Update me on VSU (2 Viewers)

[walrusbear]

Whether you like it or not sport and fitness is good for society. Perhaps you should apply your own test to sport. I believe a healthy, fit society is a good society.

But then again people play sport for fun and not money. Some people might consider sport good for character building. The university might consider it prestigious to have good sporting teams.

I mean wouldnt it be good if everyone in society was fit and healthy and active. Think of HOW MUCH YOU COULD CUT FROM PUBLIC HEALTHCARE! But damn. How do you reconcile that with the right of people to stuff their faces and be lazy shits. Damn ay.

I mean I could use your test to justify public health programs where tax payer money is used to force people to be healthy but making it illegal to be fat. A healthy society would save heaps from the budget.

don't bother
obviously if something isn't amenable to stringent market principles then it has no value

 

[Phanatical]

I'm arguing that the spending priorities of the Union are completely wrong. The SRC and the Union already provide (extremely limited) access to materials on health issues, but I believe that this could go further. Liaison with organisations such as the Men's Health Information and Resource Centre at UWS would be greatly beneficial to students, and would involve negligible costs. Supporting first rate netball, however, is NOT greatly beneficial to students. Ideally, the first thing to go would be the Sports fee because there is nothing that SU Sport provide of benefit, that the normal Union and SRC don't (or can't).

I'm also arguing that while supporting first rate rowing isn't in the student interest, that cultivating the Arts among students is. The first goal of our student organisations should be to contribute towards a thriving student community, from which the university experience is improved and the students that come from it are better, more cultured people that can contribute towards Society in the most positive way. Subsidising elite sports players is not the way to do that. Supporting our artists is.

 

[somborac]

Why dont u people from USYD go and talk to USYD. I know that for MQu university fees are like $80 or $200 not sure and for UWS they r some odd $200. I know why you are pissed as ur uni fees are odd $500.

Getting back to the point, sport was just a simple example. I know because i am an athlete with the scholarship and i know how much personally it helps me with equipment, buying books, going to competitions.

Everyone of you against VSU could benefit from it. Its just the matter weather you want to try and achieve something, get involved, meet people, get a girlfriend, be cool and smoooootth and then possibly get sponsored for it and get a job because u meet people, make contacts, ur resumee flourishes, or go get pissed on thursday/saturday night at local tavern and waste ur money there and then complain how u dont have money. I'm not rich, my job doesn't pay much, and i know how much money i "invest" into my education and my sport career and know how much scholarship helps me to go to uni, imporve at my sport and live every day life.

 

[somborac]

If VSU is introduced and govt. says "OMG we r an obese nation, lets waste millions fo $$$$ to stop this apademic...how did this ever happened???? ddduuuhhhh" one of the reasons will be the intro. of VSU and the cancellation of clubs.

 

[Xayma]

a) We are an obese nation.
b) Obesity is a bigger problem then just university populations.
c) Millions of dollars are being spent combating it. In victoria they were running get fit ads again.
d) VSU won't be a large contributor to it, those who have bad habits are unlikely to change them because a gym is at uni, while there are other gyms very close.

 

[erawamai]

d) VSU won't be a large contributor to it, those who have bad habits are unlikely to change them because a gym is at uni, while there are other gyms very close.

It is more a question of whether we value sport. The message sent by those who attack university sport is that sport is of no value.

Cutting funding to sports hardly is a good image when society is so unhealthy.

 

[Collin]

I know because i am an athlete with the scholarship and i know how much personally it helps me with equipment, buying books, going to competitions.

Gee, could smell that one a mile away. USU supporters tend to attack VSU supporters because they are 'selfish'. I.e, not wanting to open their wallets for their own personal interests of saving money. Look at what you're doing, with your first post attacking mine in the last page going on and on about sports scholarships and how money from people like me help those guys out. It was quite simple to deduce there and then you must be one of those people who needs that money.
I don't want to sound incompassionate, but I can honestly say I'm not charitable enough to work my butt off whilst also trying to study at university where as upto a few weeks of my job's pay (thanks Phanatical) goes towards things like sports scholarships which doesn't affect me. I would think that for you to have attacked me on this concept demonstrated your selfishness.

If VSU is introduced and govt. says "OMG we r an obese nation, lets waste millions fo $$$$ to stop this apademic...how did this ever happened???? ddduuuhhhh" one of the reasons will be the intro. of VSU and the cancellation of clubs.

