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Soccer Thread : 2004-05 (6 Viewers)

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reynaldo

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max said:
The stats show Andreii hasn't scored that many goals this season in the serie A. - 8 or so.
Nor is he topping the cl goals list.
Why must you downplay Shevy's achievements?

9 goals in Serie A so far

3 in CL (scoring in both games against Barça, who are apparently the hot team in Europe this season..)

3 (hattrick) in Italian Supercoppa against Lazio

for Ukraine in WC Qualifiers;

4 goals from 5 games to take Ukraine to the top of group 2, 5 points ahead of Denmark & Turkey.. and 6 points ahead of the 'Best Team in Europe', Greece..

and last season;

24 goals in Serie A (Capocannonierre - #1 scorer)

keep in mind that Serie A is a difficult league to score in..
 

max

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reynaldo said:
Why must you downplay Shevy's achievements?

9 goals in Serie A so far

3 in CL (scoring in both games against Barça, who are apparently the hot team in Europe this season..)

3 (hattrick) in Italian Supercoppa against Lazio

for Ukraine in WC Qualifiers;

4 goals from 5 games to take Ukraine to the top of group 2, 5 points ahead of Denmark & Turkey.. and 6 points ahead of the 'Best Team in Europe', Greece..

and last season;

24 goals in Serie A (Capocannonierre - #1 scorer)

keep in mind that Serie A is a difficult league to score in..



Season 03-04 Goals:

Champions league:
Shevchenko: 4 Henry 5

Serie A: Shev: 24, 6 assists
Premier League: Henry: 30, 22 assists

Season 04-05 Goals:

Champions league:
Shev: 3, 2 assists
Henry: 4, 4 assists

Serie A: Shev: 9, 3 assists
Premier League: Henry: 13, 14 assists

Yes, Serie A is a defensive based league and Andrei performs very well considering such conditions - definately of the top strikers in the world ATM. His heading prowess is surely the best around at the moment.

However, this still doesn't denigrate the facts - the stats, which shows clearly the better player.
I know my world player of the year.
 

Numero Uno

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max said:
I know my world player of the year.
Whos That ?

Anyway How about todays EPL results
boy their were pretty boring games this morning .. :(
... it all builds up nicley to tonights big game

yes thats right .... Aston Villa V Birmingham :) (pfft who cares about the chelsea arsenal match.. we all know chelsea's gonna win :rolleyes: )
 

reynaldo

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max said:
Season 03-04 Goals:

Champions league:
Shevchenko: 4 Henry 5

Serie A: Shev: 24, 6 assists
Premier League: Henry: 30, 22 assists

Season 04-05 Goals:

Champions league:
Shev: 3, 2 assists
Henry: 4, 4 assists

Serie A: Shev: 9, 3 assists
Premier League: Henry: 13, 14 assists

Yes, Serie A is a defensive based league and Andrei performs very well considering such conditions - definately of the top strikers in the world ATM. His heading prowess is surely the best around at the moment.

However, this still doesn't denigrate the facts - the stats, which shows clearly the better player.
I know my world player of the year.
But what has Henry done for France?

This season, Sheva has almost singlehandedly carried both Milan (until Crespo and Kaká came good against Donetsk) + Ukraina.. football is much more than just stats.
 

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reynaldo said:
But what has Henry done for France?

This season, Sheva has almost singlehandedly carried both Milan (until Crespo and Kaká came good against Donetsk) + Ukraina.. football is much more than just stats.
Very true, I personally do like Sheva a lot mo than Henry.
But then again, I think Henry always carries the whole Arsenal team.
Nevertheless though, it's fair to say Ronaldinho is a deserved World Player winner.
 

max

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reynaldo said:
But what has Henry done for France?

This season, Sheva has almost singlehandedly carried both Milan (until Crespo and Kaká came good against Donetsk) + Ukraina.. football is much more than just stats.
You're right there, Shevchenko's international form is IMO the only thing he's got over Henry. Ukraine have used his form well, and probably rely solely on him. France have more stars, relying much less on any individual (like henry or maybe cisse) to incur a large workload and score all the teams goals. The team has more quality strikers to pick from. France's form hasn't however been up to scratch though..

However, you couldn't be more wrong about the stats.
For a striker, the single and most important exponent of his football is scoring goals, and if not, making assists. His role is largely, if not entirely statistical.
Simply, if he isn't scoring, he's denoted to the bench. So tell me, apart from stats, what has Shevchenko done that is important to you? He doesn't captain. Maybe it's Andriy that gives Maldini and co.'s boots that extra shine before the match!



Also, could someone enlighten me on Ronaldinho's form??
 

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LMF^^ said:
Very true, I personally do like Sheva a lot mo than Henry.
But then again, I think Henry always carries the whole Arsenal team.
Nevertheless though, it's fair to say Ronaldinho is a deserved World Player winner.

Yeah Ronaldinho inspired Barca to how many trophies last season? It's disgraceful how since Mattheus all the previous winners have been attackers. I an't take this award seriously anymore.
 

