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Uni Is Easier If Old School Tie Is Public (1 Viewer)

Xayma

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Toodulu said:
a study of 12500 at one university doesn't necessarily represent everyone, especially when they are first years and a lot of them are still adapting to the university environment. also, 12500 students from which courses? what faculties? what sort of assessment criterias were looked at?
i find these headlines just a little bit too convenient
"The study supports findings of similar studies from Western Australia and Britain and, according to its co-author, Ian Dobson, had implications for the "under-funding" of public schools and private and selective schools' claims to offer an extra-value education."

More then one university :)

It also wasn't the first, there was a study of Monash Economic students in the 90's where the public school students performed better given equal marks in year 12, same deal with Western Australia, the main thing, which this did was to try and find out how much better related to the marks.

Different article same issue "More than half of independent school students in the Monash sample had 90+ ENTERs, compared to 37% of students from non-selective government schools (and the disparities are much wider in the general school population)."
 

Not-That-Bright

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That's nice Xayma.
I think the most important study i'd be looking at is... How many PRIVATE school people get into uni, what degree's they get, who ends up with the highest paying sallaries.
 

doe

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i think the focus is on what % get in and what % actually finish, not on the name of the degree and the $ at the end.

the problem seems to me is if there is a serious trend where:

private school students are more likely to get better uai's, and drive up the entry uai
but they are unequipped to deal with the degree of motivation required to study at university undergrad level, and end up leaving the course.
so public school students who may have had the necessary intellect and motivation to see the course through to completion missed out just because the course is popular.
 
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LaraB

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im from a selective school and judging frmo uni friends, it seems that kids from comprehensive schools hav ehad to work harder to get th emarks to get to uni so once they're there they continue to work hard whereas private school kids go nuts coz they've been spoon fed to death thru school and selective kids..i dunno i recokn we kinda slack of coz we're sick of work lol a 3mth break wasnt enough...and i guess also, at least i went to Baulkham HIlls HIgh and a lot of the way we were taught is the same as uni, as is the style of writing etc so you kinda look at it n go meh i can do that n get lazy when you really should be working hard

also - u gotta look at the kindsa courses people do...generally if ur at a selective like Ruse or Baulko, you're "supposed" to do med or law or whatever - ie hard! couses with higher drop outs and a lot of us didnt want to do the courses in the first place, so oobviously you'll not workhard n get sick of it n drop out...

a lot has to do with the culture, both parental and the school iteslf, of being in a selective school Im happy i wanted to do law coz i wasnt pressured into doing somethin i didnt want to by the school andmy parents are cool with whatever i want to do. But people who wanted to do teaching for example were pressured into doing a "better" course by our principalk and others..so often people give in to teh pressure and the 'better/harder' course to keep you happy.

it seems that comprehensive school people mor often actually want to be where they are and aren't just doing it coz they're expected tol so naturally the % of them droppingout would be less.

but as i said - just my experience before anyone feels a need to send a bitchy response:)
 
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LaraB

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doe said:
private school students are more likely to get better uai's, and drive up the entry uai
but they are unequipped to deal with the degree of motivation required to study at university undergrad level, and end up leaving the course.
so public school students who may have had the necessary intellect and motivation to see the course through to completion missed out just because the course is popular.
lol um..u might wanna look at the top 200 UAI ranks for 2004....

oh and i think people are totally forgetting taht generally - private school kids are more likely to do full fee paying as most of us cant afford it and have to actually work to get those xtra few uai points and if they're not up to par wit the course requirement it will be harder so yeah drop outs are likely
but yes im generalising
 
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LaraB

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Not-That-Bright said:
Yes i've got some other facts for u guys....

More private school students end up with high income jobs.
More private school students get into uni (percentage wise).
yes, but have yo0u notice the high % of privat ekids that are in their family's firms?

its not just about uni....\

plus as i said earlier - more private school people generally can afford full fee paying etc wheras public are less likely to so naturally this will increase the number of them at uni
 

Generator

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S_Kaye said:
why is it always the public school people that are so aggressive about this whole public school private school thing... seriously get over it. both are fine, both have their pros and cons
Even though both systems do have their own pros and cons in a general sense, you do think that you are a better person merely because you were a student at a non-public school, don't you? ;)
 

Eagles

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Not-That-Bright said:
Yes i've got some other facts for u guys....

