The Law Guide / FAQ (1 Viewer)

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MoonlightSonata

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Sections:

1. Should I study law?
... Things to consider - course difficulty, your interests, salary, job opportunities & more.

2. University
... Information about law schools - where to study, entrance requirements, law classes, students, etc.

3. Transfers
... All about how to transfer into law.

4. Employment & Post-uni
... Career options, finding a job, different firms, clerkships, what employers want, etc.

5. The Legal Profession
... What lawyers do, salary, workload, barristers/solicitors, judges, wigs/robes, etc.

Credits & Disclaimer

Credits
Written/edited by MoonlightSonata, unless otherwise stated. Thanks to those who have contributed content, Frigid in particular.

Disclaimer
While attempts have been made to provide correct advice, Bored of Studies and the writers of and contributors to this guide ("we") do not in any way guarantee the accuracy of this information. To the maximum extent permitted by law, we exclude completely all liability to any person or business for loss or damage of any kind (however caused, including by negligence) arising from or relating in any way to the material in these forums and/or any use of this guide. You use the information provided in this guide entirely at your own risk. For advice, ultimately the most reliable place to turn to is the university you wish to study at, or the University Admissions Centre, as the case may be. We also draw your attention to the general Bored of Studies disclaimer, which you are bound by.
 
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MoonlightSonata

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1. Should I study law?

Contents:
Will I find law interesting?
How hard is it, intellectually?
How much reading is involved?
What is the workload like?
Will it increase my job prospects?
What about salary?
What skills do I need?
Does HSC legal studies help?
Do I have to do oral presentations and mooting?
What is life like for a law student?


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Will I find law interesting?

I can't know for certain whether you will find law interesting. However, the following list of questions may give you an indication. If you answer 'yes' to most of the following, then you are probably more likely to find law interesting:

1. Are you good at English? Law is all about language; the way we understand, think and express ourselves are particularly important in legal matters and English ability helps a great deal.

2. Do you enjoy argument or debate? Argumentative people often enjoy law. Strength in reasoning and critical thinking will help because you have to apply the law to facts. Also, often those who are good at debating find an interest in mooting.

3. Do you like problem solving? In comprehending cases and legal materials, it is useful to be able to break down an issue and fit it into categories. The ability to think clearly and critically helps in being able to analyse incredibly complex fact scenarios and isolate important parts, in order to slot them into relevant legal boxes.

4. Do you want to have a meaningful role to play in society? Law is the backbone of society - it governs how we interact and how power is distributed. Those who enjoy dealing with real issues that effect society and the individual within it may find the practical, real-life application of law to be a fascinating and rewarding explanation of how society really works.

5. Do you read much? As you have probably guessed, law does involve a fair bit of reading. However, the quantity is not so important as the quality. Often, judges use highly sophisticated language in expressing complicated legal reasoning. Cases can also involve intricate fact situations. You don't have to be an English expert. You can get by if you work hard. But if you are particularly weak at English, beware: law will be difficult for you.

6. Are you interested in morals and justice? There is a difference between law and justice, but in the end the law is mostly an attempt to maintain social harmony in the most just way possible. If you're interested in how society gives effect to this objective in its rules and regulations, or if you're interested in human rights and how to protect them, law may prove interesting to you.

7. Do you enjoy being pushed intellectually? Law can be challenging, there is no question of that. That is a good thing if you can handle it and if you enjoy learning and being pushed.

8. Are you interested in news/politics, and the world/society around you? It is not a rule, but often these types of people tend to be quite interested in law, especially constitutional, criminal and human rights law.

Of course, these are not necessary conditions for one to be interested in law (ie. you don't have to have them), but you will be more likely to be interested in law if you do answer yes to them.

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How hard is it, intellectually?

Whilst you might need a UAI of 99+ to be admitted to a law degree, this doesn't mean that you need a UAI of 99+ to be capable of doing a law degree. In fact, the Dean of the Faculty of Law at the University of Sydney has suggested that, academically speaking, a UAI of only 80 would be sufficient.

Notwithstanding UAI however, which is not necessarily indicative of a person's intellect, law is a challenging course. First year subjects are generally of average difficulty, but some later year subjects such as contracts and property law are considerably complicated areas that require a certain level of mental aptitude.

The vast majority of students who are taking law are students who gained UAIs of 99+, and thus competition is quite strong. High marks are therefore particularly difficult to achieve in comparison with other courses. But a reasonably capable student who completes all of their readings and puts a reasonable amount of effort into their assessment tasks, will generally receive a Distinction or high Credit.

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How much reading is involved?

The workload isn't that bad, though there is a large step up in the readings when you hit second year. The quantity and depth of the reading varies. UNSW law readings:

Foundations of Law
Readings: ~15 pages per class (course reader; fair bit of historical readings).
Reading depth: Light
Assessments: Mid-Semester Exam (30%), Class Participation [CP] (10%), Casenote (60%).

Torts
Readings: 20-25 pages per class (textbook and course reader; a few case extracts and some theory each class).
Reading depth: Average
Assessments: CP (10%), Mid-Semester Assignment (50%), Final Exam (40%).

Public Law
Readings: 25-35 pages per class (Textbook).
Reading depth: Mostly Average/Some Heavy
Assessments: CP (10%), Final Exam (90%).

Contracts 1 & 2
Readings: 25-35 pages per class (textbook, casebook and supplementary materials booklet).
Reading depth: Mostly Heavy/Some Average
Contracts 1 Assessments: CP (20%), Final Exam (80%).
Contracts 2 Assessments: CP (10%), Assignment (40%), Final Exam (50%).

Criminal Law 1
Readings: 35-40 pages per class (textbook; occasionally a recent case or news article).
Reading depth: Mostly Average/Some Light
Assessment: CP (10%), Court Research Paper (30%), Final Exam (60%)

Criminal Law 2
Readings: 30-40 pages per class (textbook).
Reading depth: Average
Assessment: CP (10%), Research Essay (30%), Final Exam (60%)

Property Law 1 & 2
Readings: 20-30 pages per class (2 textbooks; one general one and one on equity).
Reading depth: Heavy
Assessments: CP (20%), Optional Research Assignment (40%), Exam (80%, or 40% if you did the optional assignment).

Administrative Law
Readings: 20-30 pages per class (textbook and course reader).
Reading depth: Mostly Average/Some heavy
Assessments: Group presentation/class participation (20%), Choice of mid-semester test or essay (30% - but maximisable), Exam (80% or 50%, depending on whether you did better in the exam or the mid-semester/essay). Also must complete a Tribunal report (Pass/Fail).

Law, Lawyers & Society
Readings: 20-30 pages per class (textbook and course reader).
Reading depth: Light
Assessments: Class participation (10%), Kingsford Legal Centre Interviewing session and Report (10%), Group presentation and handout (15%), take-home exam (65%).

Legal Theory
Readings: 20-25 pages per class (course reader).
Reading depth: Heavy
Assessments: Three 1800 word essays (33.3% each).

Litigation 1
Readings: 30-40 pages per class (textbook and course reader).
Reading depth: Average
Assessments: Class participation (10%), Mid-semester exam - civil (45%), Final exam - criminal (45%).

Litigation 2
Readings: 30-40 pages per class (textbook).
Reading depth: Average
Assessments: Mid-semester exam (40%), Final exam (60%), Optional class participation (10%).

Federal Constitutional Law
Readings: 15-25 pages per class (textbook).
Reading depth: Mostly Average/Some Heavy
Assessments: Mid-semester assignment (40%), Final assignment (60%).

Business Associations
Readings: 30-40 pages per class (textbook and course reader).
Reading depth: Average
Assessments: Class participation (20%), Essay (30%), Final exam (50%).

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What is the workload like?

Yet to be added.

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Will it increase my job prospects?

Generally, yes. Knowledge of the law is useful for a wide variety of professions. If you intend to pursue a commercial career in business, a law degree will certainly increase your attractiveness to employers.

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What about salary?