You're letting the desperation of the situation at hand force you to make absurd comments like this. Cutting down on university sports funding is going to be a major contributor to future obesity? That assertion is ridiculous and clearly unfounded.

Xayma: VSU won't be a large contributor to it, those who have bad habits are unlikely to change them because a gym is at uni, while there are other gyms very close.

It is more a question of whether we value sport. The message sent by those who attack university sport is that sport is of no value.

Cutting funding to sports hardly is a good image when society is so unhealthy.

I disagree that the notion of cutting down university sports funding constitutes to a 'we don't care about sport' label. But yes, you're entitled to your opinion and assuming we even both agree on this front, Xayma's d) point implies that practically speaking cutting down on university sports won't affect obesity. It's independent to that of whatever image issues of sport it can bring. Where the endgame of fixing up obesity is about results, then obviously Xayma's point is the most relevant.. i.e good image or crap image on sport, VSU won't matter much on the actual outcome of obesity.

 

[erawamai]

In a society which has a massive obesity problem cutting sports programs hardly inspires confidence. It certainly doesn’t send a message that activities in general are important enough to be funded collectively.

One way in which people can improve their mental and physical fitness is to play competitive sports.

Surely it is good for society (presuming you actually care about society) that sports are encouraged. Not to mention the costs that could be cut from the public health budget if society was not so unhealthy and prone to heart failure. Of course you can't go out and force people to take up any number of sports, but creating an environment where sports are seen as important to the national prestige, health and therefore social cohesion is good for everyone. Unfortunately some people cannot see past their own narrow view of the world and their own narrow self interest.

I would suggest that the economic rationalists in the forum appreciate that a healthy population that enjoys the physcial as well as mental benefits of competitive sports would allow the public health budget to be cut, saving everyone money.

I disagree that the notion of cutting down university sports funding constitutes to a 'we don't care about sport' label.

So what exactly does it indicate? Essentially you are suggesting that university sport is not important enough to be funded from the collective purse.

 

[Collin]

Like I already said, outcomes are what matters (deduced from Xayma's post). It's about you able to prove that a reduction in university sports funding can actually constitute to an outcome of higher obesity rates. I don't give a crap about what image it portrays sport, because like I already said, if neither retaining funding or cutting funding would actually alter actual obesity rate outcomes, it's not relevant is it?

 

[erawamai]

Like I already said, outcomes are what matters (deduced from Xayma's post). It's about you able to prove that a reduction in university sports funding can actually constitute to an outcome of higher obesity rates. I don't give a crap about what image it portrays sport, because like I already said, if neither retaining funding or cutting funding would actually alter actual obesity rate outcomes, it's not relevant is it?

So how exactly do you encourage people from being fat and unhealthy slobs that need the constant support of the public health system? (which you happen or will pay tax for in the future)

I mean according to you the first step would be cut $ support for university sport because you cannot seem to find a link between sport and a healthly society. I can see the link between sport (or encouraging respect for sport) and a healthy society.

So how exactly are you going to ensure real results? Make people run laps around the oval? Force people to join teams? Or does you perspective not consider how to make people fitter and healthier? Maybe its because your approach isn't concerned about whether society is healthy or not.

People should be free to treat their bodies anyway they like....right?

 

[Generator]

Part of the problem with regards to sport at the Universities (well, USyd, at least) is that though such services exist for the use of the collective, the image that they present to the world is one of the student body at large supporting the continuance of GPS rivalries of old for the few.

The sporting teams and the other sporting services are the least of our worries, as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: I do realise that such an argument could quite easily be applied to the other student associations and the services that they provide, but in this instance I'm of the opinion that the collective benefit is not as apparent or critical as that provided by the SRCs (and the unions, to a lesser extent).

 

[erawamai]

Part of the problem with regards to sport at the Universities (well, USyd, at least) is that though it exists for the use of the collective, the image that it presents to the old is one of the student body at large supporting the continuance of GPS rivalries of old for the few.

I think that comes from the perception that Rugby and Cricket are sports of the GPS. Many kids that are not from the GPS play cricket for usyd. Perhaps the same is not true for Rugby.