More private school students end up with high income jobs.
More private school students get into uni (percentage wise).
Instead of going to a private school.

A better investment would be to use the money and just BUY ur way into uni.
But then again.. most private school kids usually BUY their way into uni regardless.
 
L

LaraB

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S_Kaye said:
i hate this stupid generalisation that private school kids are spoon fed because that certainly wasnt my experience. at my school we were really pushed and driven to do well, but everyone was working really hard to get those high marks. the school encouraged and fostered out spirit but didnt spoon feed us work. private schools just instill a love of learning that remains a core asset throughout university and beyond. why is it always the public school people that are so aggressive about this whole public school private school thing... seriously get over it. both are fine, both have their pros and cons

peopl assume that becuase it happens in a large number of cases, just as people assume public school kids are bitter toward pirvate coz they're jealous or whatever orf that selective school kids do well coz they go to 20 hrs of tutroing a week... its all stupdid assumptinos so dont take it so personally..everyone cops shit from everyone else!

it just a stupid an assumption as your saying that private schools just instill a love of learning - seriously,u have gota be kidding if you think all private schools do that....sure all schools try to but very few regardless of the sector they're in actually succeed in this.
you cant get shitty at people for generalising about a negative and then generalise about a positive aspect in return....

and its not always public school people arguing this point - my 4 brothers and i are the only ones in our extended family thru public schools, albeit selective schools, but all my other family and nearly all family friends are private schoolers, as are my parents, and a lot are choosing to change to public/selectivbe schools for yr 11 and 12 for the very reason that their private schools lack independent learning and just encourgae kids to memorise... a lota friends at uni and otherwise have also had the same complaints that they hadta work their asses off on their own to get decent UAI's coz their schools just spoon fed u the bare minimum

but b4 ppl bitch back - yes these are just a group or people and there are people who love it. It just depends on your school. For example, schools like Tara despite huge prestige and fees aren't as up there in UAI rankings and stuff as Barker and those kinda schools, just like altho girraween is a selective it isnt as up there as ruse or other schools and this is coz they all teach differnetly and have different ppl there.
 

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http://www.theage.com.au/news/Opini...ns-of-real-life/2005/04/21/1114028481833.html

Private school students miss lessons of real life
By Chloe Bugelly
April 22, 2005


It is no wonder private school kids do poorly at uni. They're ill-prepared.

When I entered university, I was worn out and drained of motivation. It seemed as though the hard work had finished. I had achieved the goals that were emphasised so strongly throughout my 13 years of private school education - I had been accepted into a well-regarded university course and received an ENTER score in the 90s.

Like my private school colleagues, I felt overwhelmed and ill-prepared in those first few daunting university semesters. Although I persisted so I could forge a career in my chosen field, several of my school friends simply could not adapt to independent learning and, after years of teachers spoon-feeding them with knowledge, they opted out because university made them feel incompetent.

A recent Monash University study revealed that students educated at public schools are outperforming their private school counterparts in university, but gain a much smaller proportion of university places. This is hardly surprising, when you consider how sheltered the private school student becomes.

Private schools are businesses. The constant focus on academic results is a competitive one and private schools will often use recent student ENTER scores as the theme of marketing campaigns. This pressure to achieve the highest number up to 99.99, is felt by both students and teachers. As a high result reflects well on the teacher, teachers put extensive time in with students, are generous when predicting individual subject scores (a VTAC requirement) and hold numerous extra study sessions throughout holiday periods and at weekends, to ensure the result is a pleasing one.

For fee-paying parents, this seems like a good thing. Public schools rarely run such programs but, unlike most private schools, students in government schools have been learning for years how to mix with a culturally and socially diverse group of students. They have had to use their initiative to make the most of limited resources and know that to achieve, they have to actively seek help.