Top Tier Firms

The 2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey lists the salaries for Sydney top tier firms:

Graduate - $63,000 – $70,000. Average: $65,000
1st Year - $72,000 – $80,000. Average: $75,000
2nd Year- $80,000 – $95,000. Average: $87,000
3rd Year - $90,000 – $115,000. Average: $103,000
4th Year - $95,000 – $135,000. Average: $115,000
5th Year - $100,000 – $145,000. Average: $125,000
Senior Associate 1 - $130,000 – $145,000. Average: $135,000
Senior Associate 2 - $140,000 – $165,000. Average: $155,000
Senior Associate 3 - $150,000 – $190,000. Average: $170,000
Senior Associate 4 - $160,000 – $220,000. Average: $180,000
Senior Associate 5-Special Counsel - $180,000 – $295,000. Average: $220,000

Other employment areas, such as Big 4 accounting, investment banking and consulting, would provide similar, if not better salaries.

Mid Tier Firms

2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for Sydney mid tier firms:

Graduate - $50,000 – $66,000. Average: $60,000
1st Year - $59,000 – $78,000. Average: $70,000
2nd Year- $67,000 – $85,000. Average: $78,000
3rd Year - $68,000 – $105,000. Average: $90,000
4th Year - $78,000 – $130,000. Average: $102,000
5th Year - $98,000 – $125,000. Average: $110,000
Senior Associate 1 - $105,000 – $145,000. Average: $125,000
Senior Associate 2 - $114,000 – $150,000. Average: $135,000
Senior Associate 3 - $123,000 – $180,000. Average: $145,000
Senior Associate 4 - $135,000 – $180,000. Average: $150,000
Senior Associate 5-Special Counsel - $145,000 – $255,000. Average: $190,000

Small Firms

2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for Sydney small firms:

Graduate - $45,000 – $65,000. Average: $50,000
1st Year - $50,000 – $70,000. Average: $67,000
2nd Year- $56,000 – $80,000. Average: $67,000
3rd Year - $65,000 – $100,000. Average: $76,000
4th Year - $75,000 – $110,000. Average: $88,000
5th Year - $80,000 – $120,000. Average: $100,000
Senior Associate 1 - $98,000 – $120,000. Average: $108,000
Senior Associate 2+ - $105,000 – $220,000. Average: $155,000

Partners

2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for partner renumeration in Sydney (average):

Top Tier Firms - $1,084,000
Mid Tier Firms - $676,500
Small Firms - $442,800


In-house

2007 Mahlab Corporate Survey salaries for Sydney:

1st Year - $60,000 – $85,000. Average: $72,000
2nd Year - $70,000 – $90,000. Average: $85,000
3rd Year - $85,000 – $125,000. Average: $100,000
4th Year - $105,000 – $150,000. Average: $130,000
5th Year - $120,000 – $170,000. Average: $150,000
6th + Years - $130,000 – $220,000. Average: $180,000
DGC - $145,000– $285,000. Average: $235,000
General Counsel - $165,00 – $600,000+. Average: $290,000


Salaries Overseas

Since law is a generalist degree, the opportunity to work overseas in areas of commercial law has grown increasingly popular. Australian law graduates have found themselves competitive hires for law firms in London, Dubai and Hong Kong.

"Although costs of living may be higher, graduates can expect average salaries to be far higher in several overseas destinations. In top law firms in New York they can expect US$125,000 ($170,600). In London it’s around £50,000 ($118,000) for London firms and £80,000 for US-based firms in the UK. In Hong Kong they can expect HK$804,000 ($141,700) from London firms and HK$972,000 ($171,300) from US-based firms. This compares to about $52,000 as a base salary in Australian firms": Lawyer's Weekly.

2006 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for overseas practice:

Hong Kong Salaries:
Newly Qualified - HK$56,000 – HK$68,000
PQE 1 - HK$60,000 – HK$75,000
PQE 2 - HK$65,000 – HK$82,000
PQE 3 - HK$70,000 – HK$88,000
PQE 4 - HK$76,000 – HK$97,000
PQE 5 - HK$80,000 – HK$105,000

London Salaries:
Newly Qualified - £46,000 – £55,000
PQE 1 - £50,000 – £61,000
PQE 2 - £55,000 – £70,000
PQE 3 - £58,000 – £77,000
PQE 4 - £65,000 – £82,000
PQE 5 - £72,000 – £89,000

New York Salaries:
Newly Qualified - US$125,000 – US$144,000
PQE 1 - US$130,000 – US$150,000
PQE 2 - US$135,000 – US$170,000
PQE 3 - US$140,000 – US$185,000
PQE 4 - US$160,000 – US$195,000
PQE 5 - US$175,000 – US$210,000

Singapore Salaries:
Newly Qualified - S$95,000 – S$130,000
PQE 1 - S$120,000 – S$150,000
PQE 2 - S$130,000 – S$170,000
PQE 3 - S$150,000 – S$200,000
PQE 4 - S$155,000 – S$235,000
PQE 5 - S$170,000 – S$250,000


Barristers

Barristers, being a sole traders, often have a greater income range. A newly-admitted barrister, with little experience and briefs, may scarcely break-even for the first few years. On the other hand, experienced senior counsel may charge appearance fees of upwards of seven thousand dollars per day.


Non-corporate and public-sector

Public sector and non-corporate salaries tend to be lower than their corporate counterparts.

For example, a graduate Associate to a Federal judge is paid approximately $48K. Private suburban firms might pay a graduate $35 - 40K.

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What skills do I need?

To be successful in your legal studies, hard work is of course the most desirable trait. Good English language ability is also a highly desirable skill, without which study may be difficult. Other skills are also useful, such as strength in problem-solving and critical thinking.

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Do I have to do oral presentations and mooting?

Mooting

You do not have to participate in mooting -- it is an extra-curricular activity. However you should consider giving mooting a go as it develops your oral argument skills, provides practice in preparing and researching cases, gives you a chance to actually apply your learning, is attractive to employers, and many students find it to be great fun.

Oral Presentations

Occasionally you may have to do an oral presentation as part of the assessment marks for a subject. (Some teachers prefer to use an oral presentation assessment to determine class participation marks instead of an ongoing assessment of how people contribute in each class, though this is less common.)

However, oral presentations are not exclusive to law. You will encounter them in all sorts of subjects, including accounting and economics. Oral presentations are nothing to be afraid of, and in the real world you will have to get used to dealing with people. It is best to learn these skills now rather than be afraid to give that business talk when it really matters!

Class Participation

At most universities, you will be expected to contribute to class discussion for most law subjects, though class participation usually constitutes a low percentage of total marks (10-20%). In some cases it is maximisable.

Class participation has been said by some to be marked somewhat capriciously at times.

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What is life like for a law student?

Yet to be added.

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MoonlightSonata

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2. University

Contents:
Which uni should I attend?
What are the differences between unis?
Do employers care where you study?
What are the entry requirements?
What if I don't get straight into law?
What degree should I combine law with?
What subjects will I study?
What are law classes like?
Does HSC legal studies help?
What are law students like? Are they competitive, hot, arrogant?
Who are the law students on these forums?


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Which uni should I attend?

Preliminary note

This is a very controversial question, and the answer will depend on what you seek from your law degree. I will attempt to provide a concise, unbiased and accurate answer. I am not concerned here with giving you a spiel about all universities being equal, or making people feel good about their individual university. Prospective students do not need niceties, they need accurate information.

Law is a useful degree for many careers and one may not wish to become a lawyer. This section will focus on what university to choose with regard to pursuing a career in law. So far, it only contains information that I consider accurate. [Lack of information on particular universities does not indicate lack of approval or any lesser quality, recognition or respect. The only reason I have not added information about certain universities is because I do not yet have the knowledge to comment on them.]

Does it make a difference?

It does make a difference where you get your law degree, all else being equal. To deny this would be wishful thinking. Some institutions have a better reputation and will therefore provide you with a better chance on the academic level of being appealing to employers. There is no question about this.

