SMH Opinion: No time to learn for learning's sake when a degree is at stake (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

lecturer's don't exist to teach. they exist to research, so if they can't teach properly this is only minor matter.

Not necessarily. If they are employed in research capacity only, then it's more than obvious that their teaching ability isn't worth considering. However, if they are employed in both a research and teaching capacity, then it makes perfect sense for such academics to at least give the impression that they know how to teach their material.

Something else to consider is that that particular post was discussing students with poor english skills wanting/studying to become teachers, not current lecturers with poor english/teaching skills. Perhaps your own response is indicative of a lowering of english standards amongst the student body in general? (I don't mean for that to seem so strong, but it's a valid point to make given the topic).

 

[Korn]

I think she raises many interesting points.

In my course, which is mostly local students, there are people who are lazy, and aren't even particularly smart, even though the UAI to get in was high.

There are people whose writing style is pretty bad, when one would assume a good grasp of how to write well is necessary to do well in the HSC.

I think that there are problems in high schools with the way the HSC works, and the current crisis in universities lets people cruise through degrees unnoticed and lets people slack off.

It sucks in a way because it is devaluing the worth of a degree that many of us work really hard to achieve.

Education should be available to all.... but degrees shouldn't be handed out like candy to anyone who pays their HECS. People should get in to Australian universities based on merit- and they should be expected to demonstrate that they deserve that degree they walk out with at the end. Otherwise there are ramifications for all of us.

Why should students who are not motivated or interested in their degree be taking a place from someone who may want it badly?

Education is a right, but it comes with responsibility and if people shirk from that responsibility during tertiary education they should not be there.

whats the problem if you aim for higher then a mere pass? You will be chosen over those that only want the bear pass grade, so i dont see the disadvantage

 

[Korn]

Well, this shortage of jobs in commerce is especially prevalent in accounting.

I read an article that revealed plans to allow non-Commerce graduates to learn and practice accounting. This just goes to show how desperately short of accountants Australia is.

Where did you hear this exceptance of ppl who arent even trained in accounting becoming accountants?

Oh & 011, there has, is & always will be a need for Accountants & as the population grows & tax and other financing decisions increase in difficulty & volume there will always be a need for accountants

 

[jm1234567890]

Not necessarily. If they are employed in research capacity only, then it's more than obvious that their teaching ability isn't worth considering. However, if they are employed in both a research and teaching capacity, then it makes perfect sense for such academics to at least give the impression that they know how to teach their material.

Something else to consider is that that particular post was discussing students with poor english skills wanting/studying to become teachers, not current lecturers with poor english/teaching skills. Perhaps your own response is indicative of a lowering of english standards amongst the student body in general? (I don't mean for that to seem so strong, but it's a valid point to make given the topic).

their teaching ablity doesn't usually help them get recognition among peers and promotions.

Publishing a paper in a respected journal like "Nature" is alot more important to a lecturer than teaching students well. So even if they are capable of teaching well, they wont spend alot of time on it. It is seen as some obligation they have to fulfill.

I'm not really refering to the poor spoken english of some lecturers since they must give presentations are conferences and need good written english to write papers.

 

[Korn]

i agree with that. my thing is with people whose UAIs aren't good enough to get into what they *really* want to do then chose another non-related degree "for the sake of it" or because "their UAI was high enough". What about those who worked hard for a spot and missed out by .05???

anyway, i agree to some respects about the international student ratio. Although there aren't that many international students at ACU (well at my campus anyway) i do understand that they make up the bulk of candidature in some courses at some other unis. I'm not saying we shouldn't take international students in, I think it's great that they want to come here to earn a degree, but I agree that the screening process should be toughened up a little, especially when there are teachers (as tomorrows_angel pointed out) whose English isn't up to scratch.

Yes ppl who just wanted to do say nursing but got a UAI high enough to do Medicine or law & change it cause they can are fuckups

 

[011]

Yes ppl who just wanted to do say nursing but got a UAI high enough to do Medicine or law & change it cause they can are fuckups

That's why they changed the medicine process, yet it still happens in law a lot. They need a LSAT here (its a logic test in america you need to do to do law).

 

[mishka]

lecturer's don't exist to teach. they exist to research, so if they can't teach properly this is only minor matter.

if there were less international students there would be less local places and UAI cut offs would be higher...

i meant "teachers" as in student teachers, as tomorrows angel pointed out in her post.