 

[Collin]

So how exactly do you encourage people from being fat and unhealthy slobs that need the constant support of the public health system? (which you happen or will pay tax for in the future)

I mean according to you the first step would be cut $ support for university sport because you cannot seem to find a link between sport and a healthly society. I can see the link between sport (or encouraging respect for sport) and a healthy society.

So how exactly are you going to ensure real results? Make people run laps around the oval? Force people to join teams? Or does you perspective not consider how to make people fitter and healthier? Maybe its because your approach isn't concerned about whether society is healthy or not.

People should be free to treat their bodies anyway they like....right?

You seem to imply that cutting sports funding is my attempt to fix up the problem. What? I merely suggested that cutting out funding won't have a major impact on obesity outcomes, hence it could be done.

The problem with your argument is that you seem to think university sport is almighty important to the image of sport within Australia as a whole. Do you really believe a person's motivation to get into shape, increase fitness and decrease body fat percentage can be even a tiny bit attributed to the presence of university sports? The media bombards the populace enough with models, creating the sense that it is best to be skinny. We have sport regularly on TV, major sports section in newspapers, external sports clubs etc. How much do you really think sports within universities can contribute towards promoting sport within this country in general? Not much, I would think, and for me, certainly not worth paying hundreds of dollars each year.

Also, how can you prove that the majority of people joining university sports are doing it for the sake of obesity? Isn't the issue here obesity? If we're talking about healthy living, then we can achieve this elsewhere, why is university sports so integral? The straight forward way for an obese person to lose weight = caloric deficit + cardiovascular exercise + increased incidental activity. Now if you're trying to say university sports is directly responsible to promoting those aspects, I'd say you were kidding. There are other ways to do sports, son, and even more ways to lose weight.

The point is university sports is a very minor player to the perception of sport as a whole in this country and I don't find financially hard pushed students like myself justifying hundreds of dollars a year on it feasible, practical, nor appropriate.

 

[erawamai]

You seem to imply that cutting sports funding is my attempt to fix up the problem. What? I merely suggested that cutting out funding won't have a major impact on obesity outcomes, hence it could be done.

We have an a health problem in Australia and your first response seems to be to cut funding to sporting programs within the universities. You still havn't told me how cutting sporting programs at universities actually helps the health problems. All you gave told me is that it is unfair for poorer students to subsidise sport clubs.

The problem with your argument is that you seem to think university sport is almighty important to the image of sport within Australia as a whole. Do you really believe a person's motivation to get into shape, increase fitness and decrease body fat percentage can be even a tiny bit attributed to the presence of university sports?

If you can foster respect for sport and the role it can play in physical and mental development then yes people will play sport in order to get fit and improve their mental sharpness. Cutting university sport and implying that it is of little importance DOES NOT foster respect for sport within society.

Currently much motivation for people to get fit is vanity. I like to keep fit but I'd never go anywhere near a gym. Full of posers and guys that are much to vain for their own good only doing it to make up for their small penises and inability to interface with the opposing sex.

How much do you really think sports within universities can contribute towards promoting sport within this country in general? Not much, I would think, and for me, certainly not worth paying hundreds of dollars each year.

Plenty. Many of Australia's top sportsmen and women have played for their respective universities or have used university funded sporting faciltities.

In the case of cricket the university cricket clubs play a large part in player development.

Also, how can you prove that the majority of people joining university sports are doing it for the sake of obesity? Isn't the issue here obesity? If we're talking about healthy living, then we can achieve this elsewhere, why is university sports so integral? The straight forward way for an obese person to lose weight = caloric deficit + cardiovascular exercise + increased incidental activity. Now if you're trying to say university sports is directly responsible to promoting those aspects, I'd say you were kidding. There are other ways to do sports, son, and even more ways to lose weight.

There are also mental balance issues. Sitting in a gym surrounded by mirrors and posing people is not good for mental health. Competitive sports is good for you.

You seem also to be missing the point of image. Currently your first move would be remove support for university sport as your first step to combat health problems. That hardly would encourage people to take up some kind of sport. Would it?

The fact that the facilities and clubs are there is more encouraging than not having them there.

The point is university sports is a very minor player to the perception of sport as a whole in this country and I don't find financially hard pushed students like myself justifying hundreds of dollars a year on it feasible, practical, nor appropriate.

Not in the cases of rugby and cricket.

...and um...don't you like in the electorate of pittwater?