However, it is a matter of "to what extent". Experience, good grades, personal skills, character and participation in other activities are also extremely important factors which combined outweigh the importance of the degree. So degree is not everything by all means, but it does make a difference. Think of your academic degree as a weapon in your arsenal. Some might be finer balanced or sharper than others, giving an edge in the fight. But it doesn't determine the battle by itself.

The Options

The most prestigious Australian university for law is the University of Sydney. It is a very old university that still carries a strong reputation and many ties in the legal community. For this reason it is perhaps advisable to seek placement in this university first.

The University of New South Wales is also up at the top of Australian law schools, in terms of reputation. USyd and UNSW are widely regarded as equal first, with USyd having a slight edge in prestige due to its long history. Recently the Federal Government's assessment of excellence found that UNSW leads all Australian universities for the quality of learning and teaching in law.

This section is still under construction, but here is a relevant article:

Law schools - hankering for a ranking

Australian law schools love the kudos associated with a strong showing in rankings surveys. The latest attempt to rank Australian law schools was recently released evoking in some schools glee, in others gloom. FindLaw investigates this latest rankings survey and asks whether rankings really matter at all.
The 2004 edition of The Good Universities Guide hit the newsstands and bookshops a few weeks ago. In 448 pages it endeavours to comprehensively rank Australian universities and the degree courses they offer.

Part 1 ranks each university according to a wide variety of academic, social and statistical criteria. Not surprisingly members of the Group of Eight coalition were rated as the most prestigious institutions in Australia. The so-called Group of Eight comprises The University of Adelaide, The Australian National University, The University of Melbourne, Monash University, The University of New South Wales, The University of Queensland, The University of Sydney and The University of Western Australia. For many prospective students this is where their analysis of Australian universities starts and stops.

Part 2 analyses 30 broad fields of study including law. The quality or otherwise of various law schools was measured against criteria including students’ perceptions of teaching quality, their overall satisfaction with the course, their success in getting a job and their starting salary. According to these measures the Law Schools of The University of Newcastle, The University of Wollongong, The University of New South Wales and Bond University are the best in Australia; at least according to the Good Guide’s comparison of student surveys.

However, as the Good Guide concedes their ranking and rating is merely an indicator and does not present the full picture.

“There is on going debate among academics about the reliability, use and validity of the Course Experience Questionnaire (CEQ). Some institutions argue that the CEQ has not been designed for the purposes of inter-institutional comparisons, CEQ data do not necessarily provide an accurate comparison of differences in the quality of education or the level of student satisfaction from institution to institution,” says the Guide on page 41.

The assumption is that the leading law schools could be objectively and qualitatively identified, as if such identification really matters.

In preparing this story FindLaw spoke with students, staff and graduates from numerous Australian law schools and with lawyers and human resources professionals from a number of Australian law firms. While students and graduates understandably exhibited some parochial pride and marketing professionals were eager to put forward a positive spin on their particular school, there was apparent indifference about rankings and comparisons. FindLaw found that good students were more interested in making the most of their opportunities, whichever institution they studied at, and law firms simply wanted well-rounded students.

Julia Sweeney was admitted as a Legal Practitioner in 2001 after three and a half years studying with the Law Extension Committee of the University of Sydney (‘LEC’), an institution not mentioned in the Good Guide. Sweeney received her Diploma of Law from the Legal Practitioners Admission Board and after a career as a registered nurse is now employed as a medical negligence lawyer with Sydney firm Craddock Murray Neumann.

I asked Julia whether her qualification, a Diploma of Law vis-a-vis a Bachelor of Laws, was a barrier to securing a position as a lawyer?

“As a mature-age student this was a major concern to me. However, my experience and that of my friends was quite the opposite. Having a Diploma in Law has not ever been a barrier at all, in fact, when I have gone for interviews it was always viewed positively.

“In December 1999 I organized a panel of speakers to address LEC students. The opening address was given by Justice Windeyer and the speakers included: John Kelly, a Partner with Mallesons Stephen Jacques; Siobhain Mullany, a Criminal Lawyer with the Legal Aid Commission; and Michael Ryan a Partner with McClellands. Some of the speakers had completed the LEC course but most were employers who were all unanimous in their opinion that the course was not a barrier to employment and, in fact, often gave candidates a leading edge because of the perceived demands of the course,” Sweeney replied.

A survey of several law firms revealed that, whereas there were formerly distinct preferences for graduates from certain law schools this is no longer the case. Adele Brady, Director of Human Resources at Freehills identified a student with the right package of skills as the sort of candidate Freehills is seeking. I asked Brady what she meant by the “right package of skills”?

“The particular school a new recruit went to is not as important anymore, and is not the reason why people succeed at Freehills.

“We are looking for more than just core legal skills when we recruit. Our research from clients shows that they want to work with lawyers who understand their business. Australian law schools are justifiably recognised worldwide for the high quality of their legal training, but we need to select graduates who also have interpersonal and communications skills. Most students only do selected commercial law subjects at university anyway, and we have a comprehensive graduate-training program to develop these skills. Primarily we are looking for the best students who have a package of skills and the ability to develop into the commercially aware lawyers our clients demand. We find these good graduates in all universities, and it's important to look everywhere for the top people . . . [T]hese days we can't exclude any school from our search for the best and brightest. This is because candidates with the right combination of skills can thrive and rise to the top in any one of them,” Brady said.

Claire Storey, Human Resources Consultant for Baker & McKenzie, concurred with Brady on this issue saying that it ultimately came down to the talent of the individual not the law school they attended.

“In our graduates we look for high academic achievement, energy, enthusiasm, entrepreneurial skills and a good grasp of external business environments. Ultimately, a lawyer’s career is driven by the individual,” Storey said.

Adele Brady conceded that Freehills had its preferences when recruiting in the 1980’s and 1990’s. Brady stressed however, that preferential treatment is no longer part of Freehills recruitment culture.

FindLaw was impressed by this admission because as our readers appreciate it is tough enough to compete for professional positions simply on one’s merits. Known to the author was a man who in the mid-1990’s completed a Diploma of Law (LEC) with outstanding results. He had an Economics degree and several years experience working in a major insurance company. Yet despite being qualified for the positions he applied for, he could not secure a position in a medium or large firm in Sydney. The consensus amongst his colleagues and friends remains that his LEC qualification was viewed unfavourably.

While FindLaw has no reason to doubt the veracity of Freehills’ claim, we wonder aloud whether things have really changed across the board in the recruiting practices of law firms? Would the likes of Justice Michael McHugh, Justice Margaret Beazley, Justice David Ireland and David Nock SC, all LEC graduates, secure positions if they were applying for graduate positions in 2004?

But lest FindLaw makes too much of its egalitarian analysis of Australian law schools it is important to acknowledge two very telling points made to us. Some law schools by the very fact that entry to them is fiercely competitive tend to produce extraordinarily gifted graduates. Nowhere is this more apparent than the University of New South Wales Law School, which has produced five Rhodes Scholars in the last seven years (and at least one other Runner-Up that the author is aware of).

Secondly, there is a perception that four universities dominate in the recruitment stakes: The University of Melbourne, Monash University, The University of Sydney and The University of New South Wales. But according to Claire Storey perception is not reality.

“There are naturally higher numbers of recruits from the larger law schools (eg. Melbourne, Monash, Sydney and New South Wales), however these are in proportion (as a percentage of total applicants from each school) to the number of applications received. [Although] the bulk of Baker & McKenzie’s recruits come from The University of New South Wales, The University of Sydney, Monash University and The University of Melbourne . . . we have also taken a significant number of clerks from Deakin University, The University of Technology, The University of Queensland, Bond University and The Australian National University,” Storey said.

So we come back to where we started – do law school rankings matter at all? To concerned parents who cough up $22.00 to buy the Good Guide – definitely; to the terminally elite – naturally; to well-performed graduates – no; and to the law firms – evidently not.

(From findlaw.com.au - original link now dead.)
Thanks to Frigid for providing the article.

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What are the differences between unis?

This section is under construction, but you may find the article above, "Law schools - hankering for a ranking", relevant or interesting.

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Do employers care where you study?

Yet to be added.

