Should we be proud of our history? (2 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

I don't think we should take pride in our history because we didn't do anything. We should acknowledge the great/not so great things our forefathers have done but there's no need to get proud about it imo :/

You're kidding. Right?

 

[Enteebee]

No, I don't think people should be proud of the achievements of their country/their parents/their family/their race. I'm fine with people acknowledging and respecting such achievements, but as far as I understand what it means to be 'proud' it has to do with your personal identity... so when you say you're proud of australian history it means you feel like you're a greater person due to this history.

 

[Snaykew]

some things we hav to regret obviously, but we shud be proud of positive achievements, and express regret at the bad things?

That would be a logical thing but stupid people think we can only be proud of all our history or none of it. Extremist talk.

 

[S1M0]

There have been certain moments in our history that makes us proud to be Australian. Likewise, there have been moments in our history that has arguably done the opposite.

So by utilising our ability to analyse things in a rational and logical manner, we should be proud of the positive moments, and look down, but still acknowledge, our lesser moments.

 

[Magicana]

I hope you're joking when you said the Poms did nothing wrong.



Want links to things what Poms did to Abo's? Like e.g in Tasmania they round up abo's like a cattle in a farm and made them starve to death, plague with disease, children women etc died. and those tribes are actually extincted now.

As opposed to the Black people in countries like Rwanda and Zimbabwe who never do things like that?

NO!

FCUK BRITISH COLONIZATION OF AUSTRALIA & GENOCIDE OF ABORIGINAL



I'm no abo though

I believe that it shouldn't be called genocide if the job isn't done. However, yes, "fcuk" British colonization, because without it, you wouldn't be here you arrogant Jew loving anti-Australian piece of shit.

 

[yourfacehere!]

Taking Australian history as the history recorded in an empirical fashion since 1788, and being "proud" or Australian history as looking back over that history with a sense of patriotism, then yeah I think it is quite possible to be proud of our history.

An essential feature of this debate should be a comparison with the individual histories of different nations across the globe. In comparison to the vast majority with a history of over 200 years, Australia is fairly clean. While the atrocities committed against Aboriginal people and the recent anti-Islamic violence stand out as blotches in Australian history, the Americans actually fought a full-scale war over slavery; man killed man defending his 'right' to enslave another human being. There is hardly a nation in the world that can claim to have possessing a spotless history, though in comparison, Australia comes out quite well.

Australian history has its very dark moments, the stolen generation and initial genocidal action towards Aboriginal people are pre-eminent, and should be taught in Australian history in schools for obvious reasons. But they do have to be viewed in a broader context - in 1967, a 98% majority voted to give citizenship rights to Aboriginal people, and in 1901 giving such rights to indigenous people was unheard of; it would have been nice to lead the way, but the fact that we didn't shouldn't prevent a positive reading of Australian history.

The simple fact is that Australian history since 1788 is overwhelmingly positive when viewed in a global context. And for that, we should be proud. One doesn't have to get overly nationalistic about it; our involvement in all wars has been of little significance - Kokoda was brave and undeniably brilliant, but Australia did not win WWII, the Allies (of which Australia was a minor member) did - and the Cronulla riots do little to present Australia to the world as a textbook multicultural society. But we are a nation with a fantastic individual culture and cultures, we're educated, prosperous and contributing more than our fair share to the global economy, and we're pretty good at swimming. For a nation that hit 20 million only recently, we're doing pretty well.

We have a strong history, with more highs than lows, and therefore I personally look back over the history of Australia since 1788 with some level of pride.