 

[somborac]

for petes sake

Gee, could smell that one a mile away. USU supporters tend to attack VSU supporters because they are 'selfish'. I.e, not wanting to open their wallets for their own personal interests of saving money. Look at what you're doing, with your first post attacking mine in the last page going on and on about sports scholarships and how money from people like me help those guys out. It was quite simple to deduce there and then you must be one of those people who needs that money.
I don't want to sound incompassionate, but I can honestly say I'm not charitable enough to work my butt off whilst also trying to study at university where as upto a few weeks of my job's pay (thanks Phanatical) goes towards things like sports scholarships which doesn't affect me. I would think that for you to have attacked me on this concept demonstrated your selfishness.



You're letting the desperation of the situation at hand force you to make absurd comments like this. Cutting down on university sports funding is going to be a major contributor to future obesity? That assertion is ridiculous and clearly unfounded.

Xayma: VSU won't be a large contributor to it, those who have bad habits are unlikely to change them because a gym is at uni, while there are other gyms very close.



I disagree that the notion of cutting down university sports funding constitutes to a 'we don't care about sport' label. But yes, you're entitled to your opinion and assuming we even both agree on this front, Xayma's d) point implies that practically speaking cutting down on university sports won't affect obesity. It's independent to that of whatever image issues of sport it can bring. Where the endgame of fixing up obesity is about results, then obviously Xayma's point is the most relevant.. i.e good image or crap image on sport, VSU won't matter much on the actual outcome of obesity.

do u hear your self think or do u drift in and out? yeh mate we are selfsih, how bout the times when we do charity games to help organisations raise money for whatever reason. get off it mate. its not about sport, sport was an EXAMPLE. a simple EXAMPLE, just ONE simple EXAMPLE .

ill give u another example, uni parties and cruises that are organised by lets say "party club: for ppl who like to party", sure we all love going to those parties were the ticket is cheap and food and drink even cheaper, yet you dont ask why is it cheap. or if you dont liek parties, how bout the debating club, i see you liek debating, join one then, go compete, debate, u seem to think u r good at it. or maybe you dont like going to such event and getting invloved coz u cant be fu*ed contributing to anything.

it is not us who are selfsih, it is you mate, we do pay for uni fees equally so everyone can enjoy them, it only a matter of question weather you will take the opportunity and do something with your life or will you be a couch potato whos most exciting thing is the new episode of "CIS" on TV.

 

[Xayma]

Well not really. You recieve a scholarship paid for by other students fees so you just end up getting less then the advertised amount without contributing at all to the amount.

 

[Collin]

To repeat myself again, I NEVER said it HELPS health problems. I said it wouldn't deteriorate it to any significant extent, hence it's not a necessity.

Encouraging sports is helpful for health issues, correct. However does cutting of university sports funds going to imply that it is no longer accessible for students to access sporting? Not to mention the fact that university sports will be halted completely, it is simply a funding cut, not a funding halt.

Dude, it's probable the majority of people (especially young people) who want to get fit is for appearances. So? It is your own opinion that that's not the reason you prefer to get fit, but that doesn't deter the fact it's a highly open option for many other people. Plus you're also generalising against people who gym, in quite an uneducated manner may I add, since you also assert that you'd 'never go anywhere near a gym'. The gym is an excellent place to build strength, endurance and cardiovascular ability. It's becoming apparent that you're quite biased against many other options of retaining health except for university sports. I would be pretty confident in saying that gyms are considerably more effective in helping people retain health and fitness than university sports. Whatever opinions you hold of people who go there isn't relevant, thank you very much.

Mental balance issues as in motivation? One main reason how exercise helps people is due to the release of feel good hormones, such as endorphins.. and suppressing depressive catabolic ones like cortisol. You can achieve both in both gyms and university sports. Another benefit is team sports, which raises the matter into a social event. This is actually a good point for university sport, however it's not like you can't achieve this playing sports outside of university, going to the gym with friends or jogging with a mate.

Once again (I'm not sure how many more times I have to repeat this), my biff against USU contributions ISN'T my attempt towards combating health problems. I wish you would stop making wrong assumptions.

