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Unemployment after Graduating (1 Viewer)

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hey all,

i was just wondering wat are the odds of being unemployed after you graduate with a law degree. the reason i am asking is because a friend has not been able to find a job 1 whole year after he graduated. he went to monash uni and did law/music. can it be partly due to his course selection? as the two degrees are unrelated?

thanks for the replies.
 

vodkacrumble

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the music degree shouldn't be detrimental. he still has the same law degree that everyone else would have.

can't comment on employment, but i assume that getting a job does also depend a lot on internship work you do during the degree and networking.
 
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vodkacrumble said:
the music degree shouldn't be detrimental. he still has the same law degree that everyone else would have.

can't comment on employment, but i assume that getting a job does also depend a lot on internship work you do during the degree and networking.
oh yeah i'm sure the music degree wouldn't have negatively impacted on his employment prospects, but i was just thinking maybe employers would prefer a law/arts or law/commerce over a law/music graduate? could that be a reason?

thanks
 
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ur_inner_child

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I doubt that. My employers told me my B Music screamed out that I was a well rounded person. I'm not sure why that is, but they felt that way.

Also, about your friend, it might have something to do with work experience and volunteering. Graduates who have little to no work experience often have a hard time finding a job.

Furthermore, don't underestimate the power of volunteering for a job that is related to law for your foot in the door...
 

hfis

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In additiont to all the above, did your friend absolutely bomb the law component of his course? Ps certainly make degrees, but employment is something else altogether - especially when you realise that you're in direct competition with law graduates from all over.
 

7th Sign

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mate he just has to find the right people for him/her.

a music company might be looking for some one with these types of degree,
music/legal teacher?

their are alot of jobs, they just have to get out their and apply, get their foot in the door. Its crazy how you can get a job, you might just help some one out and find they have a job for you =)
 

seremify007

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Quite a few people I've heard of only use Law to get them a job, but don't actually work in the field at all.
 
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thanks for all the replies. he didn't really want to elaborate on his situation but i know for a fact that during uni he was spending a lot of time teaching piano, so i suspect he may have not had any work experience during uni.

thanks for all the help.
 
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Tell him to volunteer at legal aid, and to work his way up. if he's out of employment, its obviously by his own choosing.
 

Omnidragon

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Well if he/she didn't even try to apply for anything remotely related to law, employers might think you're not really that interested. It just shows law was obviously very low on his/her priority list.
 

bigheadache99

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Has it ever occurred to you that it is a simple matter of supply and demand? The supply [of graduates] has been steadily outstripping the demand for them over the last 2 decades when over a dozen law schools just sprouted out of nowhere at lower-tiered Unis around the country.

These Law Schools did not serve any need other than being utilised as a "prestige" banner to inflat a University's reputation - something like Pharmacy schools which have grown almost 2 times in number during the last 5 years. The side effects of such shenanigans include the lowering of entrance scores and overall standards as well as producing a graduate labour glut.

Law may viewed upon as the new Arts degree. My g/f is doing a Masters by Research in this area with her supervisors. Things are not looking that good.
 

turtleface

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yeah law is the new arts degree, the new generalist degree for generation Y uni bums.
 

je2obrien

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bigheadache99 said:
Has it ever occurred to you that it is a simple matter of supply and demand? The supply [of graduates] has been steadily outstripping the demand for them over the last 2 decades when over a dozen law schools just sprouted out of nowhere at lower-tiered Unis around the country.

These Law Schools did not serve any need other than being utilised as a "prestige" banner to inflat a University's reputation - something like Pharmacy schools which have grown almost 2 times in number during the last 5 years. The side effects of such shenanigans include the lowering of entrance scores and overall standards as well as producing a graduate labour glut.

Law may viewed upon as the new Arts degree. My g/f is doing a Masters by Research in this area with her supervisors. Things are not looking that good.

Did it occur to you that perhaps the increase in pharmacy schools was a manifestation of the chronic shortage (demand if you will) for pharmacists?

But then again that might weaken your argument….
 
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turtleface

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chronic shortage? Is there? Maybe they can attract more people to Pharmacy by increasing the salaries at the drug companies.
 

je2obrien

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Increasing salaries fails to address the shortage.... More graduates are required for that. Consequently you either need to

a) increase the number of positions at current unis

or

b) increase the number of schools.
 

bigheadache99

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je2obrien said:
Did it occur to you that perhaps the increase in pharmacy schools was a manifestation of the chronic shortage (demand if you will) for pharmacists?

But then again that might weaken your argument….
There was never any argument. It is merely a statement of fact.

Do bear in mind, opening up new Pharmacy Schools is only one-half of the "solution" to addressing "shortages". Pharmacy training also requires resources from the Community that, at the moment, appears to be stretched thin. The proliferation of new Pharmacy Schools was rather sudden and clearly hadn't happened in a gradual manner which would have taken into account, future changes in the requirements of the profession from the Community. Furthermore, with the many new fee-paying graduate-entry Master of Pharmacy programs being aggressively hawked, it is hard not to view the development as an all-out-grab for cash and prestige by the Unis under the "noble" banner of "addressing labour shortage". I draw upon my own experiences and I assure you that these sudden industrial/labour provision changes are never good. The last time that happened (in another field), graduate unemployment increased as did attrition and salaries stagnated badly.