 

[campbellleo]

OK, bizarre Nazi twist that this thread has take aside, I think it is weird to be proud of our history. History is just generally that -- weird. I mean:

a) We can never know if what we are told is what happened; as anyone who does ancient/modern/extension history knows, a lot of what we hear is bullshit, biased, misconstrued, exagerrated or otherwise. I'm not saying that means we shouldn't bother speculating - it's human nature, after all - but to be proud of something that is about as provable as God (ok, maybe not that bad) seems bizarre to me.

b) History has so little real bearing on who we are. Think about it: does whether or not we committed genocide against the aboriginal people in the 18th and 19th centuries change how we should act to them now? Racism is wrong in any context; apologising for something we can't prove and didn't personally cause is not only unconstructive but patronising. I am not saying we shouldn't be sorry it happened - it is an unspeakable tragedy - but can you imagine a five-year-old German girl going to a man who had survived Auchwitz and saying she was sorry? Bizarre. And kind of perverted. We can do what we can to learn about and preserve the culture that we may have almost destroyed, but the Aboriginal peoples deserve our understanding and respect, as most other cultures do (Nazis and supporters of Pauline Hanson notwithstanding).

c) How can we possibly feel pride of 'our' history? Jesus, we're not some sort of cult, or family. We are 20 million people on the same block of land. You seriously think that some recently 'naturalised' citizen is should for some reason feel pride in the (possible) unrelated actions that some guy did a thousand kilometres away and sixty years ago? Respect: hell yes. Admiration: definitely. Pride? Ridiculous. It would be like you becoming a German citizen and assuming the guilt for the Holocaust.
It is no different for people born there. The concept that I was born in Australia, and am therefore part of whatever sacrifice some great men made back then is tantalising, but ultimately false.

I genuinely believe it is not a matter of taking the good with the bad, the guilt with the pride. I think we can be guilty and proud of what happens in our lifetime, insomuch as we are able to prevent/aid it. Past that, we really are dabbling in self-aggrandisement to claim we are somehow responsible for things that happened before we were born. Which, really, doesn't say much for how much we respect the sacrifices that may have been made.

 

[yourfacehere!]

Don't you find that perspective a little overly cynical?

Firstly, while inconsistencies in the general understanding exist, I think all can agree on a simple narrative that involves a number of high points and low points. To get caught up in the postmodern perspective is to lose the essential purpose of history as it is widely understood - to reflect, learn and appreciate. It sounds idealistic and a little soppy, but that is the how at least I understand it.

Secondly, while obviously brand new citizens are not expected to feel overwhelming pride for the history of a nation they have had a very brief association with (the new citizenship test aside), I think most that have had a long and deep association and place in the history of Australia can feel some pride.
Pride doesn't mean nationalism or cronulla-style patriotism. It is simply looking back over the known history of Australia and feeling some sense of pride to be a part of that history. That doesn't have to involve tattoos and boxer shorts, its just a personal and communal sense that I think is experienced by most.

I think it is possible to feel pride, quietly, subtly and probably even subconsciously, for Australian history. It isn't a dominating or overly evident thing - its just a minor sense that most have for their nation.

 

[el gwapo]

Let's not delve into the postmodernist "history"- that's like calling nazis, democrats: all for the sake of destroying democracy itself.

I don't see why Australians should be ashamed of their history; for starters it does nothing helpful to actually solving the problem (which I'll go back to later) and also every country has their own 'shameful' issues in the grand, national, metanarrative history. e.g. that arguably France's most famous citoyen, Napoleon Bonaparte, led around 900 000 Frenchmen to their deaths in decades of war.

Anyway that's going off the point. I don't think Australia's history is anything significant to be ashamed of. But the 'Aboginal' issue must be solved, we can't have people like Windshuttle arguing Aboriginal-White conflicts occured like flashes in a pan. Well, at least I find his argument hard to swallow.

 

[Magicana]

Well to make a point to you my ill-advised friend I'm fairly sure the Jews are thankful to the British being that they created the nation of Israel after your compatriots scurried.

Morons! Aplenty!

I didn't say he was a Jew, I said he was a jew lover. Big difference.

Not to mention that the Jew's are pissed because they didn't get the East Bank too, and Truman stated that they were the most arrogant of all the POW's they had to deal with.

 

[LCollins]

Taking Australian history as the history recorded in an empirical fashion since 1788, and being "proud" or Australian history as looking back over that history with a sense of patriotism, then yeah I think it is quite possible to be proud of our history.