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What are the entry requirements?

Undergraduate Law

Generally undergraduate law degrees require a UAI in the mid to high 90's. Each university has different entry requirements. You can read about them at the different university law school websites:

Australian National University
Bond University
Monash University
Macquarie University
University of Queensland
University of Melbourne
University of Newcastle
University of New England
University of New South Wales
University of Sydney
University of Technology Sydney
University of Western Sydney
University of Wollongong


Graduate Law

Graduate law degrees are for students who have already completed an existing non-law degree. The entry selection process varies between universities, so it is best to clarify with the relevant institution. Generally the selection is based on (1) your university marks, and (2) your UAI, usually with less emphasis on your UAI.

Note that honours or post-graduate degrees may make entry much easier. For example, the UNSW law faculty states (here) that applicants with a completed Research Masters or PhD will automatically be offered a place. The USYD law faculty states that applicants with a PhD, or Masters degree by research or an Honours degree (especially First Class) generally receive an offer (see here).


Postgraduate Law

Be careful to differentiate between graduate law, which is a Bachelor of Laws degree for non-law graduates, and postgraduate law, which includes specialist degrees for law graduates. Postgraduate law includes masters degrees and PhDs that allow in-depth education at higher levels of difficulty. If you want a law degree, post-graduate law is not for you.

Note: There are some postgraduate degrees offered by some universities to non-law graduates, but these do not give you any legal qualifications. You need a Bachelor of Laws to practice law.

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What if I don't get straight into law?

If you do not make the cut-off for the law course you were seeking a place in, you have three primary options, listed below. You also have one alternate option if you not concerned about obtaining a law degree, but rather you simply wish to practice law.

1. Transfer

You can start another degree at a university and work as hard as you can during that year. At the end of the year, when it is time to submit university preferences to UAC, you then apply to transfer. Note that: (1) this can be very difficult to achieve if you are applying for a high UAI cut-off course, such as law at USYD, and (2) several universities have restrictions on transferring, including that you can only transfer after 1 year of tertiary study and no more. See the section on transfers.


2. Full fee-paying

As you know, the government subsidises your tertiary studies. This is why normal university places are called "Commonwealth Funded Places" (CFP). The old name for this scheme was the Higher Education Contribution Scheme (HECS).

However, several universities offer places where the government does not subsidise your degree and you can pay the full amount of the course fees. These are domestic full-fee paying places (DFEE). The advantage of doing this is that full-fee paying places allow entry to students with up to 5 UAI places lower than the required CFP cut-off. Note that this is a maximum. Some full fee paying course cut-offs, such as USYD law, can be only 1 or 2 points lower.

Thus, if you received a UAI of 97 and the CFP cut-off was 99.15, the university may have a full-fee paying cut-off of 96, allowing you to get in with a lower mark. You will of course have to pay a much higher fee (approximately $18,000-20,000 per year), and you must pay these fees upfront, on a per-semester basis. Compare this with CFP courses, where the fee is approximately $6000 a year, and is deferred (you pay it back slowly as you reach a certain salary).

Additionally, you can attempt to transfer from a DFEE place to a CFP place after 1 year of study in that degree. This is done through the normal transfer calculation, whereby your tertiary studies are combined with your UAI. For UNSW or USYD, to be competitive in transferring from DFEE to CSP, you would need a distinction average at uni and a UAI of around 96. (See here for more details.)


3. Graduate Law

You can always complete a non-law degree and then seek entry into a graduate law degree. The advantage is that you may perform to a higher standard in your second degree after having the discipline, scholarly training and experience you reap from any university degree (essay writing, research, independent learning, knowledge of the system, more realistic expectations, etc). The disadvantage of this is that you risk not being allowed entry and it will usually take longer to complete two separate degrees rather than a combined law degree.

Entry into graduate law is determined through considering your UAI and tertiary results, with emphasis on the latter. However, different universities vary on their admissions selection process for graduate law so it is best to seek advice from the relevant institution. Note that if you really just want to do a law degree, there is a danger (at least for some) of losing motivation throughout the first degree. This is a problem, since you will have to do well in your first degree to gain entry to graduate law.


4. Legal Practitioners Admission Board

If you have your heart set on practicing law, but for whatever reason university is not an option, you may like to consider the Legal Practioners Admission Board Diploma of Law course. It is much easier to get into than university law degrees, but it has been said that it is a very challenging course. You can find information on the course at this site:

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/lpab/ll_lpab.nsf/pages/lpab_dipinlaw

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What degree should I combine law with?

The short answer is it doesn't matter. More to be added later.

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What subjects will I study?

The subjects you will study depends on what university you attend and what you combine law with. Of the law subjects you will study, generally the core, compulsary courses are as follows:

Torts - law of civil wrongs; deals with wrongful acts between private individuals or groups, in particular the law of negligence.

Contract Law - deals with agreements between parties and the enforcement of mutual promises; how they are created, terminated, breached, what remedies can be sought and other related issues.

Criminal Law - deals with the laws regulating behaviour considered to be morally unacceptable and 'criminal'; types of crime (assault, public disorder, drug offences, rape, murder, etc), how the criminal justice system operates, procedural issues, defences and sentencing.

Property Law - covers the law governing private property - personal property, land law and equity; how property is defined, transferred, regulated and how to deal with competing property interests.

Administrative Law - deals with the law concerning accountability and control of government officials. Topics may include: delegated legislation, duty to give reasons for administrative decisions, freedom of information, the Ombudsman, Administrative Appeals Tribunals, and judicial review of administrative action.

Federal Constitutional Law/Public Law - deals with powers, regulations and rights relating to the most important legal document in Australia - the Constitution, and how our system of government works. Topics may include: legislative powers and their limitations, the Westminster system, federation, indigenous peoples and sovereignty, human rights and bills of rights, the federal parliament, the separation of powers and constitutional change.

Litigation - involves civil and criminal pre-trial procedure (including the process for initiating a case, pleading rules, serving court process, discovery and exchange of information between parties, etc) and trial procedure, including the presentation of evidence.

There are also a number of electives that one can choose to study. For example, international law, advanced torts, chinese law or internet law.

You can see what subjects various law faculties offer on their websites:
ANU
MAQU
UNSW
UOW
USYD
UTS
UWS

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What are law classes like?

Yet to be added.

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Does HSC legal studies help?

In short, no. You do not have to have studied legal studies and you will be at no disadvantage for not having undertaken it.

Undertaking legal studies in the HSC probably demonstrates your enthusiasm for law, which is great. Your legal studies in high school will give you a flavour of law within society and some insight into the type of fields you might study at university. However the background knowledge reaped from HSC Legal Studies is of little consequence in your actual law degree. The Legal Institutions (USYD) and Foundations of Law (UNSW) type courses, which run for 1 semester at the beginning of your law degree, cover anything important that you might have learnt in legal studies.

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What are law students like? Are they very competitive, hot, arrogant?

Law student noneother says:
Varies greatly. Those who are not hell bent on becoming lawyers I've noticed to be more down to earth. A handful have over inflated egos. Generally very articulate bunch of people, can make you feel inadequate on occassions.
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Who are the law students on these forums?

These are the people studying law on Bored of Studies. Considering that they are studying a variety of different degrees at different institutions, an endeavour has been made to list them in the chance that they may be able to provide people with specific information:

• Aerath - 2nd Year, USYD
• izzy88 - 4th Year, USYD


Please PM Aerath if your username is not here and you would like it to be. (Last updated September 2011)

[Back to: University | Main Contents]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MoonlightSonata

Retired
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
3,645
Gender
Female
HSC
N/A
3. Transfers

Contents:
What is the application process?
What will I need to transfer?
How are my marks calculated?
Where can I get the NRSL cut-offs?
What happens to my HECS debt?
Terminology


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What is the application process?

To transfer from a non-law degree to law, you need to make an application through the University Admissions Centre (UAC). The process is similar to how high-school students make their application during their HSC.

Since you have already completed some tertiary study, you are now classified as a Non-Recent School Leaver (NRSL). This differentiates you from Recent School Leavers, such as those year 12 students completing their HSC.