As for cutting university sports funding discouraging people from taking up a sport, true.. but to what extent when you look at the big picture? I wouldn't think much. And like I already mentioned, competitive sports isn't by far the only method to get fit and healthy. Finally, I would be confident in suggesting a person's tendency to get into team and competitive sports stems from the teenage, or even pre-puberty period, and that carries on into university. Chances are, if they were already into competitive sporting, they wouldn't let a funding cut to university sports get in the way of them retaining health. From a psychological point of view, university students who have never really been into competitive sports isn't gonna suddenly change their minds at university. If they wanted to get fit, like I said there are a plethora of other ways.

Yes, I live in Pittwater. So? I see you're trying to imply another generalisation, how excellent.

 

[Collin]

do u hear your self think or do u drift in and out? yeh mate we are selfsih, how bout the times when we do charity games to help organisations raise money for whatever reason. get off it mate. its not about sport, sport was an EXAMPLE. a simple EXAMPLE, just ONE simple EXAMPLE .

ill give u another example, uni parties and cruises that are organised by lets say "party club: for ppl who like to party", sure we all love going to those parties were the ticket is cheap and food and drink even cheaper, yet you dont ask why is it cheap. or if you dont liek parties, how bout the debating club, i see you liek debating, join one then, go compete, debate, u seem to think u r good at it. or maybe you dont like going to such event and getting invloved coz u cant be fu*ed contributing to anything.

it is not us who are selfsih, it is you mate, we do pay for uni fees equally so everyone can enjoy them, it only a matter of question weather you will take the opportunity and do something with your life or will you be a couch potato whos most exciting thing is the new episode of "CIS" on TV.

I'm selfish? I wasn't the one attacking another, taking up half my argument with how my sports scholarship will be affected because someone else who doesn't have anything to do with my sports career doesn't feel inclined to pay towards it if legislation permits him not to.

Secondly, you sound bitter as if I don't pay my Union fees. I pay them, because I have to. The point is I wouldn't if I didn't. So? No one's stopping you from paying.

 

[SashatheMan]

do u hear your self think or do u drift in and out? yeh mate we are selfsih, how bout the times when we do charity games to help organisations raise money for whatever reason. get off it mate. its not about sport, sport was an EXAMPLE. a simple EXAMPLE, just ONE simple EXAMPLE .

ill give u another example, uni parties and cruises that are organised by lets say "party club: for ppl who like to party", sure we all love going to those parties were the ticket is cheap and food and drink even cheaper, yet you dont ask why is it cheap. or if you dont liek parties, how bout the debating club, i see you liek debating, join one then, go compete, debate, u seem to think u r good at it. or maybe you dont like going to such event and getting invloved coz u cant be fu*ed contributing to anything.

it is not us who are selfsih, it is you mate, we do pay for uni fees equally so everyone can enjoy them, it only a matter of question weather you will take the opportunity and do something with your life or will you be a couch potato whos most exciting thing is the new episode of "CIS" on TV.

who said he doesnt do anythign with his life? a person can do activities outside uni. he can use money for other activities , that dont have to be associated with uni. why do you think everyone has to do everythign in uni, thats just a small part of peopels lives, and people who choose not to take up activities within uni , use it even less.

and when unis hold parties or something, we still pay for everything, its only cheaper by a few dollars for the entence and a few cents cheaper for drinks and food. if you add it up, it doesnt contibute to anything close to the amount we flog out each year.

i am sure yuoll find it convinient aswell when VSU sets in, because you wont have to try to dig up 300 dollars a semester. yuoll just pay a few dollars more for services , that wont add up to that sum.
and if you still think that youll still be better now then before your really arrogant and dont care about others, just yourself

 

[Collin]

who said he doesnt do anythign with his life? a person can do activities outside uni. he can use money for other activities , that dont have to be associated with uni. why do you think everyone has to do everythign in uni, thats just a small part of peopels lives, and people who choose not to take up activities within uni , use it even less.

and when unis hold parties or something, we still pay for everything, its only cheaper by a few dollars for the entence and a few cents cheaper for drinks and food. if you add it up, it doesnt contibute to anything close to the amount we flog out each year.

i am sure yuoll find it convinient aswell when VSU sets in, because you wont have to try to dig up 300 dollars a semester. yuoll just pay a few dollars more for services , that wont add up to that sum.
and if you still think that youll still be better now then before your really arrogant and dont care about others, just yourself

Totally agree. Uni isn't the center of the world.

He's just very bitter, and of course one should expect him to resort to personal attacks sooner or later.