Skilled migration (1 Viewer)

[Enlightened_One]

I was listening to ABC radio national's Counterpoint last night and they were discussing how skilled immigration is taking the jobs of Australian students. There were a number of interesting points raised including:

-There is, in IT, a thirty percent unemployment rate for graduating Australian students. In most other areas it is somewhere around 15 - 20%
-An overseas student only has to complete a one year or two year course (for IT), whereas an Australian student is required to complete a three year degree. Thus there is a problem with some of them taking jobs they are not properly equipped for.
-Universities recieve $17000 for an international student and $12000 for an Australian student in the same course.
-Thirty percent of those who study in Australia apply for a permanent working visa.
-Some of those studying from overseas have stated that they consider an Australian visa more important than a job.
-The very reason there are a lot of overseas positions in IT has to do with a skills shortage at the turn of the millenium and just after and now that Australians are entering the IT courses to fill this gap the intake of overseas students has not been lessened. I gather it is similiar with other courses.
-There have been significant new places at university created for overseas students at the expense of Australian students.

All this comes from the radio program which I'll provide a link for, though I can't really find a transcript. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/counterpoint/stories/s1563333.htm

And finally, there was Kim Beazley's accusation (which has not been disproven and thus I assume is true) that 300,000 Australians had been turned away from tertiary education and during the same time 270,000 migrants have been accepted in their place.


So, what do you all think about this?

 

[veterandoggy]

almost want to forget about doing B computing this year...

 

[Carnivour]

What do you think about it?

I hope it remains as easy to get permanent residency as you make it out to be.

I have lived in Australia since the age of 7, all on a visa. My family in Russia is going through hell to put me through uni here. Before you say anything, the thought of going back to Russia scares the big Jesus out of me.
So, yeah, I'm in that very boat, and yeah, I hope I can immigrate here on skilled migration.
What REALLY ticks me off, is that people who come here on a boat, through the so-called back door have more chance of obtaining permanent residency within 1 year than people like myself who have lived here almost 10 years, and have nothing to show for it.

That's my 2 cents on how skilled migration affect me. no hard feelings, Australia.

 

[banco55]

Skilled migration can plug holes in the labour market the problem is when it's used as a band aid to cover up defecits in our education system. We should only be taking in skilled migrants and there should be no family reunion bullshit. They should be able to bring in their immediate family and that's it. We should also take into account not just what skills they have but how likely they are to be able to adapt to australian society. No muslims in other words.

 

[davin]

i think carnivour brings up the good point in that whats the point of one process of immigration when a back door system undermines it

 

[Raginsheep]

I hope it remains as easy to get permanent residency as you make it out to be.

I have lived in Australia since the age of 7, all on a visa. My family in Russia is going through hell to put me through uni here. Before you say anything, the thought of going back to Russia scares the big Jesus out of me.
So, yeah, I'm in that very boat, and yeah, I hope I can immigrate here on skilled migration.
What REALLY ticks me off, is that people who come here on a boat, through the so-called back door have more chance of obtaining permanent residency within 1 year than people like myself who have lived here almost 10 years, and have nothing to show for it.

That's my 2 cents on how skilled migration affect me. no hard feelings, Australia.

? Im not 100% clear on this but what makes it hard for you to get perm residency considering you've been here since 7?

But I agree, I know lots of people who do certain degrees just for the visa.

 

[banco55]

I hope it remains as easy to get permanent residency as you make it out to be.

I have lived in Australia since the age of 7, all on a visa. My family in Russia is going through hell to put me through uni here. Before you say anything, the thought of going back to Russia scares the big Jesus out of me.
So, yeah, I'm in that very boat, and yeah, I hope I can immigrate here on skilled migration.
What REALLY ticks me off, is that people who come here on a boat, through the so-called back door have more chance of obtaining permanent residency within 1 year than people like myself who have lived here almost 10 years, and have nothing to show for it.

That's my 2 cents on how skilled migration affect me. no hard feelings, Australia.

Marry an australian. Problem solved.

 

[Generator]

I was listening to ABC radio national's Counterpoint last night and they were discussing how skilled immigration is taking the jobs of Australian students. There were a number of interesting points raised including:

-There have been significant new places at university created for overseas students at the expense of Australian students.