Yes ppl who just wanted to do say nursing but got a UAI high enough to do Medicine or law & change it cause they can are fuckups

and if that is sarcastic, i'd like to point out my use of "non-related"

 

[Generator]

their teaching ablity doesn't usually help them get recognition among peers and promotions.

Publishing a paper in a respected journal like "Nature" is alot more important to a lecturer than teaching students well. So even if they are capable of teaching well, they wont spend alot of time on it. It is seen as some obligation they have to fulfill.

Once again, not necessarily. Their own views, for all intents and purposes, count for little if they are unable to put them to use, and given that teaching is a more than worthwhile use for such views, I can see no reason to treat teaching as a mere obligation for those who are employed to both teach and research. Besides, if they weren't interested in teaching, then they would not be employed in a teaching capacity.

 

[jm1234567890]

Once again, not necessarily. Their own views, for all intents and purposes, count for little if they are unable to put them to use, and given that teaching is a more than worthwhile use for such views, I can see no reason to treat teaching as a mere obligation for those who are employed to both teach and research. Besides, if they weren't interested in teaching, then they would not be employed in a teaching capacity.

of course there are people who love to teach, those are the ones who are given the teaching awards and such.

They aren't really employed to teach. The university doesn't gain anything by having great teachers who can't research.

i meant "teachers" as in student teachers, as tomorrows angel pointed out in her post.

ahh, ok. I didn't read her post.

well, they are employed to teach, so they should be good at it.

 

[Generator]

of course there are people who love to teach, those are the ones who are given the teaching awards and such.

They aren't really employed to teach. The university doesn't gain anything by having great teachers who can't research.

I'm sorry to carry on with this, but that would depend on the nature of the institution. Universities are institutes of higher learning, be it undergraduate or beyond, and they would also gain nothing by having great researchers that are employed to teach yet are unable to do so. If it's primarily a research institution, then it's obvious that teaching ability and teaching standards may count for little (if anything), but if it's a general institution or primarily a teaching insititution (not that they exist in Australia, yet) then it would be quite poor in terms of overall performance if its teaching academics were unable to teach their material effectively.

 

[jm1234567890]

I'm sorry to carry on with this, but that would depend on the nature of the institution. Universities are institutes of higher learning, be it undergraduate or beyond, and they would also gain nothing by having great researchers that are employed to teach yet are unable to do so. If it's primarily a research institution, then it's obvious that teaching ability and teaching standards may count for little (if anything), but if it's a general institution or primarily a teaching insititution (not that they exist in Australia, yet) then it would be quite poor in terms of overall performance if its teaching academics were unable to teach their material effectively.

yeah I agree.

There are acctually many programs running in uni to imporve the teaching standards. Such as workshops and instrucitonal videos.

But I'm not sure how much it helps.

In the end, I think at uni it is expected that you will do the reading yourself and learn. The lecturer is there to tell you what is the minimum expected of you.

 

[Lhyviathan]

Where did you hear this exceptance of ppl who arent even trained in accounting becoming accountants?

Oh & 011, there has, is & always will be a need for Accountants & as the population grows & tax and other financing decisions increase in difficulty & volume there will always be a need for accountants

I read it in one of those career section liftouts in one of the Sydney Morning Herald papers.

Besides, they would be given training first.

 

[Katie123]

we have plenty of international students in our course (of only 64 people) who speak very little broken english..and cannot really read it either...a major part of our practical component is communication with patients....it's going to be hard for them to do that when they have trouble communicating in normal circumstances.

 

[Josie]

We've got lots of people who speak shitty English, and so when we do our regular discussions of everyone's work, it just sort of falls to pieces.
And in something like Architecture, it's not just sitting and reading and the lecturer tells you what's going on... so much of it is stuff that can't be learnt from reading a book, the lecturers and tutors are really important.

 

[jm1234567890]

We've got lots of people who speak shitty English, and so when we do our regular discussions of everyone's work, it just sort of falls to pieces.
And in something like Architecture, it's not just sitting and reading and the lecturer tells you what's going on... so much of it is stuff that can't be learnt from reading a book, the lecturers and tutors are really important.

yes... architecture at usyd or unsw seems to be pretty popular in china

 

[Josie]

Yeah. Very.

 

[noneother]

we have plenty of international students in our course (of only 64 people) who speak very little broken english..and cannot really read it either...a major part of our practical component is communication with patients....it's going to be hard for them to do that when they have trouble communicating in normal circumstances.

Kind of makes you wonder why they chose a 'health' profession. We'll be putting our lives/health in their hands.

 

[noneother]

The reality is that 75% of the people enrolled in university shouldn't be there.

That's subjective.