SDD? Does any one feel this way? (1 Viewer)

[AXorCan'tStudy]

hi

well i chose sdd because i thought i will master a language by the end of yr11, because I've started coding in C++, vb, java, html and cgi at the begin of yr10. It is year12 now, I've learnt nofin and kinna regret to choose such crap subject, i meant whocares about the algorithms (i learnt coding without them, sample code from a language is fun to fiddle with) waste of time, the whole SDD development cycles seem useless. (the ethical issues blebh bleh can be arrcknowledged in one day)

documentation is mandatory, well we dont' need to worri coz the we can't even code a marketable program.( i dont' have time)

I sleep in class neva handin exercise hw da one in text book, i do good in coding however i do crap in theory or test (properly teachers don't like myanswer since those stuff aren't useful coz i can code like fly)


i kinan had enuf of SDD, stupid case studies and documentations
to bs


ENuf

Anyone here feels the same?

i reckon they should reconstruct the course.

 

[tieki]

I sort of agree with you...I mean, we've been taught a lot of stuff out of the textbook as well and no real coding, and it does tend to get boring after a while...for our major assignment, though, the documentation is worth as much as the coding, and we don't really do any coding other than assignments anyway...

 

[hurrotisrobbo]

Four weeks?! That's a bit long isn't it? I mean, we actually CODE at Uni, don't we?

We get the crap bits of IPT all over again in ICC (as far as I can tell). Fun.

 

[AXorCan'tStudy]

thx koo

might sleep till hsc is over lol

 

[tt_j65]

i do a lot of coding at school

my teacher tries to put a lot of practical stuff in but thaat means we screw up the theory which is the stuff we get tested on

 

[del]

hmm we did a bit of coding in year 12, basically anything in the syllabus that could be coded, our teacher told us to code... which was good....

ahh yeah when we did evolution of programming langs, we got to use a language from each of the paradigms to see how the syntax is formed and how they worked... that was fun.

 

[WilRic]

While I'll admit that my SDD teacher isn't exactly the most brilliant bestower of information - but you have to kind of sympathise with them considering the extreme flakyness of the course
I think when it was structured, they tried to cram far too many concepts into such a brief period of learning, so huge "chunks" of information are glazed over, or supplemented with "buzzword" concepts that have no real-world value.
Perhaps a better idea would be to get really specific, and say have "Visual Basic (or - insert another coding language here) Studies". I realise that very little theoretical information would be passed on, but come on, the theory that we get taught at the moment is either incredibly irrelevant to the industry - or far too old to be of any worth in such a fluctuating sector.
I doubt very much if anything like that would happen, as the BOS still has this strange idea that it would discriminate against schools with limited technological resources - but I think it's about time that they understood that no matter how much you try and work your way around it, real software-design can't be tought with pens and paper only, no matter how hard you try.
I think the pro's of "Mastering" a coding language (even if that language wasn't a great one) would far surpass the benefits of trying to teach the entire conception of Software Engineering in under two years.
I mean that's only one example of reform for the course, and it would present obvious problems with things like copyright of the software tools used, and "equipping" the entire state with resources etc. - but I think something needs to be done, because as it stands Software Design & Development is really utter crap.

 

[SamD]

Try writing and maintaining a commercial software package with no planning or documentation. It certainly never happens in the real world with long term successful applications.

When I first started programming I had similar views to those mentioned above, however once you have to upgrade your own crap code for many years you start to see the real value of all that planning and documentation. It really saves you time and it certainly saves on support calls and costs.

Obviously I don't write algortihms for every routine, but for the really tricky stuff I do. I now write as many comments as I do lines of code, it really makes it so much easier to maintain/upgrade.

 

[Winston]

I believe documentation is a crucial factor i mean i myself isnt too much of a serious coder, and i just understand bits and pieces, but in terms of planning its a crucial thing it shows how your application has evolved during the process of development, i mean i've been reading learning Visual Basic should be sufficient for this course, most of the psuedocode's syntax is very VB like, i mean except for the control structures are named differently like

Psuedo : WHILE
Visual Basic : Do While


but i do believe its just understanding the concepts and then seeing how it's exactly applied in reality,

If you know Pascal it will be much more easier as well

Psuedo code and Pascal syntax is the most similar out of all languages i believe...

but anyway, i think without the theory i wouldn't understand it too well.... i mean teaching you to re-use code etc...

believe me i've seen people programming in VB in my class and they have the same code for every button because they don't know how to Call the block of code and re-use it...