All this comes from the radio program which I'll provide a link for, though I can't really find a transcript. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/counterpoint/stories/s1563333.htm

And finally, there was Kim Beazley's accusation (which has not been disproven and thus I assume is true) that 300,000 Australians had been turned away from tertiary education and during the same time 270,000 migrants have been accepted in their place.

As has been stated many times in the past, places for overseas students are offered in addition to those available for local students. As for Beazley's statement, I guess that it is true, but we must keep in mind that these 300000 Australians were probably turned away because they didn't meet the required standards and that the international students pay through the nose for the privilege to study at our institutions.

The tertiary education sector is overly-dependent on international student fees, but it isn't as though such students are taking 'our' places.

i think carnivour brings up the good point in that whats the point of one process of immigration when a back door system undermines it

What is this back door system, davin?

If anything is undermining the immigration system, it's the department itself.

 

[Carnivour]

? Im not 100% clear on this but what makes it hard for you to get perm residency considering you've been here since 7?

let me enlighten you, all australians i have met are perplexed by exactly the same thing.

theres no category for migration because i dont classify as a refugee, i have no skills beyond high-school education, i have no close family here (apart from my brother, whom it took 9 years to obtain citizenship, and he did it on the basis of his b engineering here). theres no category for i fit it, just because i have lived here for all of my so-called "formative years".

i have actually lived here away from my parents because a long long time ago my parents decided they would do anything possibly to get me and my brother out of russia, at the cost of having a normal family. while i was studying here in high school both my parents were denied even a guardianship visa, we were never actually even given a clear reason why that was so.

it amazes me day to day that australia is considered one of the most welcoming countries for foreigners who have never even stepped foot in the place, but for me, someone to whom russia is as far as the moon, while australia is the place i have grown up in, the only place i ever want to live in because alllll of my friends, everything i have ever known and wanted to remember is here in australia. it seems unbelievable to me that my family has to pump a further $110,000 into the australian economy for me to finally be made welcome here.

and the backdoors are such things as refugee immigration, big business migration, marriage.

/bitterness.

 

[davin]

so get married.

though yeah, you're highlighting a problem with immigration. that you can go through the system and it takes years, but those using the backdoors get in quicker.
esp refugee immigration. give em visas, perhaps, but don't just say "fine, front of the line"

 

[Carnivour]

so get married.

im 17. yeah, i fully want to get married right now.

but i DO want to live in australia right now, go to uni here, enjoy being young here, the place where i believe i deserve to live on the same basis as all the other people i grew up with.

 

[davin]

well, i mean, they don't deport after divorce, i don't think

anyway, was not a serious suggestion

 

[banco55]

let me enlighten you, all australians i have met are perplexed by exactly the same thing.

theres no category for migration because i dont classify as a refugee, i have no skills beyond high-school education, i have no close family here (apart from my brother, whom it took 9 years to obtain citizenship, and he did it on the basis of his b engineering here). theres no category for i fit it, just because i have lived here for all of my so-called "formative years".

i have actually lived here away from my parents because a long long time ago my parents decided they would do anything possibly to get me and my brother out of russia, at the cost of having a normal family. while i was studying here in high school both my parents were denied even a guardianship visa, we were never actually even given a clear reason why that was so.

it amazes me day to day that australia is considered one of the most welcoming countries for foreigners who have never even stepped foot in the place, but for me, someone to whom russia is as far as the moon, while australia is the place i have grown up in, the only place i ever want to live in because alllll of my friends, everything i have ever known and wanted to remember is here in australia. it seems unbelievable to me that my family has to pump a further $110,000 into the australian economy for me to finally be made welcome here.

and the backdoors are such things as refugee immigration, big business migration, marriage.

/bitterness.

It's all relative. Try immigrating to any of the Asian countries and see how far you get. By world standards australia is a welcoming country for immigrants. My parents went to russia a year or so ago and said the whole country seemed clinically depressed so I can see why you wouldn't want to go back there.