Application Methods
You can submit an application through UAC in two ways. The first is using Apply-By-Web, an online application process at the UAC website. Alternatively, you can apply by mail using the form in the 'commercial' version of the UAC guide. The UAC guide is approximately $15 and is available from most newsagents.

Important Note
Before you begin, it is important to note that some universities have requirements that you must meet to be eligible to transfer into the degrees they offer. One example is that USYD and UNSW do not accept transfers to law if you have undertaken more than 1 year (or equivalent) of university study. Remember to check the UAC guide or the relevant university faculty website to find out what the requirements of transfer are other than just UAI/tertiary marks. Some transfers require Personal Statements/Questionnaires (eg. transfer into Law at UTS).

Application Dates
Application usually opens in early August (like the HSC applications) and closes on 30 September. However, the UAC does accept late applications with a late fee charge. For 2006 admissions there are three extension dates, each with a higher late fee charge:

From 30 September - 31 October: $92 late fee.
From 31 October - 30 November: $103 late fee.
From 30 November - 2 February: $114 late fee.

However, the UAC warns on its website that you should apply as early as possible as most institutions will make the majority of their offers in the Main Round of offers. Additionally, some institutions will not consider applications after certain dates.

The Online Application: Apply-By-Web
The cost of a NRSL application is $35 (inc. GST). Remember to print out your receipt.

Fill out all the relevant information in your application slowly and doublecheck each time (the browser will force you to check and save before you proceed). Remember to note down your UAC Number (eg 95100xxxx) and your PIN (the digits of your birthday as DDMM, for example 1110 for October 11).

For the entry FTE (Full Time Equivalence), select the number of years to the end of the year. That is, if you are in first year, and are filling out the application during August, you write 1.0 years (two semesters) completed, instead of 0.5 years (one semester). This is because, by the time the UAC assessor comes to collect your data from your university, you will have had completed two semesters of study already.

Fill out your preferences from the course codes in the UAC guide in the order of preference. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong the first time around, because there is always opportunity to re-login and change things. Remember to print out your application summary for future reference.

Note: UAC states that Apply-By-Web does not support the Mozilla Firefox browser.

I've made my application, what now?
Your application will be processed by UAC and an offer will be made based on a similar system to the HSC applications (ie. supply-and-demand). Thus a uni that is accepting 50 NRSL students for your chosen course next year (and only based on UAI/tertiary marks) will offer the places to the 50 NRSL applicants with the highest UAI/tertiary marks.

An offer will be made the same time the Main Round of Offers are released (which is roughly 19th January). You can then use the UAC website to check/accept your offers. Some institutions may have online enrolment, while others need you to physically rock-up and enrol.

- Written by Frigid.

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What will I need to transfer?

Marks
Entry to law by transfer is based on a combination of your tertiary study marks and your UAI, each worth 50%. The tertiary study mark used is your Grade Point Average (GPA). How your marks are calculated is explained in detail below, in the next section.

You should be successful in transferring if you meet the Non-Recent School Leavers (NRSL) cut-off for the law course you are trying to transfer to. NRSL cut-offs can vary from year to year and are quite unpredictable. It is difficult to obtain what the NRSL cut-offs are because some universities either deny knowledge of them or will not release them to students, such as UNSW. USYD has proven willing to release NRSL cut-offs in the past.

Generally a UAI of at least 96 and a GPA of at least 6 will be competitive for transfer to UNSW or USyd.

Other Requirements
Some universities have specific requirements that you must meet to be eligible to transfer into the degrees they offer. One example is that USYD and UNSW do not accept transfers to law if you have undertaken more than 1 year (or equivalent) of university study. Remember to check the UAC guide or the relevant university faculty website to find out what the requirements of transfer are, other than UAI/tertiary marks. Some universities require Personal Statements/Questionnaires (eg. transfer into Law at UTS).

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How are my marks calculated?

Overview
If your Non-Recent School Leaver (NRSL) index meets the NRSL cut-off for the law course you are applying to, you should be accepted. Your NRSL index is usually calculated through a combination of your UAI and your university marks with a 50/50 weighting.

The university/UAC will take 3 steps:
1. Take your Grade Point Average (GPA)
2. Convert it to a Selection Rank out of 100
3. Average your Selection Rank and UAI.

It may seem complicated but it is actually really simple. Read on to find out how.


Step-by-Step Instructions

1. Write down your marks

First, write down the marks for every subject you have studied at university, along with how many credit points (or "units of credit") each subject is worth. If you have not completed all subjects yet, you may have to estimate the remaining subjects.
Example:

Econometrics 1 -- 78 -- 6 credit points (cp)
Macroeconomics -- 76 -- 6 cp
Microeconomics -- 70 -- 6 cp
Accounting 1A -- 63 -- 6 cp
Accounting 1B -- 71 -- 6 cp
Information Systems -- 87 -- 6 cp
Commercial Transactions A -- 79 -- 6 cp
Commercial Transactions B -- 81 -- 6 cp
2. Convert your marks into grades

Then convert each mark into a grade. This is done by working out which bracket your mark falls in:
• 85 - 100 = High Distinction
• 75 - 84 = Distinction
• 65 - 74 = Credit
• 50 - 64 = Pass
• 0 - 49 = Fail
Example:

Econometrics 1: 78 = Distinction
Macroeconomics: 76 = Distinction
Microeconomics: 70 = Credit
Accounting 1A: 63 = Pass
Accounting 1B: 71 = Credit
Information Systems: 87 = High Distinction
Commercial Transactions A: 79 = Distinction
Commercial Transactions B: 81 = Distinction
3. Convert your grades into points

Now, convert your grades into grade points based on the following:

High Distinction = 7
Distinction = 6
Credit = 5
Pass = 4
Pass Conceded = 3
Fail = 0
Example:

Econometrics 1: 78 = Distinction, GP (Grade Point) = 6
Macroeconomics: 76 = Distinction, GP = 6
Microeconomics: 70 = Credit, GP = 5
Accounting 1A: 63 = Pass, GP = 4
Accounting 1B: 71 = Credit, GP = 5
Information Systems: 87 = High Distinction, GP = 7
Commercial Transactions A: 79 = Distinction, GP = 6
Commercial Transactions B: 81 = Distinction, GP = 6
4. Calculate your Grade Point Average (GPA)

In summary, this is how to calculate GPA in the language of HSC Maths:
GPA = ( GP1 x CP1 + GP2 x CP2 + GP3 x CP3 + ... + GP'n' x CP'n' ) / ( CP1 + CP2 + CP3 + ... + CP'n' )
Let's go through it.

First, multiply each subject's grade point by how many credit points the subject is worth. Then add them all together.
Example:

Econometrics 1: GP (Grade Point) = 6. Worth 6 credit points. Therefore, 6 x 6 = 36.
Macroeconomics: GP = 6. CP = 6. Therefore, 6 x 6 = 36.
Microeconomics: GP = 5. CP = 6. Therefore, 5 x 6 = 30.
Accounting 1A: GP = 4. CP = 6. Therefore, 4 x 6 = 24.
Accounting 1B: GP = 5. CP = 6. Therefore, 5 x 6 = 30.
Information Systems: GP = 7. CP = 6. Therefore, 7 x 6 = 42.
Commercial Transactions A: GP = 6. CP = 6. Therefore, 6 x 6 = 36.
Commercial Transactions B: GP = 6. CP = 6. Therefore, 6 x 6 = 36.

Total = 36 + 30 + 24 + 30 + 42 + 36 + 36
= 234.
Then divide the result by the total number of credit points, and that is your GPA.
Example:

Total Grade Points = 234 (from previous example)
Total Credit Points = 6 x 8 = 48 (8 subjects worth 6 credit points each)

234 / 48
GPA = 4.875
5. Convert GPA to Selection Rank

You can now convert your GPA to a Selection Rank by Using the conversion table [see "Schedule 3" on page 4 of the attached .pdf file].

