The Melbourne Model: Thoughts and Opinions (2 Viewers)

[trishan]

Melbourne University's brave and bold $185 million overhaul of its academic structure, announced yesterday by its vice-chancellor, Glyn Davis, is the most comprehensive and radical transformation of its kind in the institution's 154 years, let alone Australia's tertiary-education system. In moving away from the English-type degree course to embrace the two-tier teaching structure favoured in the United States, the Melbourne Model (as it is called) turns history and tradition on its head, as well as redefining student requirements and capabilities from 2008 on.

The Age, 17th April 2007

I finished VCE in 2006 and I am currently part of the last cohort of undergradute law students at the University of Melbourne. From next year those who want to do law at Melbourne University will have to do one of a handful of general courses before applying for post-graduate entry. Some may be determined to complete an undergraduate law degree and will have to do so at Monash's Clayton campus. My question to those of you who are going to graduate at the end of this year and onwards is what difference the Melbourne Model has had on your choice of university.

Will you go to Melbourne for its prestige? For the $2000 payout for those who achieve over 98? For the convenient location? For the internationality of your degree (you can study overseas after completing one of the general courses on offer)? Do you praise Melbourne for its iniative?

OR

Do you go to Monash because it offers law, engineering and medicine at an undergraduate level? Will you got Monash as it will shorten the average length of your degree?

How many of you would have gone to Melbourne but because of the model are now seriously considering Monash or one of the other smaller universities?

 

[trishan]

They have quite a generous scholarship program. I only wish they had a similar thing last year...$2000 sounds good to me.

In a bid to counter claims of elitism, the university has unveiled a multitiered, $100 million scholarship scheme. Part of it involves expanding to graduate level the university's existing "Access program", in which 20 per cent of HECS places are reserved for students from disadvantaged backgrounds or schools under-represented at Melbourne University. This, of course, is welcome.

But there is also a range of other initiatives. One scholarship stream offers year 12 students a free degree (no HECS or full fees) as well as an annual allowance of $5000 - provided they get a university entry score of 99.9.

Another gives students a $2500 sweetener to enrol at Melbourne instead of at other universities - if they achieve an ENTER of 98 or more.

The centrepiece of the scholarship scheme is a program named after Melbourne's former vice-chancellor, Kwong Lee Dow, in which principals from every Victorian school are asked to nominate up to five students who demonstrate "significant academic and leadership potential". From this list, university chiefs will choose up to 700 students a year who are worthy of scholarships - guaranteed HECS places in an undergraduate course, $2500 each to study abroad as part of their degree, and a further $2500 allowance for students living outside of Melbourne.

The university aims to offer one scholarship to every secondary school in Victoria.

"We recognise that you have to have different pathways in for the best and brightest, because people don't start with the same opportunities," Davis said recently.

The catch? Students shortlisted for a Kwong Lee Dow scholarship must achieve an entry score of at least 95 (or 90 if they come from a school that is under-represented at the university) to even get a look-in. It's a system that appears to be underpinned by selective entry - creaming off the best and brightest - rather than broader access.

Source: http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/reinforcing-an-elite-attitude/2007/04/30/1177788047336.html

 

[Capricious]

I was dead set on Melbourne, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to Monash. I'd rather be guaranteed of a law and arts degree after five years, then do a general course and have to compete with other graduates for a coveted law spot and you have to do the LSATs.

 

[Eriny]

Pretty much all major uni's offer opportunities to study abroad, goosefraba. Although I must admit, Melbourne's program seems pretty good.

As a prospective arts student, the Melbourne Model doesn't really impact on me much, except the ENTER score I'm going to need will be higher than in previous years I should think. Also, I read that Melbourne uni aims to have one student on a scholarship per high school, but in order to get a scholarship you still need to get a 95 (or a 90 for underrepresented schools) - which would not happen for some schools. I suppose that might actually make it easier for me to get a scholarship to go to Melbourne than what it would have been in previous years but I hardly know anything about this progam and I daresay that my school doesn't really either.

I think what Melbourne is doing to their law degrees is insane though. A kid who graduates this year and really really wants to be a lawyer would want to get straight into the degree. Especially considering that if they go to Melbourne, their future is extremely uncertain, there is a very limited amount of graduate law places and so they might not able to even get into the law course after their undergrad degree. This essentially means that they just wasted 3 years of their lives doing an undergrad degree which they didn't even really want for no reason. Oh, and it also increases the amount they spend on uni which isn't the most worrying thing in the world but it does suggest that Melbourne is in it for the profits (not that that should surprise anyone).

