Special APEC Laws (relating to police powers) (1 Viewer)

[ur_inner_child]

I BUSH


protest this, hippies

Stop spamming please.

 

[veridis]

I BUSH


protest this, hippies

I PREFER BRAZILIAN
though i dont see why hippies would protest against you, they probably like it all natural too.


back on topic, i dont see a single terror attack on Australian soil on that list. the money would be much better spent trying to stabilise the region rather than infringe on Australian citizens rights.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Or better yet, how about on something useful such as education, or healthcare? What better way to prolong a life then through a hospital, rather than through frivilous spending on fridge magnets, ASIO operations etc.?

 

[jimmayyy]

From that list, it almost appears as if hardly any terror attacks have been thwarted since 9/11...I therefore fail to see the correlation between $ spent and terror attacks prevented.

err, you said that there weren't too many attacks before 9/11 and not too many after. i just showed you that there were like over 2 dozen major attacks before it, and half a dozen after it, including 3 major ones thwarted. therefore, i fail to see how you have the ability to type a reply on a keyboard but cannot deduce how very wrong you were.

 

[jimmayyy]

In the time it took you to make that post, 30 Iraqis died in bombing attacks due to US Army TERRORISTS occupying their land.

what is your point? even if i had the patience to argue the point with your post, it doesn't change the fact that i disproved a blatantly falsehood.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Hmmm, so I was. Maybe what I meant was that relative to ways which other people die, for example, cancer, that not a lot of people die from terrorism. But hey, I also said that there's no correlation between money spent and attacks thwarted. And apparently, there isn't, and apparently, that's what you were referring to anyway. Observe:

you'd be a shit statistician then, my friend.

 

[jimmayyy]

Or better yet, how about on something useful such as education, or healthcare? What better way to prolong a life then through a hospital, rather than through frivilous spending on fridge magnets, ASIO operations etc.?

i agree whole heartedly with you and with veridis' post above yours, all i am trying to say is it is often swept under the rug just how bad terrorism has been and its effects on the western world.

its easy for us to dimiss the new laws are "right infringing" because we haven't been attacked. when i was in new york at the start of the year, i got into an argument with customs officials about their laws pertaining to airports etc (you should go live there if u think these APEC laws. the "right infringing" here looks positively minute compared) and it put things into perspective.

most average, everyday citizens, esp those in the city of new york and the ones i spoke to around the WTC site gave the same response "if it will stop another 9/11, i'm happy to sacrifice with somethings" and i think that is what everyone is missing.

we don't really know what it is like to have something as horrific as 9/11. the effect it had on the american psyche is incomprehensable to us. the fact that their very manhood, their centre of ecomomic strength standing tall above their most populous city was destroyed by cave dwelling scum has made them, understandably, react to the source of the evil that attacked them in the first place.

in no way am i defending americas actions in afghanistan or iraq or their crusade to rule the world, i am as against that as any sane person, but just try and get out of your little idealistic box and see the big picture and try to understand we are dealing with something that has already cost millions of lives, and will cost millions more if someone, somewhere isn't brave enough to put a stop to it. if that means laws like this, then fine. i for one am willing to sacrifice my right to be in the CBD for a couple days if it means thousands of innocent people don't get killed but some nutjob extremist.

its too easy for us to sit back and cry "police state" and quote ben franklin, but fuck, just try and imagine the other side of the coin.

 

[veridis]

most average, everyday citizens, esp those in the city of new york and the ones i spoke to around the WTC site gave the same response "if it will stop another 9/11, i'm happy to sacrifice with somethings" and i think that is what everyone is missing.

we don't really know what it is like to have something as horrific as 9/11. the effect it had on the american psyche is incomprehensable to us. the fact that their very manhood, their centre of ecomomic strength standing tall above their most populous city was destroyed by cave dwelling scum has made them, understandably, react to the source of the evil that attacked them in the first place.

it's incomprehensible to us because it was entirely created by the sensationalist american media. how many people died in 11/9(use fucking australian dating dammit), a bit under 3000. almost 700,000 died from heart disease, and 25000 from liver disease, both almost entirely preventable diseases. number of suicides, 30000, ten times the amount killed in terrorist attacks. all these other figures are relatively constant year by year, september 11 was a one off, yet all the attention goes to fighting terrorism. it's incomprehensible because it makes no sense.

its too easy for us to sit back and cry "police state" and quote ben franklin, but fuck, just try and imagine the other side of the coin.

when the other side of the coin becomes even half as dangerous as the entirely preventable problems we face in other areas then maybe should we get concerned. right now it should be way down our lists.