 

[del]

information classification and control......

part accounting...... which makes no sense to me

 

[Rahul]

Originally posted by Bon

What's ICC? Sounds yucky..

international cricket council....somehow i dont think that would fit into the context

 

[krisk85]

fully agree... i dont even understand most of hte stuff my teacher explains.. sometimes i do like the maths parts.. but hte rest of it goes well over my head.. i try to get him to explain it to me again.. but it just doesnt register.. he hasnt really got a teaching voice and no emotion and it is all just hte same tone all teh way through so quite annoying..

anyway looks like i gotta study the book my self for half yearlies.. 'fun'

later all

 

[AXorCan'tStudy]

documentation is annoying, BOS thinks documentation can explain everyfin, but that's not true. intrinsic coding does most of internal documentation
if you read the header of c++ library u realise there isn't much internal comments

Some tasks get too simple, no documentation is required to understand code so documentation becomes a waste of time. Some logic process get 2 complex, they became abstract and like funtion name would automatically explain what they do. I just realised documentation like a user guide isn't that useful 4 the new generation users, ppl like us do we look at documentation/ help file ever when using internet explorer??

they r flaws in every aspect of documentation, they r useless piece of crap a waste of time.(except the mandatory term o c )
no one writes complete program on algorithm or flowchart before coding, only a bit complex one, very complex one can't v done on paper, we do a rough plan to show what we need to code
we use logbook rather than "gantt chart"(stupid BOS term)
stfu is system flowchart? dataflow diagram? just damn and use the program and understand how it works
decision tree tables, u can't list all the decision u made in a big program can u?
ipo chart- self explanatory
test data table- kinna useful but you neva keep a record of it, once the program is debugged and said to be completed, the function/module is finished there is no need to keep it

i don't fink any modern developer write them, they just describe the object parameter, function, nature so other developer can use it(that's why u don't c any those crap chart on msdn do u?), and create a very intuitive, automated program to avoid newbie documentation

and the approach to the software developing, stfu is "RAD wif case tools", "structural prototype", "enduser", i have neva heard them in any programming language forum/chat community, just go there and program and find the easiest way out(coz coder is always lazy), i might use prototype approach for developing user interface, and use RAD to develope code, case tools to make some other fin(html), i might use end user program (excelaces) to make a query and put it in vb code. U can't categorise the way developers program.
Any wot is designing, implementation, maintenance crap? I can redefine my objectives if it doesn't suit me well and change it in implementation stage, and still get it done. BOS said you can't redefine objectives unless restart the whole development cycle.

last word, se developers are very smart (i would say smartest than any one do law, actuacrial, $$medicine, creative, logical, communicate well, friendly(soical enginnering heheloljk))), they noe how to manage project, they DON"T need to be taught how it to be done by BOS n00bs, it is a creative subject rather than learn management noob "techniques, terms" from BOS.

da onli fink i found it useful, is the ethical issues, logic gate part, comp history, concept of OOP, how arithmetric is performed in binary

stpuid se, such a fuxx up course
can't get high mark and waste so much time learnnin rubbish

every 1 watch bos gonna remove all those management crap in next syllabus

 

[del]

logbook and gantt chart are both used in the syllabus - might be called journal though......and actually are used in the real world.

as for documentation, it may seem like something not important to the course, but in business they actually do use them... suprise suprise...

only about a month ago i was at a meeting looking through folders documenting a business project, and yes there were gantt charts, logbooks with documentation of communication that had taken place, and all the system documentation like storyboards etc

for development approaches, that's why when you get a question you always reply with a 'combination of approaches' then justify with examples like you did.

anyway that's just my experiences and opinion.

 

[jm1234567890]

i agree the ethical and social issues are pretty pointless to learn since they are all jus common sence.

HOWEVER, in SDD you do learn about project management and how to write "good" code which are useful in real life.

It also gives a chance for people who don't know how to code, a chance to have a go.

personally i am just doing the course for high marks, i am just attending 1-2 periods a week and comming first in class.

 

[The Oracle]

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
documentation is annoying, BOS thinks documentation can explain everyfin, but that's not true. intrinsic coding does most of internal documentation
if you read the header of c++ library u realise there isn't much internal comments

Documentation is neccessary, especially when working for a top ranked company, e.g IBM. Several other people will read your code, and will use your code, and before using any of it, will thoroughly review your code.

