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Steve Irwin dead (1 Viewer)

Jiga

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Her motives aren't really relevant. The real issue is whether there is any merit in the content of her assertions.
Yes her motives are relavent, because twats like yourself actually believe the drivel that she is dishing it, which has a sole purpose of creating anger and raising her profile.... not to present a true and correct depiction of Steve Irwin. A persons motives will influence the way they present an argument, often distorting the truth as Ms Greer to get their perspective across at whatever cost. You just have to look at the last paragraph to get a sense of ther spitefulness:

"The animal world has finally taken its revenge on Irwin, but probably not before a whole generation of kids in shorts seven sizes too small has learned to shout in the ears of animals with hearing 10 times more acute than theirs, determined to become millionaire animal-loving zoo-owners in their turn."

Again, it is not a reaction merely to Irwin, but the placing of him on a pedestal to typify him as the ideal Australian. Hence it is the public sentiment which she is reacting to, and the ideas that that sentiment represents -- not merely Irwin's personal faults.
He is the 'ideal Australian' though in my opinion, its not an Australian we should aspire to be neccessarily overall.... but everything good about him are the ideals we should aspire to. How are qualities like being true to yourself, loving your family, being energetic, staying grounded even after great success, being proud to be an Aussie, being extremely passionate... not ideal qualities? Please tell me Mr Politically Correct! Its disgraceful that people even try to defend her... her timing was bad, and what she said was very spiteful and its embaressing that she was born in this great country.

Well firstly, Germaine Greer is probably one of the most known feminists, accademics of our time. Whether you agree with her often or not (I don't), it shows more of your own ignorance to claim she has 'done less' than Steve Irwin.
She has done less than Irwin, many feminists dont even agree with her! Anyone can publish some books about totally shit but no-one agrees with her. And at the end of the day, who will mourn her death? Will you get millions of people mourning as for Irwin? This reflects his value. He wasnt just a great naturist and consevationist but a great human being.... Greer is a wicked old bitch.

True, but I'lll defend this by saying what I said earlier. His method of teaching was very much rough and aggressive towards animals which he did bother, but his heart was with his love for them and the will to teach those and perhaps influence others with his passion. Animals would react appropriately, no doubt he has had injuries in the past by them but what really matters, to me anyway, is the fact that if Steve was to get hurt by an animal this way then he would'nt desire to hurt the animal back. He showed consent for the natural order and mechanisms of the animals he handled and was surrounded by. In turn by dealing with potentially dangerous animals he got killed by one, I think people should've seen it comming but it does come as a shock because of the abruptness of the event.
Exactly, he had his heart in the right place and at the end of the day he did what he had to to get raise the profile of conservation etc.





As for that article, there are so many points that are incorrect in it... just another person trying to get into the spotlight.

* Firstly, death is not an excuse to savage the "elite" Greer, what a crock of shit... if she hadnt generated an article she wouldnt have been attacked. Above all, the timing was very poor... she demonstrates a lack of respect and its clear her motives were to stir the pot and get some headlines but unfortunately just as their are people who dont realise this, there are idiots who actually take her word for what its worth which is sad.

* He says that Irwin has essentailly done nothing for conservation....... now there are so many things I could say...... but I think the $600,000 donates to an Australian fund speaks for itself. Yes there is no conservation ethic :rolleyes: . And that money doesnt go to his family so dont link it like that, people know its going towards conservation so yea no ethic their.... maybe he should pull his head out of his arse?

* The most annoying part, he claims Irwns zoo is a bad place... were animals are 'poked and prodded' and essentailly embaressed. Well for starters, animals such as the crocodiles are only their because Irwin saved them... alot were close to humans and if he hadnt rescued them they would currently be dead. But lets forget him risking his life to save them... and ask ourselves for example why did he go in and feed the crocs. For show? No, it was to replicate how they would hunt in the wild. You cant just leave a piece of meat for them and expect them to be happy... by going to the waters edge, you invoke a instinctual response and replicate how they would attack prey in the wild. And then their is also the whole interactive part of the park, animals aernt poked and prodded, nice use of negative connotations, but their are people who supervise and ensure the animals wellbeing. At the end of the day, this more interactive style helps people to appreciate nature... something that a wildlife park where you see a koala 200m away wont do in a million years. It is a very low act to have a go at his park, I believe its one of the best places around... alot of celebrties when they come to Australia make it their first port of call and Ive heard nothing but positive comments about it... from naturists who care for the wellbeing of animals and your avg joe..

*And lastly, he brings politics into it.... the author would obiously do anything for a story, suggesting that somehow Irwins shows were a good way for governments to neglect their environment responsibilties? Well sorry, he wasnt overly popular in Australia (his show that is), so one important ingreident for his thoery is down the drain, and secondly its just a ridiculous proposition. People are not stupid, its not like becaue of watching Irwin you are going to then accept companies dumping toxic chemicals into the water etc.

