Selective High Schools & Scaling in the HSC (1 Viewer)

[phoenix159]

Does going to a selective high school make it easier or harder for me to get a good ATAR?

Subjects for Year 12:

* Maths Ext 1
* English (Advanced)
* Physics
* Chemistry
* Economics

 

[braintic]

It certainly doesn't make it harder. Many people try to argue that your mark somehow gets lifted up automatically by being with a better cohort. That is not how the scaling system works. If you come first at your old school you could very well come 120th at a selective school. So the average school mark is higher but you are further down the list. All things being equal, you should get the same mark regardless of the school you attend.

However, not all things are equal. You tend to get slightly better teachers in a selective school, though it is not a significant trend. The main reason that your marks should improve by going to a selective school is greater competition, and the resulting ability of teachers to teach high-end material.

 

[phoenix159]

Thanks!

 

[flashyGoldFish]

Being somehow who spent most of his schooling at a 'shit school' with a top half of smart kids and a dumb half of complete idiots and finishing off my schooling at a selective school Im probably in a really good position to compare. (but also compare year size of about 60 at the shit school to about 180 at the selective so those factors also come into play- and the choice of subjects where the shit school encouraged easier subjects regardless of where you wanted to go after whilst the selective discouraged crap subjects regardless).

Depends where you are. Top of either will have no difference. Its gets dicey in the middle. The topper middle were better off at the selective school but those at the lower middle at the selective, to lower, were severely disadvatanged coming out with much lower atars than people around the middle of the shit school despite being considerably smarter.

But thats very confusing, poorly explained and too small a sample size to say this is the case

 

[iEatOysters]

It certainly doesn't make it harder. Many people try to argue that your mark somehow gets lifted up automatically by being with a better cohort. That is not how the scaling system works. If you come first at your old school you could very well come 120th at a selective school. So the average school mark is higher but you are further down the list. All things being equal, you should get the same mark regardless of the school you attend.

However, not all things are equal. You tend to get slightly better teachers in a selective school, though it is not a significant trend. The main reason that your marks should improve by going to a selective school is greater competition, and the resulting ability of teachers to teach high-end material.

No, this is not true. Selective schools have their share of sub-par teachers. My friend (who came from a public, non-selective school) was appalled at the state of our science faculty. She says that while the teachers at her old school are better, the students attending our school are more motivated and are therefore achieving better results. Everything ultimately depends on the individual and their desire to learn and achieve.

 

[mariannebags]

It will only effect things because you are human ie study harder because you have a lot of competition, or give up because you don't come first. Your atar etc are calculated by computers who don't care about the name of the school.
Human factors such as the quality of the teaching etc do exist but hard to predict.

As a teacher, I know that having very compliant students can make teachers less imaginative with their teaching, as they know they will to have little trouble with their students. I have started teaching at an all girls school, and do feel students are allowed to do nothing meaningful more often because they don't cause a riot, which might happen if there were male students. All these things are generalisations, but teachers are human too.

 

[braintic]

As a teacher, I know that having very compliant students can make teachers less imaginative with their teaching, as they know they will to have little trouble with their students.

As a teacher in a selective school, I can say that this is absolute nonsense. The smarter and more responsive are the students, the MORE effort a teacher is willing to put in.
Also nonsense is your description in other posts about the process of allocating of HSC assessment marks.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Average ranks in a shitty school (rank 500 +) ... GG atar. Average ranks in a top 50 school = saved (unless you do really bad).

It is really hard to get a 95+ at a bad school .. Let alone a 90. If you get the same mark (around the 70 or 80s) in externals (in relation to if you went to a shit school), and had the same ranks, you would be pushed up at a top 50 ranked school.

 

[braintic]

Average ranks in a shitty school (rank 500 +) ... GG atar. Average ranks in a top 50 school = saved (unless you do really bad).

It is really hard to get a 95+ at a bad school .. Let alone a 90. If you get the same mark (around the 70 or 80s) in externals (in relation to if you went to a shit school), and had the same ranks, you would be pushed up at a top 50 ranked school.

Why would you get the same ranks in a top school as you would in a lowly school? Of course your ranks would be lower in a better school.
Sorry, but you don't understand the system.