 

[Raginsheep]

let me enlighten you, all australians i have met are perplexed by exactly the same thing.

theres no category for migration because i dont classify as a refugee, i have no skills beyond high-school education, i have no close family here (apart from my brother, whom it took 9 years to obtain citizenship, and he did it on the basis of his b engineering here). theres no category for i fit it, just because i have lived here for all of my so-called "formative years".

i have actually lived here away from my parents because a long long time ago my parents decided they would do anything possibly to get me and my brother out of russia, at the cost of having a normal family. while i was studying here in high school both my parents were denied even a guardianship visa, we were never actually even given a clear reason why that was so.

it amazes me day to day that australia is considered one of the most welcoming countries for foreigners who have never even stepped foot in the place, but for me, someone to whom russia is as far as the moon, while australia is the place i have grown up in, the only place i ever want to live in because alllll of my friends, everything i have ever known and wanted to remember is here in australia. it seems unbelievable to me that my family has to pump a further $110,000 into the australian economy for me to finally be made welcome here.

and the backdoors are such things as refugee immigration, big business migration, marriage.

/bitterness.

Do accounting. Get your degree and you get perm residency then do what you want.

 

[Sparcod]

Skilled migration?

Ok. Fair game.
Skilled migrants are a contribution to our economy. We say that they 'steal' jobs. That's only if they are more qualified than us aussies because there are more people competing for the one job. Exclusion of foreigners is called discrimination.

There's a doctor shortage. We need more doctors, even if they're from overseas- as long as they are qualified, experienced and speak fluent english. There's a shortage of engineers too. You can either encourage immigration or increase uni places. (Which is cheaper?)

 

[Carnivour]

Re: Skilled migration?

=There's a doctor shortage. We need more doctors, even if they're from overseas- as long as they are qualified, experienced and speak fluent english. (Which is cheaper?)

The reason why there is such a chronic shortage of doctors is because the Australian Medical Boards sets such insanely high standards, which the federal government has been attempting for combat for a long time now, because realistically lots more people are capable of being perfectly qualified and capable doctors if only they let more in.
On the other hand, the standards are seriously lowered (although a quota still remains, I believe) for international students as long as they pay close to 40K a year in tuition.
So, in reality, its a win-win situation for the government because they are adressing the shortage of doctors (to an extent) whilst pumping money into their education system.

 

[Enlightened_One]

Re: Skilled migration?

Ok. Fair game.
Skilled migrants are a contribution to our economy. We say that they 'steal' jobs. That's only if they are more qualified than us aussies because there are more people competing for the one job. Exclusion of foreigners is called discrimination.

There's a doctor shortage. We need more doctors, even if they're from overseas- as long as they are qualified, experienced and speak fluent english. There's a shortage of engineers too. You can either encourage immigration or increase uni places. (Which is cheaper?)

The program I listened to, and therefore where I gained the information to start the thread. The man who was being interviewed had something to do with the IT industry and thus the only examples referred to the IT industry. In case you didn't read my original post I'll repeat the main points:

There is, in IT, a thirty percent unemployment rate for graduating Australian students. In most other areas it is somewhere around 15 - 20%
-An overseas student only has to complete a one year or two year course (for IT), whereas an Australian student is required to complete a three year degree. Thus there is a problem with some of them taking jobs they are not properly equipped for.
-Universities recieve $17000 for an international student and $12000 for an Australian student in the same course.
-Thirty percent of those who study in Australia apply for a permanent working visa.
-Some of those studying from overseas have stated that they consider an Australian visa more important than a job.
-The very reason there are a lot of overseas positions in IT has to do with a skills shortage at the turn of the millenium and just after and now that Australians are entering the IT courses to fill this gap the intake of overseas students has not been lessened. I gather it is similiar with other courses.
-There have been significant new places at university created for overseas students at the expense of Australian students


And finally, there was Kim Beazley's accusation (which has not been disproven and thus I assume is true) that 300,000 Australians had been turned away from tertiary education and during the same time 270,000 migrants have been accepted in their place.



My point was, that in courses such as IT there are many domestic graduates who are losing out on places to overseas people, and, in IT at least, a fair few (maybe even the majority) are not properly qualified.

I didn't say we should turn away doctors and engineers. I believe we should restrict working visas in industries that can be cometently filled by domestic students and therefore invest in our own future.


By the way, does anyone ever think about the fact that for every foreign worker here on a visa some other country is down one skileld worker. How many doctors and engineers are we poaching from places that are worse off than we are. Shouldn't we be pumping out enough doctors and engineers to fill our own places as well as assisting foreigners to study here and return to their homeland.

EDIT: No offence Carnviour, I'm not suggesting you return, in fact I hope you stay, but there are places, such as India, where they are in urgent need of medical help yet we are enticing their doctors over here instead of helping create more domestic doctors and then giving aid to those overseas who need it.