]

I know people that are not necessarily struggling, but are finding some uni maths subjects pretty difficult (eg Discrete Mathematics), and these ppl did 3/4U maths. At university, if u do any sciences or engineering, its assumed u have a sound Maths Extension 1 background. So I wouldnt be saying 9/10 ppl can jus simply pick it up at uni...its just like saying stuff teaching primary kids english, they can learn all the english they need in yr12. Mathematics is compulsory up to yr10 for the same reason as english - its not so much the content that is important, but the foundation of critical thinking skills. And besides, maths isnt compulsory in yr11 and 12 so i dunno why ur complaining about it?

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by gnrlies

As for maths, well to say maths is irrelevant is inaccurate in that yes, some careers involve the use of numbers, but to what level? To looking at calculus, and trigonometry identities and all thatr shite? No of course not...

Engineering subjects would be a good example where most of the 4U course is relevant, calculus is essential in financial maths

I think you'll find that 9/10 people can do the maths involved with most courses at UNI (unless you are doing some of the more mathematical based subjects in which case have maths as a pre-requisite)

I disagree. Commerce has the lowest maths requirements of any subject that has maths requirements I think, and many people aren't coping well at all, even allowing for the poor teaching. There aren't any prerequisites for uni either unless you want advanced standing of some sort, they simply advise you to take a bridging course. One guy I know skipped a maths bridging course for engineering, no idea how he's going to survive .

I can't understand why people have trouble with maths, but then people can't understand why I'm so terrible at music and art. If people evince enough interest in the subject to do a course like general which AFAIK borders on the vocational, by all means let them do it. Usefulness in your future career is a ridiculously narrow measure of utility IMO.

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by MinAi


That wasn't my point - Yes it is invalid, I said 'it isnt a case of laziness'



I know people that are not necessarily struggling, but are finding some uni maths subjects pretty difficult (eg Discrete Mathematics), and these ppl did 3/4U maths. At university, if u do any sciences or engineering, its assumed u have a sound Maths Extension 1 background. So I wouldnt be saying 9/10 ppl can jus simply pick it up at uni...its just like saying stuff teaching primary kids english, they can learn all the english they need in yr12. Mathematics is compulsory up to yr10 for the same reason as english - its not so much the content that is important, but the foundation of critical thinking skills. And besides, maths isnt compulsory in yr11 and 12 so i dunno why ur complaining about it?

I know you said that it wasn't about laziness, but what i was trying to make the point, was that you cant stereotype people.

If you are doing enginering etc, of course maths is going to be a vital part of the subject in which case you would probably do a harder maths in school, but lets face it, in the real world nobody uses the maths that they learn in school. They might have a few different maths types that they use, but they dont need to do like 4 unit or extension maths at school to do it. It goes right through to university. I dont believe it is that important. I think that up to year 10 maths is usefull then after that its irrelevant to future career paths.

as for my 9/10 - thats assuming that the subjects dont involve maths as a key feature of the course. Perhaps economics, engineering and sciences need that level of maths, but then ideally the maths would be taught within that course (then perhaps people would get a grip on reality and realise its absolutely useless!)

What am i complaining about? Well I am someone who's weakest academic subject is maths, and i can see how useless it is and how irrelevant it is and am cynical at the way things work.

 

[blazezs]

Whats everyone going on about

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by kini mini


Engineering subjects would be a good example where most of the 4U course is relevant, calculus is essential in financial maths



I disagree. Commerce has the lowest maths requirements of any subject that has maths requirements I think, and many people aren't coping well at all, even allowing for the poor teaching. There aren't any prerequisites for uni either unless you want advanced standing of some sort, they simply advise you to take a bridging course. One guy I know skipped a maths bridging course for engineering, no idea how he's going to survive .

I can't understand why people have trouble with maths, but then people can't understand why I'm so terrible at music and art. If people evince enough interest in the subject to do a course like general which AFAIK borders on the vocational, by all means let them do it. Usefulness in your future career is a ridiculously narrow measure of utility IMO.

well i would agree that maths is needed at the higher level (uni) but then i guess when you look at the final careers that people take, then its irrelevancy shows up.

As i said earlier, people in particular jobs might only use a few different maths concepts. And this is the basis of what i am saying. Look at our parents - ask them if they can do the maths that we are doing and they have buckleys. - WHY? Becuase its irrelevant to their jobs and their lives.

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by gnrlies

If you are doing enginering etc, of course maths is going to be a vital part of the subject in which case you would probably do a harder maths in school, but lets face it, in the real world nobody uses the maths that they learn in school.

You're just wrong here. Topics such as calculus, complex numbers, and trigonometry are essential in engineering for instance.

They might have a few different maths types that they use, but they dont need to do like 4 unit or extension maths at school to do it. It goes right through to university. I dont believe it is that important. I think that up to year 10 maths is usefull then after that its irrelevant to future career paths.

I'm sure you could do a bridging course and get some idea of what's going on, but as Minai said you wouldn't have had as much opportunity to develop your general critical thinking skills that way.

as for my 9/10 - thats assuming that the subjects dont involve maths as a key feature of the course. Perhaps economics, engineering and sciences need that level of maths, but then ideally the maths would be taught within that course (then perhaps people would get a grip on reality and realise its absolutely useless!)

Given the time it took me to understand a lot of 4u, I would never recommend that people try and start it from scratch in a typically fast-paced uni course.

What am i complaining about? Well I am someone who's weakest academic subject is maths, and i can see how useless it is and how irrelevant it is and am cynical at the way things work.

I can see that you're very bitter about the perceived injustices that maths has caused you. But it is not necessary to do maths to get a good UAI, I know a 100 who couldn't do maths to save his life . Some people have greater natural talents than others, that's just the way it is.

 

[gnrlies]

i need a reality check.....

I came in here to see what people talk about in here, and i wind up joinging and entering a debate on UAI scaling and maths...

Sheeesh....

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by kini mini


You're just wrong here. Topics such as calculus, complex numbers, and trigonometry are essential in engineering for instance.



I'm sure you could do a bridging course and get some idea of what's going on, but as Minai said you wouldn't have had as much opportunity to develop your general critical thinking skills that way.



Given the time it took me to understand a lot of 4u, I would never recommend that people try and start it from scratch in a typically fast-paced uni course.



I can see that you're very bitter about the perceived injustices that maths has caused you. But it is not necessary to do maths to get a good UAI, I know a 100 who couldn't do maths to save his life . Some people have greater natural talents than others, that's just the way it is.

Yeah i totally understand that subjects like enginering need maths. Same with economics and that sorta stuff. But then thats an instance in which you would do like the harder maths in school. But then thats only a small proportion of the population. Im talking more in general - take a snapshot of the community - you have labourers, teachers, managers, lawyers, doctors, salespeople - hardly any ofn them use maths to a harder extent.