The place of private healthcare (2 Viewers)

[Fish Tank]

Q. What eventually happens when the government involves itself in enough businesses (let's face it, a private hospital is a business)?
A. The economy fails, people live on the street and die from the flu and jumping off skyscrapers.

Let the Catholic hospital be. This way people of the Catholic faith can lay in a hospital with similar moral practices to them, and without the threat of a doctor pulling the life support plug on them. In the end this relieves pressure on the public health system (ahahahhahahahaha what a silly term ), more beds are available in emergencies and doctors can focus on fewer patients and provide a higher quality of care.

 

[Iron]

 

[Cyrus the Great]

shit thread.

pretty much catholics vs the rest

 

[Fish Tank]

shit thread.

pretty much catholics vs the rest

Quit whingeing and contribute?

 

[Lentern]

I currently work as an insulation installer. For the past six months, the government has been offering a $1600 subsidy (which was a total rort tbh), which means free ceiling insulation for most houses. The government promised this scheme would go for 3 years, many many people have invested tens of thousands into new insulation businesses.

Last week, on coalition demands, the government suddenly said "fuck the hundreds of businesses that will fail, subsidy is being reduced to $1200, 14 days from now, no notice at all".

The company I work for has paid for a new, complete container, and no one is going to want insulation when it's not free. Many people will go out of business.

Trust me I fully sympathize with your plight, most irresponsible of the government. You don't just slash it willy nilly you work it down, 1580, 1560, 1540, aim to get it down to say 1100 by 2013. This is the kind of issue where the high court needs to be able to say "sorry no you made an undertaking to these people, they've invested under the assumption that undertaking will be met, you have to ensure they're able to cope if you find yourself no longer inclined to meet that undertaking.

 

[Raaaaaachel]

I currently work as an insulation installer. For the past six months, the government has been offering a $1600 subsidy (which was a total rort tbh), which means free ceiling insulation for most houses. The government promised this scheme would go for 3 years, many many people have invested tens of thousands into new insulation businesses.

Last week, on coalition demands, the government suddenly said "fuck the hundreds of businesses that will fail, subsidy is being reduced to $1200, 14 days from now, no notice at all".

The company I work for has paid for a new, complete container, and no one is going to want insulation when it's not free. Many people will go out of business.

Governments always shaft people and ruin lives with legislative changes. They shouldn't publicly fund hospitals, insulation in the first place, this is the correction we had to have.

That's what happens when you get into bed with the government, you get fucked.

If you are basing your business on government subsidies you have to accept the risk that the subsidies will not last forever.

The government did not enter into a contract with these businesses it simply made statements about its intentions which basic research would have revealed they were entitled to change at any time, the statements were in no way binding.

It is better that these businesses are liquidated sooner rather than later, rather than being funded by more stolen money.

 

[Tangent]

I think that the government is acting way out of place. Okay, they dont offer abortions and euthanasia etc, (except under excerptional circumstances), but as said before there is a public hospital that does offer those serivces. Considering the public heath system is going down the drain, the government is nuts to waste money on this venture, when there is nothing wrong.

 

[Generator]

The ACT government has publicly claimed that the purchase will properly integrate Calvary hospital into the wider health system, allowing better (and streamlined) planning of health resources across the ACT. To my mind that is a reasonable argument.

As for a Catholic institution having a greater regard for life than than an institution owned and operated by the Territory... Do you truly believe this to be the case, Iron? It's quite an assertion that would be hotly contested by many.

There's also the question of the hospice. Unlike the proposed purchase of Calvary, the proposed sale of the hospice (currently public) has generated a significant amount of negative criticism. Truth be told, given my age and the fact that I have no older relatives in Canberra, I have given little thought to this side issue.

As far as I'm concerned the only real health issue in the ACT is that of access to GPs. Does anyone know where they are hiding?

Trust me I fully sympathize with your plight, most irresponsible of the government. You don't just slash it willy nilly you work it down, 1580, 1560, 1540, aim to get it down to say 1100 by 2013. This is the kind of issue where the high court needs to be able to say "sorry no you made an undertaking to these people, they've invested under the assumption that undertaking will be met, you have to ensure they're able to cope if you find yourself no longer inclined to meet that undertaking.