Apparently these developments are of enough concern that the NAPSA body is studying closely the implications.

Coming back to the topic at hand, there was serious contention within the Law profession itself in regards to the explosion of new Law Schools back in the late 80s/early 90s. There was a general consensus that it had a detrimental effect on the status, prospects and, not to mention, salary of lawyers.
 
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+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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je2obrien said:
Increasing salaries fails to address the shortage.... More graduates are required for that. Consequently you either need to

a) increase the number of positions at current unis

or

b) increase the number of schools.
there is actualli no chronic shortage in the city... its all rural.. but the nation doesnt have a scheme to promote rural/remote/non-metro pharmacist
 

je2obrien

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+Po1ntDeXt3r+ said:
there is actualli no chronic shortage in the city... its all rural.. but the nation doesnt have a scheme to promote rural/remote/non-metro pharmacist
It's not so much a nationwide scheme, but i know la trobe in bendigo is heavily focussed at producing rural/ community based pharmacists

Furthermore, with the many new fee-paying graduate-entry Master of Pharmacy programs being aggressively hawked, it is hard not to view the development as an all-out-grab for cash and prestige by the Unis under the "noble" banner of "addressing labour shortage". I draw upon my own experiences and I assure you that these sudden industrial/labour provision changes are never good. The last time that happened (in another field), graduate unemployment increased as did attrition and salaries stagnated badly.
Ahh i have to plead ignorance here. I can only comment on Victoria where no graduate entry level pharmacy programs exist!
 
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BillytheFIsh

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At the outset, I'm not sure where this view that there is an over-supply of lawyers comes from, as it's contrary to what my experience and what appears to be the case in the market generally.

The universities don't just keep cranking up the number of law places without reference to what is actually going on in the profession (although it is financially beneficial for them to do so given the low cost of delivery of the degree). There is a constant consultation between universities and the profession as to what the state of play is (and I have spoken to the people who do this).

Basically the situation is that the universities are concerned that they are putting out too many graduates, but the message from the profession is that, for a number of reasons, this is not the case.

A large proportion of graduates not making it to market (for a variety of reasons), the strong economy, existing lawyers ceasing to practice (going in-house, retiring, changing careers etc), overseas-bound practitioners, all mean that the market for new lawyers is still quite strong.

I mean, look at the amount of cash that newly qualified, 1 PAE, 2 PAE etc lawyers can demand. You just don't get that kind of cash being thrown at people where there is no demand for their skills.

Article clerk/trainee-solicitor positions are becoming more difficult to come by as the national admission proceedures come into place, but doing college of law/other uni PLT courses seems to be the way the system is headed except for all but the biggest firms.

In my opinion, a law graduate who can't find a job as a lawyer is either:

1. Not looking hard enough;
2. Not looking in the right places;
3. Has a preference for an area where the demand is not so high and is being too picky;
4. Hasn't taken the initiative to go an do a PLT course of their own accord;
5. Presents badly at interviews; or
6. Simply isn't cut out to be a lawyer.

Oh. And note that having a GPA of 4 or even worse is not included in the above list. While I'm not denying that that is going to stop you from getting a top tier graduate job, most of the partners who interview you in other parts of town most likely failed a couple of subjects themselves and are much less pre-occupied with such things.

On a related issue - there seems to be an opinion around this board that if you don't get that top tier graduate position then its the end of the world and a drastic re-think of what to do after uni is necessary. Can I suggest to anyone that isn't cemented in that view that you do a number of things.

First, think about whether that top-tier path actually is what you really want, or whether that's what you think you want simply because you have the marks to do it and it seems to be what everyone else is doing. If it is, then great; do the clerkships, apply for the positions, do the interviews, it's all great experience.

But if this isn't what you want, or you don't get that grad position at blakes, don't think it's the end of the world. As you know, there are a lot of other options. Consider them. You may end up a lot happier (and perhaps even get home before 7pm sometimes).
 

turtleface

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bigheadache99 said:
Coming back to the topic at hand, there was serious contention within the Law profession itself in regards to the explosion of new Law Schools back in the late 80s/early 90s. There was a general consensus that it had a detrimental effect on the status, prospects and, not to mention, salary of lawyers.
still seems pretty good to me (though the flood of full fee people recently probably didn't help)

compare that to accounting. every uni has an accounting department and the status of accountants has gone to the dogs

I think that the number of factories for graduates in a particular profession is inversely correlated with the status of that profession

low pharm faculties > high status for pharmacists/chemists
low med faculties > high status for doctors
low (relatively) law faculties > high (relatively) status
low dentistry > high status

high accounting faculties > low
high IT faculties >low
high engineering faculties >low
high Science faculties > low
 
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