Private schools need to put less emphasis on the ENTER score and focus on encouraging independent learning skills. It is startling to see that the majority of private school educated students do not socially interact with those who have come out of the public school system.

This elitist attitude is also a result of private schools ignoring the importance of life skills, such as community awareness and interaction outside the upper socioeconomic strata.

Perhaps if private schools focus more on the welfare of students once they venture outside the school gates, students wouldn't find university such a social and academic challenge. Private schools must encourage students to take a more active role in their own learning and teach children not only what is on the curriculum, but about life in the real world.

Chloe Bugelly is a third-year journalism student at RMIT University.
Just an interesting opinion piece.
 
S

Shuter

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People seem to be forgetting that comprehensive schools =/= selective schools. Comprehensive schools are in general so much dodgier than selective or private.
 
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LaraB

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Shuter said:
People seem to be forgetting that comprehensive schools =/= selective schools. Comprehensive schools are in general so much dodgier than selective or private.
yeah..but tthere seems 2 be more n more dodgy selectives now...ones like CHatswood n stuff that are half selective half not... and then school liek girrween n penrith who aren't exactly up there in the rankings (no offense intended b4 anyone whinges:p)

i think its just an individual school thing:)

eg my little bros at Crestwood which is public comprehensive, and his teachers and resources etc are way better than i or my other 3 bros had at Baulko coz our littlest bros in teh G&T class, which means that the teachers are qualified to teach G&T, unliek selective teachers who get allocated to the school the same as any other school..
 

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LaraB said:
yeah..but tthere seems 2 be more n more dodgy selectives now...ones like CHatswood n stuff that are half selective half not... and then school liek girrween n penrith who aren't exactly up there in the rankings (no offense intended b4 anyone whinges:p)

i think its just an individual school thing:)
Keep in mind that HSC rankings are not a proper measure of school's worth, as in actual fact no such thing exists (former Penrith High student, by the way :)). Your final line should be all that is considered, really, as a school's worth/level of success can only truly be determined by how successful each student believes themselves to be (something that we do not/cannot measure at the current time).
 

Not-That-Bright

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Generator said:
Keep in mind that HSC rankings are not a proper measure of school's worth, as in actual fact no such thing exists (former Penrith High student, by the way :)). Your final line should be all that is considered, really, as a school's worth/level of success can only truly be determined by how successful each student believes themselves to be (something that we do not/cannot measure at the current time).
ur a former penno high student?! =D
 

pete_mate

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independant fucking learning!?

the hsc doesnt encourage it, so its in your interests to learn exactly what that textbook says, not go and research yourself

there is a syllabus and marking criteria, independant learning doesnt exist in the hsc, unless you wanto go off doing hobbies and stuff to the detriment of it
 

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pete_mate said:
independant fucking learning!?

the hsc doesnt encourage it, so its in your interests to learn exactly what that textbook says, not go and research yourself

there is a syllabus and marking criteria, independant learning doesnt exist in the hsc, unless you wanto go off doing hobbies and stuff to the detriment of it
Not quite. Independent learning in this sense refers to going off and working within the syllabus indepedently... That is, the teachers provide the groundwork, and then you go off and ensure that you are happy with your level of understanding (be it by seeking further clarification from a variety of books, the teacher or some other source). This is opposed to the idea of spoon-feeding that clarification.

Yes, Not-That-Bright, I was. Supposedly it has changed, though, from the relatively easy going school of yesteryear into more of a 'you must succeed' factory. Unlucky for those students there at the moment, yet it's sure to lead to the school improving its standing within the all-important HSC rankings.
 

Katie123

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its probably true actually... we were spoon fed...but then again i dont know what other schools did. Uni isnt that much different though as in content right now so its okay
 

ameh

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komaticom: it's really sad that these examples lead students in the public school system to question ''is this how the public school system is?" and hence losing faith, but hell I've lost all faith in it, independent learning kicks arse!
 

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