So from my perspective, the Melbourne Model is probably good in terms of scholarship availability as long as I can get an ENTER of over 90 (I go to an "underrepresented" school) and get the highest ENTER of all the people from my school that want to go to Melbourne. From other perspectives, the Melbourne Model is a bit of a mixed bag.

 

[gulamali]

i can apply for underprivliged school, or whatever its called as well....does this in anyway affect commerce, because i dont understand, i dont exactly understand postgraduate, and undergraduate, call me stupid...but yeahh..

 

[AppleXY]

I'm definately going to UoM, and i'm pretty confident of getting 98. lol, yes, I know, I come from an under-repesentated school (Mordialloc College), but who's going to stop me? Not those private school students. No way. Not to mention, our dux av in our school is around ~98.6. So yeah.

and about the Melbourne Model, in my humble opinion, I think its fantastic program which will earn UoM even greater prestige around the world. The $2,500 scholarship for students who get 98+ for their ENTER regardless of their school is in one word, wow. Also, the skills equipped from a Melbourne grad would be second-to-none.

I just desperately I hope I get in.

 

[jb_nc]

and about the Melbourne Model, in my humble opinion, I think its fantastic program which will earn UoM even greater prestige around the world. The $2,500 scholarship for students who get 98+ for their ENTER regardless of their school is in one word, wow. Also, the skills equipped from a Melbourne grad would be second-to-none.

Yes, they would be second to Oxford or Cambridge or Cornell or Stanford or many other universities.

Australian universities have no "prestige", even in Australia, let alone the rest of the world. An employer is not going to care there are two candidates and one went to Melbourne and the other James Cook University if the JCU student was awarded the university medal and the UM student was average; they're going to hire the better student depending on how they interview.

Overseas it's very different, qualifications from an Ivy league or Oxbridge will land you a job even if you are an average student (my two cousins read law and mathematics at Oxford and Cambridge respectively - they said the prestige in Britain was very different to say USYD or UoM here). Up until the 1970's 'proper' Australian families sent their children away to boarding school in England and then onto Oxford or Cambridge to university to get a "real" education.

I'd choose to go to Melbourne because it has a better social life/course i want or whatever rather than based on "prestige" that doesn't exist.

 

[randomnezz]

UoM is in a very convinent location for me but i don't really know, i'm sure that the change doesn't affect me much...trying for biomed but i might change my mind and i don't think i can defer(?)
and also is it a post-grad entry after the general course? is it would be full fees or still under the hec scheme?

 

[gulamali]

Yes, they would be second to Oxford or Cambridge or Cornell or Stanford or many other universities.

Australian universities have no "prestige", even in Australia, let alone the rest of the world. An employer is not going to care there are two candidates and one went to Melbourne and the other James Cook University if the JCU student was awarded the university medal and the UM student was average; they're going to hire the better student depending on how they interview.

Overseas it's very different, qualifications from an Ivy league or Oxbridge will land you a job even if you are an average student (my two cousins read law and mathematics at Oxford and Cambridge respectively - they said the prestige in Britain was very different to say USYD or UoM here). Up until the 1970's 'proper' Australian families sent their children away to boarding school in England and then onto Oxford or Cambridge to university to get a "real" education.

I'd choose to go to Melbourne because it has a better social life/course i want or whatever rather than based on "prestige" that doesn't exist.

well id disagree with you, when you said that Australian unis have no 'prestige' yes they may not compare to your oxfords, and the likes...however not many unis do. As for an employer looking at the interview and that alone, they actually do look at the uni you came from, as that is a measure of your intelligence in some respects. I wish to do an accounting cadetship, and although the firms won't tell you upfront that they only recruit from Uni of Melb, they do i know someone who works for one of these big acc firms, and she told us...that as they may not publicise it....its true, they only recruit from the best unis (melb, and i think monash)

 

[gulamali]

and one more thing if australian unis, didnt have any prestigue, do you honestly think, we'd have sooo many overseas students seeking tertiary education in australia??

 

[Eriny]

But do we have to apply for this scholarship? and if so, where/how?

I'm also looking to do arts, then a degree in education.

I think the principals' of each high school nominates five students who they think would be good candidates, or something like that. I don't really know how it works, you'd have to call up or email someone at UoM.

