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Use of religion for political gain (1 Viewer)

Not-That-Bright

Andrew Quah
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I hate people that like to say that your religious beliefs should not intertwine with politics, i'm an atheist, but I don't see the difference between a religious belief leading to a political decision and a personal belief leading to a political decision.

Just sounds like an excuse to bitch about people that disagree with you.
 

Monkey Butler

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Religion's just one of the many touchstones that politicians use to gain the uninformed vote. Somebody who has no idea of the issues in an election can still be easily swayed if a candidate can demonstrate that they're in some way similar to the voter. That's why you get John Howard playing the "mateship", "Aussie battler" and, yes, religion cards so often, because it's something familiar and agreeable to alot of people.

LaraB, you've hit on one of the big problems I have with religion - alot of people are brought up with a certain religious tradition, and because they're comfortable in that tradition they refuse to question it. I saw it alot in school: people start out with this narrow view of Christianity (in this case) and then through the bullshit they hear at Chapel this worldview gets entrenched, and they end up with a very warped view of the world. One of my mates actually told me around the last election that it'd be good to see Family First win some seats in parliament so "some good Chrisitian morals could be introduced into parliament".
 

Not-That-Bright

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Alot of people these days are more into pick-and-choose religion where they basically customise and create their own religion - freaks.

By the way Shady_04, most of the Dean Backers in the DNC are white christians, I'd also point out that the democrats use religion in a different way - often accusing the republicans of being religious fanatics that blow up abortion clinics.
 

Dr_Gorgeous

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shady_03 said:
I was watchin this doco the other day, it was how bush senior used the evangelical christians 2 win him the election, even tho he wasnt really religious. He didnt like talking about religion or (i dont think) he really practiced it alot but he sent bush junior (who was a highly devoted christian himself) wen out and he basically persuaded them that bush senior was on their side and "understood" them .....

Its really shitty how political figures can use peoples religion like that to gain something for themselves, religion shouldnt be exploited like that..... even tho these types of religious people are a bit scary....
Catholics and 'the church' did it all the time in the middle ages. Very corrupt yet interesting history...
 

townie

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if they wanna pander the fundamentalists, no problem.

wat i have a problem with, is when a (powerful) minority, begins to control policy deciscions and such.
 
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LaraB

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Monkey Butler said:
Religion's just one of the many touchstones that politicians use to gain the uninformed vote. Somebody who has no idea of the issues in an election can still be easily swayed if a candidate can demonstrate that they're in some way similar to the voter. That's why you get John Howard playing the "mateship", "Aussie battler" and, yes, religion cards so often, because it's something familiar and agreeable to alot of people.

LaraB, you've hit on one of the big problems I have with religion - alot of people are brought up with a certain religious tradition, and because they're comfortable in that tradition they refuse to question it. I saw it alot in school: people start out with this narrow view of Christianity (in this case) and then through the bullshit they hear at Chapel this worldview gets entrenched, and they end up with a very warped view of the world. One of my mates actually told me around the last election that it'd be good to see Family First win some seats in parliament so "some good Chrisitian morals could be introduced into parliament".
lol i know what you mean...

was amazing i was at a selective school with kids doing amazingly in sciences and history etc but still didnt even question their beliefs and the origins... although there were those on the other side so made for interesting scripture 'lessons' lol...

yeah - my MP is Louise Markus - Family First in a Liberal disguise is the way the local paper put it lol.... she's into Hillsong and all that stuff which isn't really too good for our area given those people live in a geographically and numerically small area of the region and so totally ignores the huge amount of middle to lower class in the area....

has anyon eheard anything from family first lately? coz hasn't seemed to be anything in the news so im curious to know exaclt what their policies and the like are given th current situations...
 

paper cup

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shady_03 said:
I was watchin this doco the other day, it was how bush senior used the evangelical christians 2 win him the election, even tho he wasnt really religious. He didnt like talking about religion or (i dont think) he really practiced it alot but he sent bush junior (who was a highly devoted christian himself) wen out and he basically persuaded them that bush senior was on their side and "understood" them .....