 

[scarybunny]

The fence is to keep the rabbits out. Too many rabbits in Sydney.

OR maybe it's to keep those freeloading, diplomatically-immune bastards IN. I don't want a bunch of lawless diplomats rampaging all over Sydney. It's best to keep them fenced in, rather than drag-racing and illegally-parking and whatnot.

 

[ubernuton]

i agree whole heartedly with you and with veridis' post above yours, all i am trying to say is it is often swept under the rug just how bad terrorism has been and its effects on the western world.

its easy for us to dimiss the new laws are "right infringing" because we haven't been attacked. when i was in new york at the start of the year, i got into an argument with customs officials about their laws pertaining to airports etc (you should go live there if u think these APEC laws. the "right infringing" here looks positively minute compared) and it put things into perspective.

most average, everyday citizens, esp those in the city of new york and the ones i spoke to around the WTC site gave the same response "if it will stop another 9/11, i'm happy to sacrifice with somethings" and i think that is what everyone is missing.

we don't really know what it is like to have something as horrific as 9/11. the effect it had on the american psyche is incomprehensable to us. the fact that their very manhood, their centre of ecomomic strength standing tall above their most populous city was destroyed by cave dwelling scum has made them, understandably, react to the source of the evil that attacked them in the first place.

in no way am i defending americas actions in afghanistan or iraq or their crusade to rule the world, i am as against that as any sane person, but just try and get out of your little idealistic box and see the big picture and try to understand we are dealing with something that has already cost millions of lives, and will cost millions more if someone, somewhere isn't brave enough to put a stop to it. if that means laws like this, then fine. i for one am willing to sacrifice my right to be in the CBD for a couple days if it means thousands of innocent people don't get killed but some nutjob extremist.

its too easy for us to sit back and cry "police state" and quote ben franklin, but fuck, just try and imagine the other side of the coin.

a country that give up some of it freedoms for security, has neither

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

i agree whole heartedly with you and with veridis' post above yours, all i am trying to say is it is often swept under the rug just how bad terrorism has been and its effects on the western world.

its easy for us to dimiss the new laws are "right infringing" because we haven't been attacked. when i was in new york at the start of the year, i got into an argument with customs officials about their laws pertaining to airports etc (you should go live there if u think these APEC laws. the "right infringing" here looks positively minute compared) and it put things into perspective.

most average, everyday citizens, esp those in the city of new york and the ones i spoke to around the WTC site gave the same response "if it will stop another 9/11, i'm happy to sacrifice with somethings" and i think that is what everyone is missing.

we don't really know what it is like to have something as horrific as 9/11. the effect it had on the american psyche is incomprehensable to us. the fact that their very manhood, their centre of ecomomic strength standing tall above their most populous city was destroyed by cave dwelling scum has made them, understandably, react to the source of the evil that attacked them in the first place.

in no way am i defending americas actions in afghanistan or iraq or their crusade to rule the world, i am as against that as any sane person, but just try and get out of your little idealistic box and see the big picture and try to understand we are dealing with something that has already cost millions of lives, and will cost millions more if someone, somewhere isn't brave enough to put a stop to it. if that means laws like this, then fine. i for one am willing to sacrifice my right to be in the CBD for a couple days if it means thousands of innocent people don't get killed but some nutjob extremist.

its too easy for us to sit back and cry "police state" and quote ben franklin, but fuck, just try and imagine the other side of the coin.