If proper internal or external documentation is not used, then understanding a 1000 line script can be a hassle. To be most efficient, the company will require you to provide documentation for all coding.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
Some tasks get too simple, no documentation is required to understand code so documentation becomes a waste of time. Some logic process get 2 complex, they became abstract and like funtion name would automatically explain what they do. I just realised documentation like a user guide isn't that useful 4 the new generation users, ppl like us do we look at documentation/ help file ever when using internet explorer??

I understand what you are saying. Again, top ranked companies, or any company for that matter would not simply "Copy and Paste" codes into their own programs. They want to know what each line is doing. Internet Explorer doesn't need documentation because it is an integrated system on any windows platform. Whether you click MyComputer MyDocuments or any File Managing link in windows, all the concepts are the same. Back Forward etc.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
they r flaws in every aspect of documentation, they r useless piece of crap a waste of time.(except the mandatory term o c )
no one writes complete program on algorithm or flowchart before coding, only a bit complex one, very complex one can't v done on paper, we do a rough plan to show what we need to code
we use logbook rather than "gantt chart"(stupid BOS term)
stfu is system flowchart? dataflow diagram? just damn and use the program and understand how it works
decision tree tables, u can't list all the decision u made in a big program can u?
ipo chart- self explanatory
test data table- kinna useful but you neva keep a record of it, once the program is debugged and said to be completed, the function/module is finished there is no need to keep it

Yes, no "programmers" write algorithms before coding, but an overall picture is needed for the big bosses. You can't show the big bosses C++ coding. They just want to know what is going to happen, and how.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
i don't fink any modern developer write them, they just describe the object parameter, function, nature so other developer can use it(that's why u don't c any those crap chart on msdn do u?), and create a very intuitive, automated program to avoid newbie documentation

You keep reffering to the programmers point of view. The SDD course isn't there to train all HSC students to be hardcore programs.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
and the approach to the software developing, stfu is "RAD wif case tools", "structural prototype", "enduser", i have neva heard them in any programming language forum/chat community, just go there and program and find the easiest way out(coz coder is always lazy), i might use prototype approach for developing user interface, and use RAD to develope code, case tools to make some other fin(html), i might use end user program (excelaces) to make a query and put it in vb code. U can't categorise the way developers program.
Any wot is designing, implementation, maintenance crap? I can redefine my objectives if it doesn't suit me well and change it in implementation stage, and still get it done. BOS said you can't redefine objectives unless restart the whole development cycle.

Designing, implementation, maintenance is a touchy topic. Unless you run something great, you wouldn't know what goes behind all the top notch programs.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
last word, se developers are very smart (i would say smartest than any one do law, actuacrial, $$medicine, creative, logical, communicate well, friendly(soical enginnering heheloljk))), they noe how to manage project, they DON"T need to be taught how it to be done by BOS n00bs, it is a creative subject rather than learn management noob "techniques, terms" from BOS.

If not taught, why don't they just start working at the age of 5, when they can walk and talk?

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
da onli fink i found it useful, is the ethical issues, logic gate part, comp history, concept of OOP, how arithmetric is performed in binary

Yes, maybe for you, but the average student has alot to learn.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
stpuid se, such a fuxx up course
can't get high mark and waste so much time learnnin rubbish

If you know so much about programming and programs, then you should be advantaged in this course.

Originally posted by AXorCan'tStudy
every 1 watch bos gonna remove all those management crap in next syllabus

The SDD course isn't aimed at people that started programming at the age of 10. It has to suit most of the students. I am not sure about that. We will see.

 

[Snapwizard]

Originally posted by jm1234567890
i agree the ethical and social issues are pretty pointless to learn since they are all jus common sence.

HOWEVER, in SDD you do learn about project management and how to write "good" code which are useful in real life.

It also gives a chance for people who don't know how to code, a chance to have a go.

personally i am just doing the course for high marks, i am just attending 1-2 periods a week and comming first in class.

Man u people take this subject too seriously, the key is to enjoy ur self!!!!
Coding is very hard and so is algorthims and to the original question , yes i should have never chosen it ,lol but now that i have i'll give 100%

 

[The Oracle]

Coding is really piss easy. So are algorithms

If you find it hard.... well...

Good luck in da H S C !

 

[del]

meh pseudocode is a breeze...

it's pretty much like a programming language... well programming languages are more like it rather. Not a waste of time me thinks, if you know pseudo... you can code pretty much using any language... general syntax is all the same anywayz...

 

[del]

hmm.....
still seem kinda the same to me... even functional languages.... logic languages are slightly different but they still have selection statements.....

what i rather should say is pseudo provides you with the basics.... look at assembly code and u can make out what it does because you know what control structures are etc etc......

meh anywayz that how it is for me..........