The Problem of Pamela Bradley (1 Viewer)

[rhapsody11]

considering I don't agree with classics_chic in entirety,.

Hmmm... If I wanted to prove that I wasn't using two accounts, what would I do... I wonder if I would disagree with myself, like sugar_plum and invoiced did.

I don't know how you can say that I am this person.

Hmmm... It's too convenient.

Would you mind having a teleconference with me, then?

Then I will admit I'm wrong and that you're king/queen.

 

[goldendawn]

Pamela Bradley might not be officially counted as an 'historian', but I believe that her work is nonetheless useful and even insightful. An academic title DOES NOT ensure reliability, nor is it strictly a measure of worth. If Bradley's work is useful, then it is valid. Bradley makes history accessible; and I don't think that history loses in the process, either. Some people insist on playing academic kudos games. I respect Bradley for simply writing what she knows and loves.

 

[rhapsody11]

Pamela Bradley might not be officially counted as an 'historian',

I would. You're moving towards the snobby attitude of only certain people getting the title 'historian'.

Since you're claiming absolution, would you care to define when one becomes an historian?

Beth Thompson at Macq only just got her PhD this year, but she's regarded as one of the most important philological Egyptologists.

Who would be a better historian of Marcus' life than Marcus himself?

but I believe that her work is nonetheless useful and even insightful. An academic title DOES NOT ensure reliability, nor is it strictly a measure of worth. If Bradley's work is useful, then it is valid.

Exactly.

Bradley makes history accessible; and I don't think that history loses in the process, either. Some people insist on playing academic kudos games.

Even more exactly.

This year, *so* many people lost marks in the Egypt section because of making up quotations and paraphrases. We don't expect students to have read all the old, important texts. Read Bradley, maybe read Kemp, look where they reference, maybe get those books and take notes from the reference points. That's it.

 

[a8o]

I would. You're moving towards the snobby attitude of only certain people getting the title 'historian'.

Since you're claiming absolution, would you care to define when one becomes an historian?

Beth Thompson at Macq only just got her PhD this year, but she's regarded as one of the most important philological Egyptologists.

Who would be a better historian of Marcus' life than Marcus himself?



Exactly.



Even more exactly.

This year, *so* many people lost marks in the Egypt section because of making up quotations and paraphrases. We don't expect students to have read all the old, important texts. Read Bradley, maybe read Kemp, look where they reference, maybe get those books and take notes from the reference points. That's it.

Or, read Scullard on the late Roman Republic - that's real history.

Or cite the contributing author in the Oxford Classical Distionary That would be my advice to any 06 Ancient History student.

 

[goldendawn]

I'm not claiming absolution - I'm simply stating that in that sometimes unfortunate institution of academia, in the titulary IT defines, Bradley may not necessarily be counted as an 'historian'. I do not support academic titulary, because such a definition of an historian is elitist at worst, and slippery at best.

 

[rhapsody11]

Or, read Scullard on the late Roman Republic - that's real history.

Yeah, everyone else sucks so hard that their versions of history pale in comparison. .

Or cite the contributing author in the Oxford Classical Distionary That would be my advice to any 06 Ancient History student.

Yeah, then I'd give you 8/25, as OCD entries would only fill in the blanks about 'Describe' questions.

I'm not claiming absolution - I'm simply stating that in that sometimes unfortunate institution of academia, in the titulary IT defines,

Are you suggesting that there are two different spheres of history, one inside and one outside of academia? Because all I know is that Bradley is accessible history.

If you mean something like 'more formal study of history', say above a highschool level, I would agree with you. Bradley is for people who have no time to read more than a summary.

Although, I will point out that tonight, I couldn't remember something about Marius. I was looking all through Plutarch and Sallust, and I just could not find this line I remembered.

I look around at all my books, and there is Bradley's Ancient Rome: Using Evidence. What do you know, someone who isn't a historian managed to help me find the reference which was in Appian. Not only that, she discussed how Appian's account of a part of Marius' life is different to Sallust's. I didn't even pick up on that, as it'd just slipped by.

I'm at a tertiary level, so I would usually say that whilst Bradley isn't an appropriate source for high-level education, she is very useful.

 

[angelduck]

Honestly, none of you pay that much attention in class, really, saying that some historians are better than others. Seriously, what are you? When you get a PhD that entitles you to judge a historians value and advise others on the ability to trust their work, then i would lik to hear your opinion. Until then, Bradley CAN be used, although preferably in relation to other sources. No-ones opinion on the past is better than anothers, and you shouldnt discriminate against someone just because of the university they went to. That is what we educated people call DISCRIMINATION - maybe you shuld look up that in ur dictionary

 

[goldendawn]

Yeah, everyone else sucks so hard that their versions of history pale in comparison. .



Yeah, then I'd give you 8/25, as OCD entries would only fill in the blanks about 'Describe' questions.



Are you suggesting that there are two different spheres of history, one inside and one outside of academia? Because all I know is that Bradley is accessible history.

If you mean something like 'more formal study of history', say above a highschool level, I would agree with you. Bradley is for people who have no time to read more than a summary.

Although, I will point out that tonight, I couldn't remember something about Marius. I was looking all through Plutarch and Sallust, and I just could not find this line I remembered.