You will most likely have completed 1 year (or equivalent) worth of tertiary study (USYD and UNSW do not accept transfers to law if you have completed more than 1 year). Therefore on the conversion table, you goto the column marked 'Attempted 1.0-2.99 FTE' (1 to < 2 years Full Time Equivalence). This is the 3rd column of numbers.

The GPA from the above examples came to 4.875. You can see that from the table, where GPA = 4.80 - 4.89 and 1.0 - 2.99 FTE intersects, the selection rank equates to 88.

6. Your NRSL Index

The final NRSL Index is calculated:

NRSL Index = (UAI + Selection Rank)/2
(the average of UAI and Selection Rank)
Example:
For a UAI of 91 and a selection rank of 88 --

NRSL Index = (91 + 88)/2
= 89.5
Congratulations! You now know how to calculate your GPA, convert it to a selection rank and calculate your NRSL Index. Generally, to be competitive in transferring to UNSW or USYD law you will need a UAI of 96 or above and a GPA of 6 or above.

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Where can I get the NRSL cut-offs?

The Non-Recent School Leaver (NRSL) cut-offs for law vary from year to year. Some universities have proven willing to divulge their cut-offs, others have not. It would be best to phone the university you want to transfer to and ask them. It could be difficult obtaining them because you may have to speak to several people before you find someone with enough knowledge of the system to assist you.

Known NRSL Cut-offs:
Cut-offs will be added as we become aware of them.

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What happens to my HECS debt?

Yet to be added.

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Terminology

Grade Point Average (GPA)
GPA is the weighted average measurement of your university grades. It would be unfair to simply average your grades without giving weight to their credit values (so say you got High Distinction in a 2cp subject, but got a Credit in a 10cp subject, it would be hardly fair to say you got a Distinction average).

Selection Rank
A number obtained by converting your Grade Point Average (GPA) into a rank out of 100, using the attached conversion table.

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Last edited:

MoonlightSonata

Retired
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
3,645
Gender
Female
HSC
N/A
4. Employment & Post-uni

Contents:
What are employers looking for?
Are marks important?
What are different law firms like?
Going to the bar: sooner or later?
What else can I do with a law degree?
How easy is it to find a job?

[Back to Main Contents]
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What are employers looking for?

Yet to be added.

[Back to: Employment & Post-uni | Main Contents]
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Are marks important?

Yet to be added.

[Back to: Employment & Post-uni | Main Contents]
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What are different law firms like?

Yet to be added.

[Back to: Employment & Post-uni | Main Contents]
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Going to the bar: sooner or later?

Yet to be added.

[Back to: Employment & Post-uni | Main Contents]
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What else can I do with a law degree?

Yet to be added.

[Back to: Employment & Post-uni | Main Contents]
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How easy is it to find a job?

Yet to be added.

[Back to: Employment & Post-uni | Main Contents]
 
Last edited:

MoonlightSonata

Retired
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
3,645
Gender
Female
HSC
N/A
5. The Legal Profession

Contents:
What do lawyers do?
What is the difference between a barrister and a solicitor?
What is the workload like as a lawyer?
How much money do lawyers earn?
How do I become a barrister?
When should I become a barrister?
Where can I work - firms, suburban practices?
How do I become a judge?
Is law glamourous?
What about those wigs and robes?
Is it a 'nasty' profession?
Are lawyers jerks?


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What do lawyers do?

Lawyers provide legal advice and represent clients in court, or other forms of dispute resolution.

Their work can involve:

• advising clients
• researching the law
• preparing cases for trial/hearing
• representing clients in court
• negotiating on behalf of their client in legal disputes
• representing their client in commercial matters such as mergers, agreements, etc
• creating, reviewing and explaining legal documents such as contracts, wills, taxation claims, etc.
• working with various law reform bodies to provide reports and advice to the government on how to improve the law

[Back to: The Legal Profession | Main Contents]
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What is the difference between a barrister and a solicitor?

A solicitor provides legal advice and typically does not represent clients in court unless it is a small matter (though they have the right to appear). A barrister represents clients in court, prepares submissions for court, and does detailed case preperation. One cannot be both and each requires specific training. Interestingly, in WA and Victoria the professions of barristers and solicitors are fused.

Barristers work independently in private chambers and wait for solicitors to refer clients to them. Barristers are not permitted to work as part of a company; they rely soley on solicitors to send them briefs. This is why you cannot simply access a barrister, you must be referred to one. There has been talk of changing this rule in recent times however. Most notably in England firms can hire barristers to work for them rather than access them through private chambers. There has also been talk in England of allowing members of the public to deal directly with barristers.

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What is the workload like as a lawyer?

Yet to be added.

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How much money do lawyers earn?

Top Tier Firms

The 2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey lists the salaries for Sydney top tier firms:

Graduate - $63,000 – $70,000. Average: $65,000
1st Year - $72,000 – $80,000. Average: $75,000
2nd Year- $80,000 – $95,000. Average: $87,000
3rd Year - $90,000 – $115,000. Average: $103,000
4th Year - $95,000 – $135,000. Average: $115,000
5th Year - $100,000 – $145,000. Average: $125,000
Senior Associate 1 - $130,000 – $145,000. Average: $135,000
Senior Associate 2 - $140,000 – $165,000. Average: $155,000
Senior Associate 3 - $150,000 – $190,000. Average: $170,000
Senior Associate 4 - $160,000 – $220,000. Average: $180,000
Senior Associate 5-Special Counsel - $180,000 – $295,000. Average: $220,000

Other employment areas, such as Big 4 accounting, investment banking and consulting, would provide similar, if not better salaries.

Mid Tier Firms

2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for Sydney mid tier firms:

Graduate - $50,000 – $66,000. Average: $60,000
1st Year - $59,000 – $78,000. Average: $70,000
2nd Year- $67,000 – $85,000. Average: $78,000
3rd Year - $68,000 – $105,000. Average: $90,000
4th Year - $78,000 – $130,000. Average: $102,000
5th Year - $98,000 – $125,000. Average: $110,000
Senior Associate 1 - $105,000 – $145,000. Average: $125,000
Senior Associate 2 - $114,000 – $150,000. Average: $135,000
Senior Associate 3 - $123,000 – $180,000. Average: $145,000
Senior Associate 4 - $135,000 – $180,000. Average: $150,000
Senior Associate 5-Special Counsel - $145,000 – $255,000. Average: $190,000

Small Firms

2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for Sydney small firms:

Graduate - $45,000 – $65,000. Average: $50,000
1st Year - $50,000 – $70,000. Average: $67,000
2nd Year- $56,000 – $80,000. Average: $67,000
3rd Year - $65,000 – $100,000. Average: $76,000
4th Year - $75,000 – $110,000. Average: $88,000
5th Year - $80,000 – $120,000. Average: $100,000
Senior Associate 1 - $98,000 – $120,000. Average: $108,000
Senior Associate 2+ - $105,000 – $220,000. Average: $155,000

Partners

2007 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for partner renumeration in Sydney (average):

Top Tier Firms - $1,084,000
Mid Tier Firms - $676,500
Small Firms - $442,800


In-house

2007 Mahlab Corporate Survey salaries for Sydney:

1st Year - $60,000 – $85,000. Average: $72,000
2nd Year - $70,000 – $90,000. Average: $85,000
3rd Year - $85,000 – $125,000. Average: $100,000
4th Year - $105,000 – $150,000. Average: $130,000
5th Year - $120,000 – $170,000. Average: $150,000
6th + Years - $130,000 – $220,000. Average: $180,000
DGC - $145,000– $285,000. Average: $235,000
General Counsel - $165,00 – $600,000+. Average: $290,000


Salaries Overseas

Since law is a generalist degree, the opportunity to work overseas in areas of commercial law has grown increasingly popular. Australian law graduates have found themselves competitive hires for law firms in London, Dubai and Hong Kong.

"Although costs of living may be higher, graduates can expect average salaries to be far higher in several overseas destinations. In top law firms in New York they can expect US$125,000 ($170,600). In London it’s around £50,000 ($118,000) for London firms and £80,000 for US-based firms in the UK. In Hong Kong they can expect HK$804,000 ($141,700) from London firms and HK$972,000 ($171,300) from US-based firms. This compares to about $52,000 as a base salary in Australian firms": Lawyer's Weekly.