An essential feature of this debate should be a comparison with the individual histories of different nations across the globe. In comparison to the vast majority with a history of over 200 years, Australia is fairly clean. While the atrocities committed against Aboriginal people and the recent anti-Islamic violence stand out as blotches in Australian history, the Americans actually fought a full-scale war over slavery; man killed man defending his 'right' to enslave another human being. There is hardly a nation in the world that can claim to have possessing a spotless history, though in comparison, Australia comes out quite well.

Australian history has its very dark moments, the stolen generation and initial genocidal action towards Aboriginal people are pre-eminent, and should be taught in Australian history in schools for obvious reasons. But they do have to be viewed in a broader context - in 1967, a 98% majority voted to give citizenship rights to Aboriginal people, and in 1901 giving such rights to indigenous people was unheard of; it would have been nice to lead the way, but the fact that we didn't shouldn't prevent a positive reading of Australian history.

The simple fact is that Australian history since 1788 is overwhelmingly positive when viewed in a global context. And for that, we should be proud. One doesn't have to get overly nationalistic about it; our involvement in all wars has been of little significance - Kokoda was brave and undeniably brilliant, but Australia did not win WWII, the Allies (of which Australia was a minor member) did - and the Cronulla riots do little to present Australia to the world as a textbook multicultural society. But we are a nation with a fantastic individual culture and cultures, we're educated, prosperous and contributing more than our fair share to the global economy, and we're pretty good at swimming. For a nation that hit 20 million only recently, we're doing pretty well.

We have a strong history, with more highs than lows, and therefore I personally look back over the history of Australia since 1788 with some level of pride.

The best post of the thread. Good stuff.

 

[dieburndie]

Taking Australian history as the history recorded in an empirical fashion since 1788, and being "proud" or Australian history as looking back over that history with a sense of patriotism, then yeah I think it is quite possible to be proud of our history.

An essential feature of this debate should be a comparison with the individual histories of different nations across the globe. In comparison to the vast majority with a history of over 200 years, Australia is fairly clean. While the atrocities committed against Aboriginal people and the recent anti-Islamic violence stand out as blotches in Australian history, the Americans actually fought a full-scale war over slavery; man killed man defending his 'right' to enslave another human being. There is hardly a nation in the world that can claim to have possessing a spotless history, though in comparison, Australia comes out quite well.

Australian history has its very dark moments, the stolen generation and initial genocidal action towards Aboriginal people are pre-eminent, and should be taught in Australian history in schools for obvious reasons. But they do have to be viewed in a broader context - in 1967, a 98% majority voted to give citizenship rights to Aboriginal people, and in 1901 giving such rights to indigenous people was unheard of; it would have been nice to lead the way, but the fact that we didn't shouldn't prevent a positive reading of Australian history.

The simple fact is that Australian history since 1788 is overwhelmingly positive when viewed in a global context. And for that, we should be proud. One doesn't have to get overly nationalistic about it; our involvement in all wars has been of little significance - Kokoda was brave and undeniably brilliant, but Australia did not win WWII, the Allies (of which Australia was a minor member) did - and the Cronulla riots do little to present Australia to the world as a textbook multicultural society. But we are a nation with a fantastic individual culture and cultures, we're educated, prosperous and contributing more than our fair share to the global economy, and we're pretty good at swimming. For a nation that hit 20 million only recently, we're doing pretty well.

We have a strong history, with more highs than lows, and therefore I personally look back over the history of Australia since 1788 with some level of pride.

Could you perhaps be more specific about what makes Australian history "overwhelmingly positive when viewed in a global context"? Your post points out aspects of said history which range from negative to mediocre. Then you draw your conclusion based on Australia's current state, which is in most areas only the outcome of a small fragment of what has occurred since 1788.

I also think that making comparisons between Australian history and that of other nations says much more about them than us. If I kill 10 aborigines and you rape, enslave and then kill 100, what I did was comparatively positive. That isn't really a useful way to judge my actions.

I'm not proud of Australia's history because I find it boring and uneventful mostly. And because I tend to be proud of things I made some contribution towards.

 

[RTTTYTR]

Shouldn't we be focused on the future and not rest on our laurels?