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SRC Election Results 2005 - the Post-Mortem (1 Viewer)

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Not-That-Bright

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what is the 'male perspective' on issues?
the women's collective exists because typically they are the marginalised gender

even if women now represent a fair amount of students and grades, why can't the women's collective exist for support with women related sexual, lifestyle issues?
Well personally I don't think the university should be the primary place for dealing with everybodies issues, but if there are going to be places to support womens sexual and lifestyle issues then the same should be done for men.

Male perspective on issues;
There is a proposed party to be funded, there will be women paid to serve drinks in skimpy clothing at this party, which is partially sponsored by us.
Womens Collective: This party is sexist, and resources should not be spent on this occasion.

Mens Collective: This party is about us getting together and having fun, the girls are there for entertainment because these girls are entertaining to men. They will be respected.

Women are putting up anti-male posters.
Womens Collective: We are simply exposing the discrimination which we suffer.

Mens Collective: These posters are discriminatory and hateful.


etc etc...

edit: Figures on sexual harassment are quite shakey, with various surveys i've looked at showing that it is quite possible that men have been sexually abused much more than current data would suggest, however have a much harder time comming forward.
 

Phanatical

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walrusbear said:
this isn't about the benefit of males
it's about the issues for women

i don't see how assisting women deprives men. since there is already an imbalance...

I'm not going to touch the issue of whether women or men are more or less disadvantaged in society. But I am going to illustrate ways in which men Do face disadvantage in society. I'm rehashing some of my past research, but I think it's important that we recognise the facts.


Spending on women's health has never been higher. There is plenty of awareness on issues such as breast and cervical cancer, as well as mental health issues such as stress. Among most women I've spoken to at USYD, the biggest attraction of the Union's Women's Space is that it is a relaxing space where they can hang out, have free tea and coffee, and relax from the stresses of university life. Unfortunately, these issues affect men in the same way.

Testicular cancer, for example, is most common around men under the age of 30, and ranks as one of the biggest killers of young men. Yet our SRC does not hold, much less distribute information on how to avoid testicular cancer.

In terms of mental health, perhaps the most revealing statistic is that of suicide. Among all age groups, males are not only more likely to attempt it, they are far more successful in doing so. I'm not sure of the exact statistic, but if my memory serves me right, males commit around 70-80% of suicides, with the majority fitting squarely in the age groups dominating our university.

Or what about the simple fact that men live shorter lives than women? Surely if we have more power and privilege, we would be living longer.

Our prisons are dominated by men. And these men are on average serving much longer sentences than women - often for the same crimes.

Men are branded for crimes that feminists have told our society that we are all guilty of. When we think of terms like "rapist", "sexual harasser", we don't think of women. One reputable source described "domestic violence" as the "emotional, as well as sexual or physical abuse of women in their homes by partners". This gender distinction is especially disturbing when we consider the research of Dr. Martin Fiebert, and his bibliography of over 150 scholarly investigations and 110000 respondents proving that women are in fact MORE likely to commit acts of domestic violence against their partners or children. So much for the assertion that 98% of domestic violence is committed by the male in the family (from an Actual National Union of Students policy statement).

This dangerous stereotype has legal ramifications too. There is a very real bias against men in our court system, especially the Family Court - in which over 94% of custody hearings are found in favour of the mother.

Men dominate the top 3% of the workforce, and on average they earn more money. But men work MUCH longer hours (to fulfill society's expectation that they act as Breadwinner) and they dominate the bottom 30% of the workforce. In addition, men make up the overwhelming majority of the unemployed. When you go to your local Centrelink, are you surrounded by women? Is gender imbalance truly as big a problem as some say it is, when we consider that gender imbalance doesn't just exist in industries like IT and Law, but also in industries such as waste disposal, long haul transport, emergency electrical repair, explosive demolitions, asbestos removal? How many women do we know who earn their keep removing asbestos?


Of course, this is a good opportunity to rehash one of my favourite Andrea Dworkin quotes - 'I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.'
 

jordanv

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well said Phanatical

but no one wants to hear.

The Women's Collective don't want equality, they want revenge.
 

walrusbear

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Not-That-Bright said:
Figures on sexual harassment are quite shakey, with various surveys i've looked at showing that it is quite possible that men have been sexually abused much more than current data would suggest, however have a much harder time comming forward.
that's actually true

but another issue
 

walrusbear

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Not-That-Bright said:
Well personally I don't think the university should be the primary place for dealing with everybodies issues, but if there are going to be places to support womens sexual and lifestyle issues then the same should be done for men.

Male perspective on issues;
There is a proposed party to be funded, there will be women paid to serve drinks in skimpy clothing at this party, which is partially sponsored by us.
Womens Collective: This party is sexist, and resources should not be spent on this occasion.

Mens Collective: This party is about us getting together and having fun, the girls are there for entertainment because these girls are entertaining to men. They will be respected.

Women are putting up anti-male posters.
Womens Collective: We are simply exposing the discrimination which we suffer.

Mens Collective: These posters are discriminatory and hateful.
so the mens collective will be borderline sexist??
why is that the males perspective? both these examples are based on hackneyed stereotypes
 

Not-That-Bright

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Well my point there is that sexual abuse, at home/work etc is not just a female issue. However in the university environment, I imagine we're talking more about girls having their bums pinched and guys acting sleazy around them most of the time.

so the mens collective will be borderline sexist??
why is that the males perspective? both these examples are based on hackneyed stereotypes
Well the male perspective will hopefully become enlightened through a representative on issues. I don't know what exactly a male perspective would be, just as the female perspective on issues, that you would say, I could call stereotypical...