If you are fooled by this article, then you are truly and idiot... its just another character attack on a man who is mainly mourned because he was just a good bloke... not just because he did so much for conservation. There are many more points that I go highlight that are not factual.... but Ive wasted enough time already.
 
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Jiga

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Really Schoolies, you think that much of him?
I think he was a decent person and doesnt deserve his character to be attacked at all... especially striaght after his passing. But then again, Id say this for any individual, its just common decency. Germain Greer is the scum of the earth as far as Im concerned.
 

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Schoolies_2004 said:
Yes her motives are relavent,
But it is not relevant to the truth of the assertions, which is the issue. I'm not interested in Greer's motives, I'm interested in whether what she's saying is true or not. What you're saying falls into the trap of attacking the person.
Schoolies_2004 said:
because twats like yourself ...
I stopped reading after that. I'm not going to bother discussing something with a person who won't exchange ideas rationally. Attacking me by name-calling does nothing to advance your argument.
 

Jiga

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I stopped reading after that. I'm not going to bother discussing something with a person who won't exchange ideas rationally. Attacking me by name-calling does nothing to advance your argument.
I think its for the better. Once your off your moral high horse, and forget about always being politically correct even in the most ridicuolous of situations, you can continue on :rolleyes:
 

Not-That-Bright

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I think its for the better. Once your off your moral high horse, and forget about always being politically correct even in the most ridicuolous of situations, you can continue on
Maybe once you get off your high horse, calling anyone who disagrees with you a 'stupid twat' the debate can continue.
 

Jiga

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Maybe once you get off your high horse, calling anyone who disagrees with you a 'stupid twat' the debate can continue.
No I dont call people who diagree with me that.... but in these extenuating circumstances where you have individuals agreeing with some frootloop some harsh words have to be used. Im sure alot of Australias would agree with me, who the hell would support Germaine Greer! Apart from those who are trying to be politically correct and stand on the moral high ground... 'Oh shes entitled to her opinion'.... yeah forget their is family involved. Im finished here.
 

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Schoolies_2004 said:
I think its for the better. Once your off your moral high horse, and forget about always being politically correct even in the most ridicuolous of situations, you can continue on :rolleyes:

rofl. HE'S being 'politically correct'?? imo Greer is (despite what you think of her comments) the one being the most out there and un-pc.

how can you toe the nation line in your unequivocal support of the idol irwin, and call someone else whose opinion is actually against that being 'politically correct'?

that was a really decent debate for a while, until you started insulting people. what makes you any better than greer then?
 

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schoolies: if you want to have your arguments respected and debated reasonably, why don't you stop using such sensational and rude terms such as : 'Greer is a wicked old bitch' 'fruitloop' and 'twat'.

what is it getting you? and why always bring up weak arguments like 'who is going to mourn for her death' etc. that is disrespectful to her family, friends and (yes) supporters.

it seems like your arguments DO resort to attacking the person...
 

Jiga

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rofl. HE'S being 'politically correct'?? imo Greer is (despite what you think of her comments) the one being the most out there and un-pc.

how can you toe the nation line in your unequivocal support of the idol irwin, and call someone else whose opinion is actually against that being 'politically correct'?

that was a really decent debate for a while, until you started insulting people. what makes you any better than greer then?
Just because it goes against popular belief doesnt mean it isnt a politically correct statement/article etc! Its been stated in the media as well that she is just being poltically correct... having a go at Australians because they mourn the loss of a good man but dont denounce him for the mistakes he made in life.

EDIT;

what is it getting you? and why always bring up weak arguments like 'who is going to mourn for her death' etc. that is disrespectful to her family, friends and (yes) supporters.
OMFG. Its direspectful to her family..... yeah I suppose its not direspectful having a go at a man just after hes been killed and his family along with a nation is mourning.... and you wander why I use harsh lanuage with comments like that. Feminist I presume Ennaybur?
 
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Ennaybur

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Schoolies_2004 said:
Just because it goes against popular belief doesnt mean it isnt a politically correct statement/article etc! Its been stated in the media as well that she is just being poltically correct... having a go at Australians because they mourn the loss of a good man but dont denounce him for the mistakes he made in life.

EDIT;



OMFG. Its direspectful to her family..... yeah I suppose its not direspectful having a go at a man just after hes been killed and his family along with a nation is mourning.... and you wander why I use harsh lanuage with comments like that. Feminist I presume Ennaybur?
if you read my other posts you will realise that im nto condoning what she said. i never agreed with it, and i think it was inappropriate what she said considering the family's recent loss. nevertheless, how can you possibly preach this against her when u are doing precisely the same thing? hypocritical much? where she shoudl have been more careful about stating her opinion on the media and not attacking the person, it's a lesson to learn and i can't see how you can use such derogatory terms towards people and pretend to be differnet.

i can also see where the argument against this idolisation of irwin comes from, i mean 'a nation is mourning' .. it becomes so insincere and sensaionalised by the media that i find it almost disrespectful to him and his family

btw. dont fucking 'presume' anything about me okay? you want to align me with a group so that you can target that and take cheap shots. how about respecting a person on their individual merits .. not 'fucking feminists'

"Its been stated in the media as well that she is just being poltically correct... having a go at Australians because they mourn the loss of a good man but dont denounce him for the mistakes he made in life."


oh well if the media says it ...
 