2006 Mahlab Private Practice Survey salaries for overseas practice:

Hong Kong Salaries:
Newly Qualified - HK$56,000 – HK$68,000
PQE 1 - HK$60,000 – HK$75,000
PQE 2 - HK$65,000 – HK$82,000
PQE 3 - HK$70,000 – HK$88,000
PQE 4 - HK$76,000 – HK$97,000
PQE 5 - HK$80,000 – HK$105,000

London Salaries:
Newly Qualified - £46,000 – £55,000
PQE 1 - £50,000 – £61,000
PQE 2 - £55,000 – £70,000
PQE 3 - £58,000 – £77,000
PQE 4 - £65,000 – £82,000
PQE 5 - £72,000 – £89,000

New York Salaries:
Newly Qualified - US$125,000 – US$144,000
PQE 1 - US$130,000 – US$150,000
PQE 2 - US$135,000 – US$170,000
PQE 3 - US$140,000 – US$185,000
PQE 4 - US$160,000 – US$195,000
PQE 5 - US$175,000 – US$210,000

Singapore Salaries:
Newly Qualified - S$95,000 – S$130,000
PQE 1 - S$120,000 – S$150,000
PQE 2 - S$130,000 – S$170,000
PQE 3 - S$150,000 – S$200,000
PQE 4 - S$155,000 – S$235,000
PQE 5 - S$170,000 – S$250,000


Barristers

Barristers, being a sole traders, often have a greater income range. A newly-admitted barrister, with little experience and briefs, may scarcely break-even for the first few years. On the other hand, experienced senior counsel may charge appearance fees of upwards of seven thousand dollars per day.


Non-corporate and public-sector

Public sector and non-corporate salaries tend to be lower than their corporate counterparts.

For example, a graduate Associate to a Federal judge is paid approximately $48K. Private suburban firms might pay a graduate $35 - 40K.


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How do I become a barrister?

After you have a law degree, to become a barrister in NSW there are three stages. Lawyers must:

1. Pass three exams;
2. Complete and pass a four-week Bar practice course; and
3. Serve 11 months effectively as an "apprentice", with either one or two tutors and conditions on their appearance.

1. The Three Exams
Ethics for barristers, Aspects of evidence, and Practice and procedure for barristers each require a pass mark of 75 per cent. The three exams are held twice a year, over a period of a week. Lawyers can choose to complete the exams over two sittings, but must pass all three within 12 months. Many will have to re-sit at least one of the exams –last year 91 people sat the June exams (16 didn’t turn up) with a pass rate of 84.13 per cent for practice and procedure, 87.1 per cent for evidence and 96.49 per cent for ethics. In November 2004, 92 sat the exams (22 failed to appear) and 64.86 per cent passed practice and procedure, 81.01 per cent passed evidence and 91.43 per cent passed ethics.

To attempt the exams you must pay a $200 non-refundable registration fee for each, and then comes the preparation. Two months prior to the exams, study materials, including a list of recommended reading, case lists, hard to find articles, a sample paper and examination policy and details, are issued on CD-ROM. Ginges says he attended a session for each subject where people from the Bar Association spoke about what was likely to be in the exams, and completed a large amount of reading, including: Uniform Evidence Law by Stephen Odgers SC, the practice and procedure for each of the courts and various cases on ethics.

2. The Bar Practice Course
Once these exams are over, lawyers face a one-month wait before finding out if they have achieved the required pass, and must then decide if they will register for the Bar Practice Course.

The Bar Practice Course must be commenced within nine months of the first examination pass notification. It is held twice a year, in May and October, and runs for a "very intensive" four weeks – 9am to 6pm each day with extensive work overnight. The course costs $3,000.

During this time, participants are not allowed to undertake any other work and it has been said that they should not expect to have time for any sort of social activity. Phil Greenwood SC, a member of the NSW Bar Council and the Bar practice course working party, says the course is designed to expose people coming to the Bar, whether experienced or inexperienced, to the basic skills they will need. The course includes components of advocacy, preparation skills and drafting skills, as well as exposure to a large number of judges and barristers.

Participants are required to "perform" certain tasks throughout the course, such as a cross-examination, leading evidence in chief or making an application to the court. They are then subject to appraisal by the judges and senior barristers, and are sometimes videotaped so the participants can assess their own performances.

The course culminates in an all-day trial, where the students have to run a court hearing in front of a Supreme Court judge.

3. Apprenticeship
On completion of the course, the readers, as they are known for their first 12 months at the Bar, then have to serve the balance of their 'apprenticeship', including 10 days each of civil and criminal reading, which involves attending and observing cases and which must be completed within the first six months. They also select a tutor, who must be a barrister with at least seven years experience, but not a senior counsel. The readers also have to complete some continuing professional development programs.

Expenses
In NSW, the examination fees amount to $600, provided you don’t fail any, in which case you will be required to pay another $200 per exam to repeat them. Professional indemnity insurance alone will set you back $1,200, or thereabouts, and there is a $100 fee for the practising certificate.

It's certainly not worth failing the Bar Practice course at $3,000. It is advised that you are certain you want to take the path to the Bar before you start on it, as the $200 examination fees are non-refundable. The course fee is refundable, minus a $100 administration fee if you withdraw more than 30 days before the course, and applicants providing less notice will pay a $500 administration fee.

Robes and wigs cost $2,500, and cleaning is an added expense – it costs $61 each time your wig gets sent to the cleaners. However, it seems many barristers don't bother with this and seniority can be determined by the colour of a barrister's wig.

Office equipment, computer, printer and basic financial and practice management software will add up to roughly $4,500 and you will need another $4,000 to get your best practice books and online subscriptions. A trolley will cost you $500. Your grand total (and these are just the basic expenses) will be around $16,400.

According to the Bar Association, monthly overheads vary greatly from chambers to chambers. Reading accommodation (including floor fees) can vary from free to $2,500 a month.

Sources
Most of this information was extracted from LawyersWeekly.com.au:
State of the bar
Rising to the bar
How Much for that wig?

Additionally, the NSW Bar Association, the regulatory body for barristers in NSW, has information on their website.

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When should I become a barrister?

Few students leave law school and go straight to the Bar.

Why not? The simple reason is associated with the ways barristers get business. Unlike a solicitor who can advertise and get people off the street, barristers are sole-traders [who work independently in their own room, adjacent to other barrister rooms, collectively called "chambers"] who usually wait and have clients referred to them by solicitors. This means a barrister must have developed a professional reputation to have a steady stream of clients. Thus the usual pathway to the Bar is to spend a few years in a law firm (of solicitors) and, with his/her abilities recognised, head off to the the Bar and to wait for briefs to arrive.

This article may be interesting or relevant on the topic of when to go to the bar:
To Bar or not to Bar

27 March, 2006
Gaurav de Fontgalland, Lawyers Weekly


While some legal practitioners aspire to being called to the Bar, writes Gaurav de Fontgalland , there is unfortunately no easy road map for how to get there.

One of the most significant career choices for a lawyer to make is whether or not they should go to the Bar. Visions of impassioned battles at the Bar table, respectful juniors and rich veins of money fed into multiple bank accounts are compelling draw cards, but the reality of life as a sole practitioner is far from arcadian.

The legal world is not renowned for its friendliness or its accessibility, so the obvious question is, how do lawyers find out what they’re in for? There is no easy way to obtain those essential tips and trade secrets that might guide a lawyer who has decided to stray from the safe path to fortune – if not fame – that is the partnership route.

There are, however, several issues that deserve the attention of the discerning advocate to be.


Thinking outside the firm

Statistics show that for most law students, the first step after university is almost always into a law firm. Whether the firm is small, medium or large, the decision to travel the nine circles of partnership is almost a default one.