I look around at all my books, and there is Bradley's Ancient Rome: Using Evidence. What do you know, someone who isn't a historian managed to help me find the reference which was in Appian. Not only that, she discussed how Appian's account of a part of Marius' life is different to Sallust's. I didn't even pick up on that, as it'd just slipped by.

I'm at a tertiary level, so I would usually say that whilst Bradley isn't an appropriate source for high-level education, she is very useful.

Let's get one thing straight - I never said I don't believe her to be an historian. This has become an argument of definition, which has the potential to be totally useless. I believe we're on the same track, and I'd like to clarify what I mean. For me, an historian is simply any person who writes about the past, or about the present for posterity. Academia however, is a system built upon it's own specific set of 'standards of educational accomplishment', and upon the recognition of that 'accomplishment'. The academic world has its own specific requisites for defining an 'historian'. Being recognised as an 'historian' within the academic world relies on specific recognised 'achievements' and 'merits' within the academic system. I don't necessarily agree with this system.

 

[silvermoon]

I don't see how any person in this forum has the authority to judge historical sources as inadequate or innappriate to quote. And, if any of you have done the Extension History course, you will understand that it is no-one's right to judge a person an historian or otherwise. Pamela Bradley, whether a textbook writer or not, is a legitimate historian who may be quoted by a student - she is not merely an author, as someone writing about issues concerning the nature and constructs of history is undoubtedly an historian, whether she brings new insight or not. The Board of Studies, likewise, do not have any historical authority to judge the historical credibility of a scholar like Bradley. Rather, they are merely there to judge the level of analytical sophistication and historical knowledge applied within scripts - that is all.

this thread didn't actually start (if i remember correctly) as an attack on bradley re: her validity as an 'historian,' rather it was meant to focus on whether people thought her texts were good works to quote in an essay for HSC ancient history or whether people should stick to primary sources. let's get a bit of focus back in the thread people - obviously we're all bored peeps who are just arguing for the sake of it.

 

[silvermoon]

Honestly, none of you pay that much attention in class, really, saying that some historians are better than others. Seriously, what are you? When you get a PhD that entitles you to judge a historians value and advise others on the ability to trust their work, then i would lik to hear your opinion. Until then, Bradley CAN be used, although preferably in relation to other sources. No-ones opinion on the past is better than anothers, and you shouldnt discriminate against someone just because of the university they went to. That is what we educated people call DISCRIMINATION - maybe you shuld look up that in ur dictionary

lol....angie....i seem to remember you leading the pack in the 'say no to bradley' camp how times change

 

[rhapsody11]

lol....angie....i seem to remember you leading the pack in the 'say no to bradley' camp how times change

I really don't think it's a matter for 'camps' when an HSC marker has asked his marker peers and came back with a definite answer.

 

[angelduck]

i really think that was meant for me - note the use of "Angie" a colloquial term/nickname in reference to me, not for you to compliment on..

Re: Moonie - "Ner"

 

[rhapsody11]

i really think that was meant for me - note the use of "Angie" a colloquial term/nickname in reference to me, not for you to compliment on..

Re: Moonie - "Ner"

I really think that if it was meant soley for you, the person would have used a pm.

 

[angelduck]

nah, thats what bos is for, so much less effort req'd to just post a quick reply than do a pm, besides, the pm wouldnt have been in the same context etc.

 

[xeuyrawp]

nah, thats what bos is for, so much less effort req'd to just post a quick reply than do a pm

You mean two, rather than one click of the mouse?

 

[silvermoon]

I really think that if it was meant soley for you, the person would have used a pm.

no, it was meant for her. most of the people in this thread know that angie is angelduck. ifid realised you'd misinterpret it i might have pm'd....then again, probably not, but if you'd like to keep up the pleasant delusion than that's fine with me doll.

....ducky: "nerr"?!?! real mature doll *rolls eyes*....

...pwaryeux: its the second click thats the killer, you never know, i might get RSI. just keeping my health in mind when deciding not to pm.

 

[xeuyrawp]

but if you'd like to keep up the pleasant delusion than that's fine with me doll.

I think you've got that backwards.

 

[smurfygirl]

That's actually not true. As an HSC marker, I can tell you that we're more interested in students referring to a variety of ancient, modern and archaeological sources accurately, than which text you use. If you only quote Bradley, I wouldn't expect you to get into the top band. But, having said that a good response that actually answers the question that is asked will do better quoting Bradley than a student who writes a prepared response, quotes all and sundry and doesn't actually answer the question. Accurate references to a variety of sources is the key.

 

[silvermoon]

No-ones opinion on the past is better than anothers

lol ducky - surely you jest? no-one in the history if mankind can compete with the ever-changing opinions of the great gae callender!!!! we all pale in comparison. Anyway, where's the enjoyment in life if you take away my right to discrimination?!?

 

[xeuyrawp]

lol ducky - surely you jest? no-one in the history if mankind can compete with the ever-changing opinions of the great gae callender!!!!

I'm glad you brought that up -- Gae and Pam are friends, I think they were both in the same MA classes. As head markers, I don't think either Gae or Pam would disagree to use of each other's material.