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HeCtic said:
Yeah Ronaldinho inspired Barca to how many trophies last season? It's disgraceful how since Mattheus all the previous winners have been attackers. I an't take this award seriously anymore.
I don't think winnin trophies should mean that greatly. If it wasn't fo Ronaldinho, Barca would not have achieved what they did last season.
And now we really see how good he is as a player.
 

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But isn't that the argument that everyone uses against Henry? He's never done it for Arsnela in Europe or for France at major tournaments?

Henry spearheaded us to an unbeaten season and to the quarters of the CL and semi's of the FA cup. He deserves it more than Ronaldinho who got Barca out of a sticky situation last season but didn't win them anything. Out of those three nominated I'd take Sheva, but there are other guys in the world who deserve it more. Defenders never get a look in otherwise guys liek Nesta etc should be in contention. Untill that happens I won't take any of these awards seriously.
 

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LMF^^ said:
I don't think winnin trophies should mean that greatly. If it wasn't fo Ronaldinho, Barca would not have achieved what they did last season.
And now we really see how good he is as a player.
Exactly what is it that Ronnie has done?
 

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max said:
However, you couldn't be more wrong about the stats.
For a striker, the single and most important exponent of his football is scoring goals, and if not, making assists. His role is largely, if not entirely statistical.
Simply, if he isn't scoring, he's denoted to the bench. So tell me, apart from stats, what has Shevchenko done that is important to you? He doesn't captain. Maybe it's Andriy that gives Maldini and co.'s boots that extra shine before the match!
Sheva is captain of Ukraine. IMO he would also make an excellent captain of Milan once Maldini retires.

I think you are overstating the importance of statistics. I believe that timing of goals is far more important than quantity. This is why Sheva is such a crucial element for both Milan and Ukraine - he scores when the team needs goals most.

I shall refer you to a few examples;

- Italian Supercoppa against Lazio. Sheva was the sole difference between both sides with his hattrick, which proves he can perform on big occasions, an attribute of a World Class player, dare i say, the Worlds Best Player.

- In CL, he scored the only goal against who i believe to be the best team in Europe at the moment - Barcelona. This victory was important both symbolically and especially points-wise.

- In Serie A. He singlehandedly won Milan 9 points in the games against Lazio (2-1), Sampdoria (1-0) and Siena (2-1). He scored two goals against Reggina (3-1) to give us 3 points instead of 1 and made sure we didn't lose to Roma (1-1). Essentially, he has kept us within 4 points of an unbelievably strong Juventus side.

Another aspect that I consider to indicate a World Class player is versatility. Sheva can score pretty much from any part of his anatomy (although im yet to see a Ruud Gullit reminiscent hip volley ;) ). The quality of his goals are also very high. As you know, its quite hard to break down a team exhibiting the Catenaccio style, so you often see some clinical pieces of finishing from Il Tsar - notably his headers and an incredible outside-the-area volley against, Reggina i think.

As for assists, Sheva has considerably fewer than Henry. Not only do they have quite different playing styles, but at times Milan can have up to 4 playmakers on the field at the one time (Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Kaká), which eliminates the need for Sheva to create his own goals or for others.

And, if you were wondering, it's Vikash Dhorasoo who is the resident boot shiner at Milanello :)
 

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Dhorasoo is quite a player on his day though. Loved watching some of the stuff he did in France.
 

max

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reynaldo said:
Sheva is captain of Ukraine. IMO he would also make an excellent captain of Milan once Maldini retires.

I think you are overstating the importance of statistics. I believe that timing of goals is far more important than quantity. This is why Sheva is such a crucial element for both Milan and Ukraine - he scores when the team needs goals most.

I shall refer you to a few examples;

- Italian Supercoppa against Lazio. Sheva was the sole difference between both sides with his hattrick, which proves he can perform on big occasions, an attribute of a World Class player, dare i say, the Worlds Best Player.

- In CL, he scored the only goal against who i believe to be the best team in Europe at the moment - Barcelona. This victory was important both symbolically and especially points-wise.

- In Serie A. He singlehandedly won Milan 9 points in the games against Lazio (2-1), Sampdoria (1-0) and Siena (2-1). He scored two goals against Reggina (3-1) to give us 3 points instead of 1 and made sure we didn't lose to Roma (1-1). Essentially, he has kept us within 4 points of an unbelievably strong Juventus side.

Another aspect that I consider to indicate a World Class player is versatility. Sheva can score pretty much from any part of his anatomy (although im yet to see a Ruud Gullit reminiscent hip volley ;) ). The quality of his goals are also very high. As you know, its quite hard to break down a team exhibiting the Catenaccio style, so you often see some clinical pieces of finishing from Il Tsar - notably his headers and an incredible outside-the-area volley against, Reggina i think.