Law students are not, however, simply brainwashed into taking that step. Practical or societal reasons are involved as well. For Iona Goodwin, second year lawyer at Harmers Workplace Lawyers, the reasons were clear: "Law firms offer a safe and financially secure environment in which to start your law career. You get to grow your reputation and build your skill with supervision and training."

Another lawyer, who works at a mid-tier property firm, agrees with Goodwin, adding that "most law students don’t know exactly what they want to do straight out of university. Working at a firm allows you a certain degree of flexibility in testing out various practice areas. Of course, if you don’t show some degree of expertise after a year or two you’re in for trouble".

This flexibility, however, even if only for a year or two, may be the most advisable route to a career as a barrister. "Some of us became barristers immediately after completing our degrees," says Justice Marcus Einfeld QC. "I would advise against that now. Spending even just a year making contacts whilst with the prosecution, or at a litigation firm, increases the odds of surviving your first year as a barrister exponentially."

The first advisable step then to becoming a barrister is to explore your affinity with a a range of practice areas, to choose a few, hopefully vaguely related to each other, and then to establish whether you want to be an advocate in the area or not.

Before answering that question, however, you need to ask yourself how do you know you want to be an advocate in the first place?


The trials of being an advocate

The problem for many lawyers in answering that question is that at the tertiary level, (or even, for that matter, at the secondary level), there is very little exposure to what the art of being an advocate involves.

Firstly, the focus is primarily on substantive law. Although the fundamental analysis of substantive law is necessary both for solicitors and barristers, the mingling of oratory, ad libbing and analysis that is the remit of a barrister is something not often discussed at university or school

"Unless you undertake courses or events like the Jessup International Moot, you might easily finish university without ever having experienced advocacy," says a second year private equity lawyer at a top tier firm. "Quite apart from the fact that you won’t have felt what it’s like to get up in front of people, you won't have established whether you’re any good at it."

What this means is that there are fundamental skills and abilities that barristers must possess which are different from those of solicitors.


Skill sets and other requirements

"The ability to read people, in the main, together with a capacity to listen, as well as basic debating skills," says one eminent criminal law QC, when asked whether there are any particular skills that a lawyer wanting to go to the Bar should possess.

So does this mean that a penchant for oratory is a must? What is the difference between a solicitor's submissions in court and those of a barrister? "It is a difference of type, rather than magnitude," says Justice Einfeld. "Barristers and Queens Counsel need to know when to lead." A chief difference, it seems, between barristers and solicitors, lies in the role of the client. Solicitors spend significantly more face time with clients, dealing with the administration and business of the law. Their perspective is geared towards this, especially in smaller firms. Barristers, on the other hand, have a great flexibility of perspective - one day they can be acting for the Commonwealth, the next day against it.

Harry Freedman, partner at boutique law firm Milne, Berry and Berger, says, "Personally, I chose to be a solicitor because I can do whatever a barrister can do. If I want, I can change the structure of my firm to focus on advocacy, or I can travel in a wholly different direction and focus on paper exchanges. Either way, I can engage fee earners who actively work for me. Commercially and practically it's more viable."


Substance versus procedure

"The corollary to all this, of course," Freedman continues, "is that barristers deal intimately with the law itself. They avoid the day to day pettiness of being a solicitor, and get all their information filtered for them so they can focus on a love of the purity of the law."

The skill set required in advocacy is "a very special thing," Freedman suggests. "Solicitors involve themselves with the groundwork of the law; it's really more of a forensic activity that we undertake." This focus on the purity of the law suggests that an intimate knowledge of substantive law is a far more important asset for a barrister than a solicitor.

Finally, in contemplating this major career decision, a solicitor should weigh up whether or not they want to be called to the Bench. A vast majority of judges are barristers. Only very few solicitors become part of the judiciary, a reflection of a difference in mindset.


Administrative aspects

The careers of a solicitor and a barrister also differ in terms of their commercial viability, Freedman says, while according to one commercial and property law barrister-at-law of 30 years, being at the Bar is all about organisation. "You do not have an entire firm to back you up financially," he says. "Although you can share some common resources, such as clerks and photocopiers, the rest of your employment infrastructure is up to you, and you alone."

This has its drawbacks if the barrister is not constantly aware of their case load. "Chambers cost up to $300,000 to buy, which, when you add all the other expenses of life, as well as the fact that you are self-employed, means that you have to cultivate a practice intelligently and carefully," he says.

It is possible, however, when starting out to get a 'reader’s chamber' at large chambers such as Wentworth in Sydney. The advantage of that for a young barrister, says Justice Einfeld, is that "other counsel will always refer extra work to you, providing you are there early in the morning to be available for the opportunity, of course".


The need to be driven

There is very little clear understanding, outside the Bar itself of course, of the steps required to become a barrister. The choice between practising in substantive law or pursuing a career around pure law is critical, as is the need to feel an urge for advocacy and to think carefully about the numbers involved. Other factors, such as networks and the Bench, come into play as well. Ultimately, however, those dreams of impassioned arguments at the Bar table will only come true if you want them to, and don’t mind going it alone.
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Where can I work - firms, suburban practices?

If you graduate and start practice, statistically:
  • 62% will go into private practice (incl. barristers)
  • 20% will go into the public sector (government legal and non-legal, academia)
  • 14% will end up in the private industry (both legal and non-legal) and
  • 4% will be seeking employment.
Of that 62%, most of you will become solicitors, and more than harlf of you will practice in the suburbs (or country) in a single [sole proprietor], or small partnership. The other half will also be in solicitors working in the medium to large commercial firms, usually located in the cities.
  • Suburban and Country Solicitors - Dealing with people and their immediate problems. This involves a broad cross-section of work: criminal, family, probate and commercial. If close to local court, criminal work will predominate. Women in private practice tend to get more family law work than their male counterparts. In country towns, solicitors will tend to do a lot of community work. They can be well known in the community and respected.
  • Larger Commercial Firms - Larger city firms, more commercial practice, larger areas of specialisation. work may be coupled with other areas such as: biotechnology, industrial, intellectual property, construction, taxation etc. A graduate who enters a large firm will expect a rotation process of 3-4 practice areas over a 1-2 year period so they can experience the various areas of practice. after that, there may be specialisation in a single area. there are accredited areas of specialisation, such as advocacy, business law, childrens law, commercial litigation, criminal law, family law, immigration law, mediation and alternative dispute resolution, local government and planning law, personal injury law, property law, wills and estates law.
  • Government Service - can work as a solicitor for all areas of government eg. employment, commercial leasing, construction. other specialisations include parliamentary counsel's office (drafting of legislation), office of the director of public prosecution and litigation.
  • In-house/Corporate Counsel - Larger corporations keep their own legal teams. Over the years there has been downsizing in this area in favour of outsourcing, but there seems to be a trend of reversal.
  • Solicitors or Barristers - The profession is generally divided into two tiers - solicitors or barristers.
Thanks to Frigid for providing the content of this section.

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How do I become a judge?

Generally the government selects judges when needed from a pool of top barristers. Some academics and professionals have become judges, although this is rare. Typically selection is drawn purely from the top performers at the bar. It takes many years of successful experience practicing law before one will be offered a place as a judge. Judges tend to be appointed in their 50s.

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Is law glamourous?

This section is still under construction.

Law student Santaslayer says:
Hell no. You end up working like a dog. I can't say that's glammy in any way whatsoever. Interesting work, yes. Glamorous? Not really. Since you can't really be 'rich' if you work in Australia. Maybe if you work in HK or America.

I do enjoy the false perception though.
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What about those wigs and robes?

Wigs confer dignity and solemnity on court proceedings. They also provide anonymity, not in the sense of providing a disguise or camouflage, but a distancing from personal involvement. The wig is an emblem of privilege, and young barristers are keen to retain them, senior members of the bar less so.

Surprisingly, it is the clients and other regular court users who are most enthusiastic about retention. They are hot in the summer and if the barrister has not got a good head of hair they can be itchy. Barristers remove them at every opportunity, they are not comfortable.

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Is it a 'nasty' profession?

Yet to be added.

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Are lawyers jerks?

Yet to be added.

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