 

[jb_nc]

well id disagree with you, when you said that Australian unis have no 'prestige' yes they may not compare to your oxfords, and the likes...however not many unis do. As for an employer looking at the interview and that alone, they actually do look at the uni you came from, as that is a measure of your intelligence in some respects. I wish to do an accounting cadetship, and although the firms won't tell you upfront that they only recruit from Uni of Melb, they do i know someone who works for one of these big acc firms, and she told us...that as they may not publicise it....its true, they only recruit from the best unis (melb, and i think monash)

Hey, why I don't know this isn't true, it is true, a friend told me. It's true. Really true. Almost too true for my own good. That true. Did I tell you how TRUE it was? If you're going to choose something to point out the "prestige" of Australian universities don't pick fucking commerce, the degree is vanilla as it comes. A monkey could be an accountant.

and one more thing if australian unis, didnt have any prestigue, do you honestly think, we'd have sooo many overseas students seeking tertiary education in australia??

Look at me ma, I'm a cultured chap with my fancy overseas degree. Plus it's piss easy to get into Australian unis from overseas when you have the money.

Why are there so many overseas students in TAFE and private colleges? Let me tell you: permanent residency. I doubt they pick TAFE or a hairdressing college for the "prestige".

 

[gulamali]

Hey, why I don't know this isn't true, it is true, a friend told me. It's true. Really true. Almost too true for my own good. That true. Did I tell you how TRUE it was? If you're going to pick something on "prestige" don't pick fucking commerce, the degree is vanilla as it comes. I read in either The Australian or the SMH, accounting firms have stopped hiring Commerce graduates because it turned out it was just people who did Accounting for permanent residency.



Look at me ma, I'm a cultured chap with my fancy overseas degree. Plus it's piss easy to get into Australian unis from overseas when you have the money.

Why are there so many overseas students in TAFE and private colleges? Let me tell you: permanent residency. I doubt they pick TAFE or a hairdressing college for the "prestige".

yeah i aint a doing accounting for permanent residency mate, im doing it because i like it,...you tell me why the fk would i go do a science for e.g when i utterly dislike the field....?? sounds stupid to me =]

plus did you know, there is high demand for accounting? skills shortage...is what were experienceing, and the accounting profession is apart of that skills shortage.

 

[jb_nc]

yeah i aint a doing accounting for permanent residency mate, im doing it because i like it,...you tell me why the fk would i go do a science for e.g when i utterly dislike the field....?? sounds stupid to me =]

???????

plus did you know, there is high demand for accounting? skills shortage...is what were experienceing, and the accounting profession is apart of that skills shortage.

What does this have to do with anything?

 

[AppleXY]

What the fuck man. What the fuck. Don't bag a profession just because you hate it, fuck. And why the fk do people think Accounting is an easier job!?! Its more than just Debits and Credits, jeez, if that was accounting we would all be in TAFE and be bookkeepers. Accountants are vital for any business to succeed. It is vital business information and has power to influence many signficant business decisions. An accountant has to incorporate people skills, decision making skills and problem solving skills to give the best for its clients (if it is an external prof. services firm such KPMG). And oh yeah, Audit Partners get $700,000. I don't think a firm will give monkeys $700,000. Commerce is important to every day society. Money would even exist if it wasn't! (Economics).

Stop bagging commerce, and in particular, accounting.

 

[asa.hoshi]

yes commerce is important for today's society. its all about money money money these days. although im not studying any commerce as part of my VCE course, I intend to study commerce at Melb Uni if i can get into it.

 

[jb_nc]

What the fuck man. What the fuck. Don't bag a profession just because you hate it, fuck. And why the fk do people think Accounting is an easier job!?! Its more than just Debits and Credits, jeez, if that was accounting we would all be in TAFE and be bookkeepers. Accountants are vital for any business to succeed. It is vital business information and has power to influence many signficant business decisions. An accountant has to incorporate people skills, decision making skills and problem solving skills to give the best for its clients (if it is an external prof. services firm such KPMG). And oh yeah, Audit Partners get $700,000. I don't think a firm will give monkeys $700,000. Commerce is important to every day society. Money would even exist if it wasn't! (Economics).

Stop bagging commerce, and in particular, accounting.

Accountant this... Accountant that. I didn't say it wasn't necessary I said do not compare universities on Commerce degrees because they are vanilla. B Comm is also an entirely Anglosphere, and nearly all Australian, degree.

Wow, people skills, decision making skills and problem solving skills? How on earth do they do all three... I think I know where they are hiding all the geniuses in the world now. Don't forget to carry the one.

 

[Eriny]

lol, almost any job could probably done by a monkey or a robot at most.

 

[Deffy]

Don't feed the troll now. :rofl:
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[Strawbaby]

Melbourne model? For the most extreme opposition, ask the creative arts students. Our reaction was so bad that a couple of days ago every CA student got sent a letter via email reassuring us that we'd be all right. Our degree is getting scrapped entirely after this year, which means very bad things for those of us doing the three year course over a longer period of time (four years for me, concurrent with law.)