But the idea is that men and women are different animals, socially and biologically. That's why they should have separate, distinct representation.
 
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Phanatical

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walrusbear said:
that's actually true

but another issue
No, it's not another issue. It's the same issue. You are trying to justify the continued existance of a Political women's office and women's collective whose foundation is built NOT upon the premise that women are disadvantaged in society, but upon the premise that they exist to achieve EQUAL RIGHTS. We know that equal rights means (VERY simply) that both genders have the same opportunities to achieve in society.

THEREFORE because Men face disadvantage in society, we must have a Men's Officer.
 

walrusbear

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Not-That-Bright said:
Well my point there is that sexual abuse, at home/work etc is not just a female issue. However in the university environment, I imagine we're talking more about girls having their bums pinched and guys acting sleazy around them most of the time.



Well the male perspective will hopefully become enlightened through a representative on issues. I don't know what exactly a male perspective would be, just as the female perspective on issues, that you would say, I could call stereotypical...

But the idea is that men and women are different animals, socially and biologically. That's why they should have separate, distinct representation.
i know
thus why a women's collective is valuable
 

Phanatical

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I disagree that we need a separate Women's and Men's Officer. We need to stop polarising and politicising these issues, and deal with gender issues as Gender issues.
 

walrusbear

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Phanatical said:
No, it's not another issue. It's the same issue. You are trying to justify the continued existance of a Political women's office and women's collective whose foundation is built NOT upon the premise that women are disadvantaged in society, but upon the premise that they exist to achieve EQUAL RIGHTS. We know that equal rights means (VERY simply) that both genders have the same opportunities to achieve in society.

THEREFORE because Men face disadvantage in society, we must have a Men's Officer.
they're not mutually exclusive :p
in fact the reason they try to pursue equal rights because women are disadvantaged
 

Not-That-Bright

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For me it's not a matter of disadvantage in society, which I think is a much more complicated issue, but disadvantage in university. I feel that in the university community, women are not disadvantaged but are advantaged (as in advantaged above their male counter-parts).

This can be seen through the performance differences / inadequate male representation at university.
 

walrusbear

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Phanatical said:
I disagree that we need a separate Women's and Men's Officer. We need to stop polarising and politicising these issues, and deal with gender issues as Gender issues.
equal does not mean the same

men and women face very different issues, and whilst they should be treated equally, they shouldn't be treated identically.

it's a tough thing to manage
 

Phanatical

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I've attempted to address the issue on their field - that the SRC should advocate issues beyond the university. But I agree - the SRC's role is to advocate STUDENT issues within the University. And the facts speak for themselves. We make up 40% of the university population and overall suffer lower grades.
 

walrusbear

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Not-That-Bright said:
For me it's not a matter of disadvantage in society, which I think is a much more complicated issue, but disadvantage in university. I feel that in the university community, women are not disadvantaged but are advantaged (as in advantaged above their male counter-parts).

This can be seen through the performance differences / inadequate male representation at university.
women may or may not have better grades
i think males are represented fine on campus???

and women's collective is a valuable entity on campus
 

Phanatical

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I am currently involved in a dispute against the Department of Gender Studies in the Faculty of Arts, because I feel that their continued discrimination against me was affecting not just my academic work, but also my university experience. I don't believe that any student should be attacked for their political beliefs or their gender - but in Gender Studies that's exactly what happens. Because I'm a male, my marks are less. Hell, in WMST2001 last semester, guys were outnumbered 6 to 1 in this subject, and almost all the guys filled out the bottom 10% of the course in terms of academic marks.
 

Not-That-Bright

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There is far less males attending university than females, the disparity is above that of the population numbers of males / females.

Females are achieving better grades.

The womens collective does have its merits, women do need representation because they have a perspective on different issues and they have different concerns to those of men. However, the same applies to men.

Yes, straight males are demonised in university. By the 'womyn', by the 'queer collective' and their hate propaganda. Some of which is fairly accurate, but it's still often hurtful and irresponsible.

I disagree with quah because I cannot see that ever working. Are we going to get a female sexuality officer that can accurately represent males? It's doubtful... are we going to get a male sexuality officer that can accurately represent females? Doubtful again.
 

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Not-That-Bright said:
I disagree with quah because I cannot see that ever working. Are we going to get a female sexuality officer that can accurately represent males? It's doubtful... are we going to get a male sexuality officer that can accurately represent females? Doubtful again.
well we have neither or both.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Well neither seems ok with me, as long as the university still does look after the issues which affect both men and women uniquely.

However I do feel it would be better for both groups to have a specific voice.
 

walrusbear

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Not-That-Bright said:
There is far less males attending university than females, the disparity is above that of the population numbers of males / females.

Females are achieving better grades.

The womens collective does have its merits, women do need representation because they have a perspective on different issues and they have different concerns to those of men. However, the same applies to men.

I disagree with quah because I cannot see that ever working. Are we going to get a female sexuality officer that can accurately represent males? It's doubtful... are we going to get a male sexuality officer that can accurately represent females? Doubtful again.
the CHOICE campaign promoted otherwise
 

Phanatical

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The idea of the Gender Issues and Equal Opportunity Officer is in some ways a compromise model. No Men's Officer, but no Women's Officer. But the basis of this policy is that I don't believe that the GI/EOO should deal with political issues. I think their main function should be to facilitate the provision and distribution of gender-specific healthcare information, and to act as a conduit between students and organisations that CAN deal with their gender-based issues. Discrimination, Harassment, Custody, whatever. Politics can be done away from the SRC.
 
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