The Aether (1 Viewer)

[insane_laughter]

at my school there are only 4 people doing Physics and 3 of us are having an argument in relation the existance of the aether.
I am the only person who believes it exists and the other two think it doesn't.
We have been on this argument for 6 months and havent reached a conclusion yet. I was just wondering what other peoples ideas on this topic are.

 

[Constip8edSkunk]

it doesnt matter whether the aether exists or not - it is not required.

there is no such thing as an absolute frame of reference however, which was what the aether's frame was considered 2 b b4 einstein.

 

[-=«MÄLÅÇhïtÊ»=-]

but in terms of the hsc syllabus there is no aether and that was proven by that experiennt (which i have forgotten its name), which u need to remember in detail
=p

 

[wogboy]

Yeah the MM experiment (Michelson-Morley). It proved that the speed of light you measure is independent of your frame of reference, whether your standing still or moving relative to a light source, you will measure the speed of light to be c.

So what does this have to do with aether? Well aether is a theoretical substance through EM waves can propogate, which is considered to be 100% "stationary". With aether, since light/EM waves travel through it, the speed of light relative to aether must be fixed at c. However, the speed of light we measure all the time (regardless of our motion) is c as well (proven by MM, and a few other observations like sending atomic clocks on planes around the world). There is a problem here. Since our speed relative to light is c and the speed of aether relative to light is c, we must always be stationary with respect to aether! So if we're always at rest with respect to aether, it may as well not exist. You can't run through the aether, because as you walk around aether moves with you. This also means different people "see" aether differently. If we have 2 guys walking in different directions to each other, and aether is stationary relative to both of them you know there's something dodgy. Whether or not you want to accept this type of aether is up to you, but I personally don't.

As well as the MM experiment supporting special relativity (and various others), Maxwell's laws of EM waves (developed before MM & Einstein) goes hand in hand with special relativity, since from his equations it can be mathematically derived (long & complicated) that the speed of light is related only to the permittivity & permaebility of the medium it travels through, which have been proven to be constant (independent of your actual motion through it). Since special relativity is incompatible with the aether theory, it's almost certain that aether doesn't exist.

Of course we can't be 100% sure of anything (could be a worldwide conspiracy ) , but I'm inclined to believe in special relativity and no aether.

 

[underthesun]

The aether could be anything, and it can do anything, and whether it exists or not it does not screw with the fact that light did not need a medium to pass, since it's an EM

I personally think the ether, the air that you breathe, the food that you eat, are not real. Anyways you can never be sure if what you think real is real. What if we're inside the matr

 

[elizabethy]

Originally posted by -=MLhtʻ=-
but in terms of the hsc syllabus there is no aether and that was proven by that experiennt (which i have forgotten its name), which u need to remember in detail
=p

michelson morley!!!!

 

[inasero]

as john has elaborated, the conclusion of the michelson morley experiment, contrary to popular belief, was NOT that the aether did not exist, but that its presence did not matter in the long run and its need was made redundant...
slight but significant difference there...

 

[Nashdac]

I thought it was Einstein that said that the Aether was not needed. Michelson and Morley just tried to prove the existence of the Aether and failed in doing so.
My belief is that the Aether is a foolish pipe dream that is non-existent.

 

[mommba]

i don't think aether exists.....if it does exist michelson morley or other scientists would've detected it.....hehehehe

 

[...]

i think this topic should be closed now....

for the sake of pleasing the markers....
just write that the aether doesn't exist due to the M&M experiment and the fact that Einstein stated light travels at the same speed in a vacumm...

 

[haz_it_all]

well if in an exam u write that Michelson Morley experiment DISPROVED the ether then that wuld be incorrect....Michelson + Morley kept tryin to prove that there was an ether but they got NULL results....it wasnt till Einstein's theory of Special Relativity which stated that speed of light was constant for all frames of reference of the observor. And as the Constipated Skunk said - the ether is not required....

 

[Roors]

i personally think u shouldnt be arguing over the aether...lol...if someone that dusnt do physics would read that....i no wat they'd think... "no life". not saying that you dont....but maybe u should get something more interesting to worry about
(im leaviung this open arent i....im gonna be attacked arghhh)

 

[Nashdac]

But arguing is fun and it happened to be what we were studying as well as the fact the it was linked to the previous argument in which I reckon that Nothingness exists, Insane Laughter just used the theory of the Aether to try to proved me wrong and it carried on from there.

 

[Rahul]

arguing with others is the best way to learn about something or show you know something

but seriously, for this you just need to know what they want us to know. ie- that M-M tried to prove that ether did exist, but the 'null' result suggested, if not proved that the aether did not exist. then you may include how einstein developed his special theory of relativity, in which he postulated that the speed of light was a constant value and that space-time changes to 'accomodate' this. he also stated that aether was not needed to explain this behaviour of light.

 

[jnothman]

According to the definition they were playing by when MM did their experiment, the aether doesn't exist...

If you want to redefine your own aether, enjoy.

 

[Rahul]

but will the hsc markers accept it? what if you can provide enough evidence...