The Government has no obligation to continue to provide temporary support for an artificial industry. It is a shame that some will suffer a financial loss, but mining a stimulatory (and contentious) Government scheme for long term profit isn't the best of ideas for a small business seeking a sustainable future.

Much like solar panels, there is a strong argument to support an insulation subsidy scheme for those at the lower end of the earnings scale. There's also an argument to provide a scheme for for residential property investors, particularly those renting to people at the lower end of the earnings scale, but broadscale, long term support for an industry that was highly likely to boom given the advent of significant climate change? No, not really.

 

[Iron]

The ACT government has publicly claimed that the purchase will properly integrate Calvary hospital into the wider health system, allowing better (and streamlined) planning of health resources across the ACT. To my mind that is a reasonable argument.

As for a Catholic institution having a greater regard for life than than an institution owned and operated by the Territory... Do you truly believe this to be the case, Iron? It's quite an assertion that would be hotly contested by many.

.

Obviously I believe this because of their plans re abortion and designs re euthanasia. You did not address this, but it's the core of Catholic concern and, we believe, the government's motivation. 'Streamlined resources' may appeal to a pinko commie like you, but the fact is that they cant point to any substantial failings of Calvary to provide excellent healthcare. There is also significant doubt as to whether this evil government has the administrative capacity to fully run two hospitals. It's maddness, Alice in wonderland stuff

Catholics conduct healthcare with the seriousness of a God-ordained mission. I dont know the motives of a public hospital and I dont care to find out (tho they surely only stand for the cold concept of social control, while the Drs and nurses are there for $$$, prestigue etc idk). Clearly, I know which hospital i'd like to place my lyyyfe in the hands of

+OMG! generat0r:O
(pls tell kwayera to resign m8)

 

[katie tully]

The Church is the richest organisation in the world, or one of the. The fact that the government funds hospitals with a Catholic ethos sickens me more than anything.

If Calvary can't survive without government funding,
a. It's obviously not viable to begin with
b. Why don't they call upon the Church to prop them up with some of their unlimited funds
c. It's a private hospital - you can't take government funds and refuse to accept or adhere to conditions set by the cash cow.
d. Who gives a shit.

 

[katie tully]

No the government has a clear agenda to see the hospital taken out of Catholic hands - whatever the cost. They will withdraw their funding (which is no where near 50% afaik) and the Catholics will be forced to hand it over to them.

But my argument isnt just for the choice of 'consumers'. It's also for the Drs and nurses that run the place. Calvary is Catholic - it employs Catholic professionals. These professionals are good people of conscience who will never consent to something like abortion without bloody good reason. Where are they to go? Not Canberra, that's for sure. The bulk would rather skip town. And still the government is unmoved. With all their knowledge and experience, they should not be forced by a political organisation to engage in what the world's largest religious institution describes as murder - let alone be employed by a public hospital that sees no problem here whatsoever

Bullshit.

It's quite clear why the government has taken away funds from this hospital, and I would put money on it really not having anything to do with it being a private Catholic hospital. Given the amount of Catholic cronies in government, I don't think this is a Catholic issue.

Hospitals are a business. The government is obviously injecting funds into this hospital to keep it afloat, if Calvary was financially viable, it wouldn't depend on government assistance. What happens in a public hospital is that the government funds a certain amount, but hospitals have to generate a certain amount of income to cover the short fall. This includes setting up incentives for people to use their private health insurance instead of opting to go in as a public patient. Instead of it costing the hospital $1500 a day to keep the patient, with a private patient the hospital actually generates a profit.

Stop being a weirdo. This is not about the government trying to squeeze the Catholic out of a Catholic hospital, it hasn't been made public but my bet is that Calvary isn't viable and that the government is sick of injecting money into a black hole.

 

[katie tully]

Also yeah if it's viable, as you say, selling the hospital to a private firm would be an excellent idea. It also means that the government is no longer responsible for it.

 

[Iron]

Calvary is viable. The government would save a whole truckload of cash if it let them be. But lol Canberra Labor is the biggest hotbed of socialistic godless homo pomos in the country. Their motivation is ideological.

 

[Planck]

where da wite wimmen @

 

[katie tully]

Okay if it's viable, why does it require government funds?