As for assists, Sheva has considerably fewer than Henry. Not only do they have quite different playing styles, but at times Milan can have up to 4 playmakers on the field at the one time (Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Kaká), which eliminates the need for Sheva to create his own goals or for others.

And, if you were wondering, it's Vikash Dhorasoo who is the resident boot shiner at Milanello :)


Fair point.

You and I could argue all day...
 

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all i can say is that paval nedved should of won world player of the year last year... fucking ronaldo he is good but last year was shit... nedved= single handedly took juve to the ucl final when del pero, trezagay and thrum were injuried ;)
 

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i think Hnery needs to keep producing those forms for a few more yrs until he can be compared to Sheva

cos Sheva has been doing what Henry have been doing for a lot longer time

therefore more worthy winner than Henry
 

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plz dont mention that person in xomparison to sheva.... shevenko proved him him self on the world stage at world cup 98 when he was young 18 i think
champions leaugue in 99 with dynamo keiv top scorer and almost beating bayern munich in the semi, in italy he has proved it..

when henry does that i'll shut up and most of the doubters of henry...
but please dont every mention henrys name in the like of great strikers...

ok... he has flopped in europe and also italy where he got signed from ands only shown in eng where his pace and quick foot work--not skill made him look good
 

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notnownotever said:
plz dont mention that person in xomparison to sheva.... shevenko proved him him self on the world stage at world cup 98 when he was young 18 i think
champions leaugue in 99 with dynamo keiv top scorer and almost beating bayern munich in the semi, in italy he has proved it..

when henry does that i'll shut up and most of the doubters of henry...
but please dont every mention henrys name in the like of great strikers...

ok... he has flopped in europe and also italy where he got signed from ands only shown in eng where his pace and quick foot work--not skill made him look good

Ukraine qualified for the 98 world cup did they? Bahahaha. Stop making shit up and trying to pass it on as fact. Henry was France's top scorer at the 98 World Cup that is a fact.

Anyone who saw that Kiev run would've told you that Sergeii Rebrov was just as effective as Sheva was and it was their partnership which terrorised defences Europe wide, he had great service and benefited from excellent hard working midfield displays and by playing off Rebrov's stunning passing game. Who would've known that Spurs could ruin such an amazing talent.

Henry hasn't flopped in Europe either. Arsenal in general have played shite in Europe and Henry's goals to games ratio in Europe is quite excellent. The only probelm I have with Henry is that he has been marked out of big games over the last couple of seasons, but he's young enough to go another level up and be a true great. Even in those big games he still can pull out magical moments eg his screamer at Highbury against Utd so you can never discount him from a game. He has skills other players can only dream of having and to say his goals aren't scored because of skills is bullshit, he's technically brilliant and scores many brilliant goals. Sheva might shade it on last season's form, but Henry can lay just as much claim to the title as he can IMO, he won or saved us in so many games last season and will do again this season.

To not say he's a world-class player and a great striker is bollocks. You're talking shite.
 

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HeCtic said:
Ukraine qualified for the 98 world cup did they? Bahahaha. Stop making shit up and trying to pass it on as fact. Henry was France's top scorer at the 98 World Cup that is a fact.

Anyone who saw that Kiev run would've told you that Sergeii Rebrov was just as effective as Sheva was and it was their partnership which terrorised defences Europe wide, he had great service and benefited from excellent hard working midfield displays and by playing off Rebrov's stunning passing game. Who would've known that Spurs could ruin such an amazing talent.

Henry hasn't flopped in Europe either. Arsenal in general have played shite in Europe and Henry's goals to games ratio in Europe is quite excellent. The only probelm I have with Henry is that he has been marked out of big games over the last couple of seasons, but he's young enough to go another level up and be a true great. Even in those big games he still can pull out magical moments eg his screamer at Highbury against Utd so you can never discount him from a game. He has skills other players can only dream of having and to say his goals aren't scored because of skills is bullshit, he's technically brilliant and scores many brilliant goals. Sheva might shade it on last season's form, but Henry can lay just as much claim to the title as he can IMO, he won or saved us in so many games last season and will do again this season.

To not say he's a world-class player and a great striker is bollocks. You're talking shite.
i got mistaken with romaina.. same shit..but different smell.. i'am not talking shit that is my view... henry is not of the class of ronaldhino, sheva, shearer, raul, roy maakay...
oh its just fance, if he was good, he would of got golden boot from david sukur...so also at euro 2000 he didnt shine only scoring 3 goals...
if he was, he would of shined in europe whether it be the champions, league or the uefa cup.. btw did henry play in that final against galasatary.... and also he should prove it one the world stage.....
one he proves it i'll eat my world..
btw rebrov played a supporting role to sheva.... if i wat was the other way around rebrov would be playing in italy and sheva would be else where..
 

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nah

henry is a great player, no doubt

but arsenal just need to perform very impressively in europe for Henry to be recognised as a "great", otherwise he will just be "another player that just fell short"
i dun think ppl should doubt Henry's skill and talent, but at the same time, he has yet to fulfil them
 
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