Scaling marks at university (1 Viewer)

[orangeguy]

I have seen many people ask something along the lines of scaling, and which subjects scales best etc.

Here is something to clear things up.

Marks dont actually get scaled at university.

Lots of people always misunderstand the meaning of the mark (a number). This mark is called the standardised numerical grade (SNG). It is not actually a mark, but a ranking, like the UAI.

Once all the grades have been recieved, the department ranks all the students in order of merit. They then allocate the top certain number of people as HD's, then D's etc..

Therefore your SNG will be based upon the strength of your competitors. Just as an example, even if you added up all your assessments and you got 90%, but the majority of other people got above 95%, you can still be left with a P grade. Many people think that they got 90% and will get a HD grade. This is not true.

By the way, it is the raw marks that are added up to rank people and the marks are in no way scaled.

Cheers.

 

[flyin']

Yes, that is the case, which is why you are less likely to achieve a higher grade if you're competiting with Actuarials at Macquarie >< (Darn, I'm competing against Actuarials in all my units!)

 

[hipsta_jess]

Originally posted by orangeguy
Once all the grades have been recieved, the department ranks all the students in order of merit. They then allocate the top certain number of people as HD's, then D's etc..

which uni's use the bell curve system? coz i dont think all of them do *crosses fingers newcastle doesnt*

 

[flyin']

Just to clarify - This thread is in the Macquarie forum. And the scaling procedure is for Macquarie. It may or may not be the same at other universities.

 

[iambored]

hmm so it's a rank. yeah i get it. it's just a matter of what % get the different HD, D, etc

 

[flamin']

There is no certain percentage that have to get a HD, D etc. etc. So the top 2%will not automatically get HDs. Thats what all I know for certain. They may boost it up a little bit if the actual raw failure rate is too large *i think*

 

[iambored]

ok, so they pick and choose?

 

[orangeguy]

There are certain cut-offs for the raw marks for different grades. For example (this is made up), A raw mark of 77 or greater would allow a HD grade. Therefore, every student who got above 77 as the raw mark would get a HD grade, then the SNG they would get would be allocated by ranking all those HD students with the last student in that group recieving 85 as the SNG.

The marks you receive in different components of the course (e.g. mid-sem test, final exam, assignments etc.) would also be taken into consideration of the SNG.

Just as an example, if you got 20/20 for mid-sem test, 20/20 for assignment but 30/60 for final, even thought your raw mark would be 70, it would be highly doubful that you would get away with anything more than a C grade at most. But another student who gets 14/20 for mid-sem test, 13/20 aassignment, 44/60 for final, could get a D grade even though the raw marks of the two students were very similar.

Different criteria are set for different subjects and these have to be taken into consideration for the distribution of SNG's.

 

[iambored]

hmm ok. this is like trying to work out the hsc marks all over again. i suppose i will understand more when it's mark time! thanks!

 

[flamin']

I think at uni, you worry less about marks. Or maybe thats just me.

 

[orangeguy]

Basically at uni, your SNG is very unpredictable if your are getting very average marks for your assesments. What i mean by average is something like 15/20, or somewhere along those lines, because you wouldnt know where other students are. However, for some subjects, the lecturer do give you the mean and median for assessments and from that you can work out where you lie in the pack. But working out your SNG from the addition of all your raw marks is quite hard. Might as well close your eyes and hope for the best, that is, unless you're at the top of the pack.

 

[iambored]

i'm reviving this thread since i have more of an idea of how uni marks work now

thanks orangeguy, i understand more of what you said now! i always intended on coming back to this thread after uni started!


so, if i have all the marks of all the people in my course, can i work out my SNG? i can't can i, because i don't know which mark they have chosen as a cut off for the particular assessment?

and i think i get SNG now. they choose which raw marks correspond to which grades, and then guve UAI-type rank marks. so if they decide that a 50 in an assessment = HD, (and if HD corresponded to 95) then people with 50 would get 95, with 60 would get about 96 etc.

 

[flyin']

I agree with what orangeguy has posted. And I'd put a general emphasis on "the Examination" performance. (Although this may not always be the case.)

Originally posted by orangeguy
Just as an example, if you got 20/20 for mid-sem test, 20/20 for assignment but 30/60 for final, even thought your raw mark would be 70, it would be highly doubful that you would get away with anything more than a C grade at most. But another student who gets 14/20 for mid-sem test, 13/20 aassignment, 44/60 for final, could get a D grade even though the raw marks of the two students were very similar.

Although extreme, orangeguy's example illustrates the idea well. Also the main reason why they might use this method is to ensure that (1) those who plagarised in earlier assignments eg. assignments, tutorials, and even class tests, aren't purely awarded high marks because they can cheat even though they don't understand the material, and (2) to ensure that the candidates understand enough of the course which should be apparent in the final examination.


Having said all that, study(!) because that will help your SNG.

Side note: Even with an average (and spread) of marks, it is still difficult if you have a small candidature (40 or less?).

 

[ND]

Originally posted by orangeguy
Lots of people always misunderstand the meaning of the mark (a number). This mark is called the standardised numerical grade (SNG). It is not actually a mark, but a ranking, like the UAI.

Once all the grades have been recieved, the department ranks all the students in order of merit. They then allocate the top certain number of people as HD's, then D's etc..

There are certain cut-offs for the raw marks for different grades. For example (this is made up), A raw mark of 77 or greater would allow a HD grade. Therefore, every student who got above 77 as the raw mark would get a HD grade, then the SNG they would get would be allocated by ranking all those HD students with the last student in that group recieving 85 as the SNG.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? First you said that they're based on percentiles or whatever, then you said it's based on a certain mark. Using the logic from the second quote, of 40% of the canditure got above 77, then 40% would get HD's, but in the first quote you said that it's a rank.

 

[orangeguy]

"Different criteria are set for different subjects and these have to be taken into consideration for the distribution of SNG's."

Its the percentile based on your mark. However different departments allocate grades differently, refer to above quote.

That is, you recieve a certain raw mark. The department determines the cut-offs for each grade, then 'ranks' every person according to their criteria. Hence, your final grade, a SNG, is a rank.

It is true that if everyone meets the department's criteria perfectly to and above their set standards with flying colours, then yes, it is possible for everyone to achieve a HD. But does this ever happen? No, because not everyone will always meet the criteria.

 

[flyin']

Originally posted by orangeguy
It is true that if everyone meets the department's criteria perfectly to and above their set standards with flying colours, then yes, it is possible for everyone to achieve a HD. But does this ever happen? No, because not everyone will always meet the criteria.

If everyone achieved flying colours, I think they'd reset the definitions regarding the grades. I mean, they'd start expecting competent students to achieve a Raw of 80 instead of 40 to Pass.

 

[ND]

Originally posted by orangeguy
It is true that if everyone meets the department's criteria perfectly to and above their set standards with flying colours, then yes, it is possible for everyone to achieve a HD. But does this ever happen? No, because not everyone will always meet the criteria.

But if everyone got HDs, then the SNG would be a mark, not a rank. (like not everyone can get a UAI above 99, no matter how well the entire canditure performs)

 

[orangeguy]

Originally posted by ND
But if everyone got HDs, then the SNG would be a mark, not a rank. (like not everyone can get a UAI above 99, no matter how well the entire canditure performs)

Not true. you will still be ranked by the SNG's defined by a HD. That is, you will be ranked from a SNG of 85 onwards. Hence you will still be ranked.

In reality this will never happen, as stated by flyin'

 

[ND]

Ah ok i get it now. Thanks.