Jiga

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if you read my other posts you will realise that im nto condoning what she said. i never agreed with it, and i think it was inappropriate what she said considering the family's recent loss. nevertheless, how can you possibly preach this against her when u are doing precisely the same thing? hypocritical much? where she shoudl have been more careful about stating her opinion on the media and not attacking the person, it's a lesson to learn and i can't see how you can use such derogatory terms towards people and pretend to be differnet.
Im not attacking her just after she has died am I? That is the lowest of lows, that is scum... whether its Joe Bloggs up the road or a decent guy like Steve Irwin, it shows a distinct lack of respect.

i can also see where the argument against this idolisation of irwin comes from, i mean 'a nation is mourning' .. it becomes so insincere and sensaionalised by the media that i find it almost disrespectful to him and his family
Although I agree the media has taken it further than it actually is, I belive the nation was mourning.... EVERYONE I know was shocked and felt saddened by his death.

oh well if the media says it ...
It was a quote from a respected politician. And its obvious she was being politically correct, calling Australians idiots because we felt the loss of him... and then acting like we werent aware of his mistakes in life so she pointed them out just after his passing.
 
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Ennaybur

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if you think that 'calling australians idiots' is pc then i dno where you're coming from.

again, you use this 'scum' word? i know what you're saying; some of the things she said certainly wer uncalled for, but it's a bit much to say that she is the devil incarnate. if the media etc feels the need to blow things up to incredible magnitudes, like we both agreed, then don't you think it's fair that somone comes out to oppose the idolatry and covering over of his flaws?

sure he died, (i was and am sadddened) but it doesnt mean he didnt have flaws (and im not saying that you said that) so i dont think that it is very great to make him out to be a saint either. it gets a bit much. respect him as a very valueable human being. greer is also allowed to have her opinion wihtout being flamed to no end.
 

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You're a strange kid, schoolies - Greer's comments were blunt, not politically correct. As others have said time and again, she wasn't attacking the person (something that you yourself are more than guilty of), she was merely attacking the public's blind, blinkered and unashamedly nationalistic reaction to Irwin's death in a provocative manner.
 

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Germaine Greer
- Lacked any fact in her argument about Steve's treatment of animals. how does she know? is she a zoologist? Does she know anything Steve has done at all for the environment? And evidently she knows more about stingrays!

-Lacks any credibility in the issue and also, what the fuck has she done for the animals? Precisely dick all

- Called Australians who sympathised with Irwin and his family "idiots"
- Has constantly bagged out Australia and our culture even though she hasn't lived here since the 60's.

- Said it was an embarassment that we are treating this like Diana's death. Why would it be? What made Diana so special? Yes she helped a lot in Africa, similarly to what Steve Irwin did with the environment. Seriously, is it because she was part of the Royal family we must feel more for Diana's death than Steve Irwins. Give me a break.

- Lacks any compassion to say this THE DAY AFTER THE MAN DIED AND A GRIEVING FAMILY WERE STILL COMING TO TERMS WITH IT. I mean, how fucking cold is that? Even my worst enemy, I would never say that about because they still have a family. Jesus Christ woman. Yes her opinion, but fucking hell any1 tell her to keep her opinion to herself, especially when she KNEW it would spread around the world and his family would undoubtly hear it. I'm not too sure they care tho, she's a pretty worthless individual in the grand scheme of things....unlike Irwin
 
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Generator

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People, if you are going to denounce Greer, you would be best to try and adopt a constructive approach, because you only show your ignorance (and you help to reinforce one of her long-standing arguments) by belittling her contribution to the world of academic thought.
 

Jiga

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People, if you are going to denounce Greer, you would be best to try and adopt a constructive approach, because you only show your ignorance (and you help to reinforce one of her long-standing arguments) by belittling her contribution to the world of academic thought.
Ah I think Otay summarised the argument prity well. Who cares if its wasnt in the right 'format', this isnt an essay, its a forum.... his view came across correctly and Im sure alot of people would agree with it!!!
 
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It's a forum for discussions, not pathetic little rants.

I can't stop anyone from posting material such as that (provided that it sits within the forum's rules, of course), but that isn't to say that I'm just going to sit back and let such posts slide without comment.
 

Jiga

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Oh 'pathetic little rant' your attacking me lol

Anyway, these 'pathetic rants' are what the majority of Australians believe... I havent come across one person yet who has supported Greer like I have seen in this forum! Even I will agree some points had a meaning to them in her article, but for the most part, it was trash talk with no basis and purely aimed at stiring the pot.
 
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