I think most of what you said was reasonable. Yes, terrorism is a problem, and we should try to stop it, but there ought to be limits. When you're spending absurd amounts of cash on something that appears to be making little difference, I think it's time to give up that line of inquiry. When you're killing thousands more people than you could have ever saved by invading a country, I think that's just bloody absurd (and you seem to agree with me there). Similarly, when you're sacrificing human rights for the odd chance that it could thwart a terrorist attack (keeping in mind that the money being spent here doesn't seem to be making much of a difference), I don't think that's an incredibly smart thing to do. Try to stop terrorism by all means, so long as they're within reason and so long as they actually do achieve something. So I don't have a problem with flushing out the sewers of Sydney for bombs, mind you it should have been recycled water, because it's a reasonable counter terrorism measure. I don't have a problem with armed guards on planes, no problem at all, so long as they're heavily trained and not trigger-happy like those douchebags who killed the Brazillian in London. There are reasonable measures, but so much of what's being done is completely unreasonable.

For example, not letting protestors march down King St. Come the fuck on...

 

[ubernuton]

one mans terrorist is another man freedom fighter
all or freedom origonate from one terrorist or another

 

[kazan]

fail.

freedom does come from diplomatic ways aswell.

but i understand the first point you make,

its all a matter of perspective

although terrorisim has been made a to look like a bad thing, it is still a type of revoluntionary struggle /warfare

 

[jimmayyy]

PS another major terrorist attack thwarted;

German authorities have arrested three suspected Islamic terrorists for allegedly plotting attacks on Frankfurt International Airport and the nearby Ramstein Air Base, a key US and NATO military hub.

http://www.thewest.com.au/aapstory.aspx?StoryName=415917

 

[jimmayyy]

although terrorisim has been made a to look like a bad thing...

words fail me.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

fail.

freedom does come from diplomatic ways aswell.

but i understand the first point you make,

its all a matter of perspective

although terrorisim has been made a to look like a bad thing, it is still a type of revoluntionary struggle /warfare

Yeah, that's true. The unfortunate fact is that what they're struggling for is utter shit. I can't imagine why anyone would call someone who wants to impose Shariah law (or whatever that junk is called) a "freedom fighter", or a revolutionary. If anything, it's a de-evolution, and needs to be stopped.

Keep in mind though, conservative scummyjerks, that bombing the crap out of a country ain't the way to bring about change.

 

[scarybunny]

The number of things people are protesting ALL AT THE SAME TIME is very amusing.
Stop Bush.
Troops out of Iraq.
Howard is bad.
Globalisation is bad.
Fence is bad.
Not letting us protest where we want to is bad.
Workers rights are good.
Free various countries.
Whaling is bad.
Climate change is bad.
Rainforests are good.
Showers are bad.
Underwater basket weaving is good.
Whatever you're for is bad.
We disagree.
etc.

 

[Azamakumar]

That's been posted in over 9000 threads today.

And lol @ Canada.

 

[j_davo24]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22372710-5013109,00.html

Chaser boys held over APEC stunt

While I usually find what they do funny, this just seems utterly stupid and they deserve to be locked up. Everyone has been warned about the consequences.

Pulling stunts at protests that already have a chance of becoming violent, in order to promote your own self indulgent behaviour is utterly inexcusable. Lets hope they are locked up for the full 5 days and then charged seriously this time.

We may not know the exact details at this stage, but if it is anything like what they usually produce it will be provocative to say the least...

 

[j_davo24]

What the fuck? You can't take the piss out of the fact that our entire city feels like East Germany? Or would that let the terrorists win...

Nothing to do with 'letting terrorists win'. It's about letting innocent people be alive and not threatened by the stupidity of others. Did you forget the shoot to kill policy? Not only are they putting themselves at risk but also everyone around them that has a genuine reason to be there. Just because they are media they shouldn't get any special attention (although it seems they have been granted bail, despite an assumption against this), if it was you theyd find a nice holding cell for you for a few days.

Your kidding about East germany right? The Berlin wall was in existence for decades, this thing is up for a week. If you can't live without going to the Opera House for a week then you have a serious problem. Only a very small percentage of the city is actually 'closed', people are still allowed in the declared zone. I find it really strange that you think the oppression of not visiting the Opera House for a week is the equivilent of decades of suffering in East Germany.