And secondly, I flat out refuse to believe that this is an abortion/euthanasia issue
Plenty of hospitals don't perform abortions on demand - they don't lose funding over this.

 

[Iron]

Okay if it's viable, why does it require government funds?

And secondly, I flat out refuse to believe that this is an abortion/euthanasia issue
Plenty of hospitals don't perform abortions on demand - they don't lose funding over this.

Believe it believing betsy.

I believe that there was a short time last year in which the mercy sisters thought that a lack of funds would mean that the government subsidy would have to reach >50% and .: the government would own it. But now they have the money to retain a majority share etc. However the government's like oooh no u don, we'll stop all our funding and force you to sell up now. Mercy sisters are like umm why? and theyre all like ooo well er streamlined services greater bugetry affordability in the g20 region working families coff (abortion)

For me, it's no different to a private school that gets some government grants

 

[loquasagacious]

For me, it's no different to a private school that gets some government grants

You have a point. But I would remind you that private schools are still required to follow a Government curriculum - including for example teaching safe sex and evolution.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Accept Government money and accept Government regulation, two sides of the same coin.

 

[Iron]

Hm indeed. As in, to what extent are private schools actually private.

I have no problem accepting that with government funding comes an expectation of certain public interest objectives - indeed, i've been known to broadly argue this even when the funding is absent. But surely there's valid objection when these government objectives are overtly political and not part of some objective standards like scientific and medical evidence, or even financial advice given to the government.

I think that the core of this is the state doing battle with God for supremacy over the lives of people. Should something as fleeting and fickle as a government be seen as the sole decider of goodness and morality in society - based only on the fact that it has acquired power? See Hitler. Years of bliss in the safe moral hands of Bush-Howard has blinded me to this question...

Perhaps this is just an inevitable result of the dying Church. Team freedom may like to crow about all their individual rights and ability to do whatever they like, but the reality is that theyre deferring to whoever holds power to make up their minds in subtle and alarming ways. The Church is the only consistent voice for the dignity and true freedom of the individual. If it is muscled out of the public sphere in dirty ways like this, the more vulnerable and exploited people will become.
And they wont even realise it.
1987

 

[loquasagacious]

I have no problem accepting that with government funding comes an expectation of certain public interest objectives - indeed, i've been known to broadly argue this even when the funding is absent. But surely there's valid objection when these government objectives are overtly political and not part of some objective standards like scientific and medical evidence, or even financial advice given to the government.

I think it is conceivable, indeed I've been known to broadly argue that, the availability of abortions and euthanasia is in the public interest.

Team freedom may like to crow about all their individual rights and ability to do whatever they like, but the reality is that theyre deferring to whoever holds power to make up their minds in subtle and alarming ways.

I understand Team Freedom as being fairly explicit about 'those in power' (or other people generally) making decisions on behalf of individuals...

1983

eft?

 

[katie tully]

Hm indeed. As in, to what extent are private schools actually private.

I have no problem accepting that with government funding comes an expectation of certain public interest objectives - indeed, i've been known to broadly argue this even when the funding is absent. But surely there's valid objection when these government objectives are overtly political and not part of some objective standards like scientific and medical evidence, or even financial advice given to the government.

I think that the core of this is the state doing battle with God for supremacy over the lives of people. Should something as fleeting and fickle as a government be seen as the sole decider of goodness and morality in society - based only on the fact that it has acquired power? See Hitler. Years of bliss in the safe moral hands of Bush-Howard has blinded me to this question...

Perhaps this is just an inevitable result of the dying Church. Team freedom may like to crow about all their individual rights and ability to do whatever they like, but the reality is that theyre deferring to whoever holds power to make up their minds in subtle and alarming ways. The Church is the only consistent voice for the dignity and true freedom of the individual. If it is muscled out of the public sphere in dirty ways like this, the more vulnerable and exploited people will become.
And they wont even realise it.
1987

You have a tendency to make quite valid points and to appear almost coherent and reasonable.

And then you promote the Church 100 times in one post and ruin it for me.

eam freedom may like to crow about all their individual rights and ability to do whatever they like, but the reality is that theyre deferring to whoever holds power to make up their minds in subtle and alarming ways.

I think Team Freedom would like nothing more than for those who hold power to fuck off?