Its really shitty how political figures can use peoples religion like that to gain something for themselves, religion shouldnt be exploited like that..... even tho these types of religious people are a bit scary....
wake up and smell the coffee
it's called politics if they didn't manipulate society to their advantage they wouldn't win anything
 
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LaraB

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cherryblossom said:
wake up and smell the coffee
it's called politics if they didn't manipulate society to their advantage they wouldn't win anything

i don't think anyone's saying they don't think it happens... seems we all agree that it happens and that's why they win... just don't agree with it:)
 

shady_03

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Not-That-Bright said:
Alot of people these days are more into pick-and-choose religion where they basically customise and create their own religion - freaks.

By the way Shady_04, most of the Dean Backers in the DNC are white christians, I'd also point out that the democrats use religion in a different way - often accusing the republicans of being religious fanatics that blow up abortion clinics.
Beleive it or not, for the first time im not attacking the right and saying "oh fuk those assholes using religion" both sides use it, but (from the doco) it showed that bush used it alot as one of the centerpeices of the campaign, wat i was trying to tap into was the fact that the manipulation of it for personal reasons was wrong.

Not-That-Bright said:
I hate people that like to say that your religious beliefs should not intertwine with politics, i'm an atheist, but I don't see the difference between a religious belief leading to a political decision and a personal belief leading to a political decision.

Just sounds like an excuse to bitch about people that disagree with you.
(Not attacking you) but u dont see nething wrong with a political party using peoples religion just 2 get votes, when they may not even practice or beleive in it? It then turns into a deception...

Im just projecting my thought on the topic, u have different thoughts on the topic 2 mine and thats fine. U and everyone else can disagree with me i dont really mind, every ones entitled to their own opinion. Just that i personally beleive it shouldnt be done.
 
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Generator

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Shady, what is it about religion that sets it apart from you implicitly suggest to be the 'trivialities' of secular political life? Why is it more important than any other facet of life?
 

shady_03

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Generator said:
Shady, what is it about religion that sets it apart from you implicitly suggest to be the 'trivialities' of secular political life? Why is it more important than any other facet of life?
i guess its the whole thing that its a personal belief system, and something which the evangelical chrisitians place as the highest priority of their lives (for example reading and reciting the bible is more important than church) So y would u manipulate the way a person chooses to live (ie by the bible)??? Ur taking their strongest emotional and spiritual belief and using it "against" them.
 

Generator

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But why is that any more sacred than a strong belief in the commodity market and the materialistic world? Besides, as I said earlier, the fundamentalists in the US are quite powerful and it is hardly a case of exploiting their beliefs (in fact, they appear to be exerting as much pressure as they can bring to bear).
 

shady_03

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Generator said:
But why is that any more sacred than a strong belief in the commodity market and the materialistic world? Besides, as I said earlier, the fundamentalists in the US are quite powerful and it is hardly a case of exploiting their beliefs (in fact, they appear to be exerting as much pressure as they can bring to bear).
i dunno, i see that beleiving in religion much more significan than material objects or commodities... but thats just me
 

Generator

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For what reason is a belief in a social construct designed to institutionalise a mythical force more significant than another social construct that deals with something that is largely tangible?

note: tangible within the social construct, that is.
 

Monkey Butler

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I think he pretty much answered that, Generator - he believes, for his own personal reasons (posssibly inexplicable, but then, so many personal reasons are) that religion is a more important, or perhaps more sacred (no pun intended) belief, and that it shouldn't be exploited.

The way I see it, religion is the last great divider, you still see people widely segregated based on religion or sect, and many people in their own minds draw distinctions between relgions and sects (Catholics have a guilt complex, Hillsongers are all freaks etc.) without any feeling of guilt. It seems to me that religious prejudice is the only form of "acceptable" prejudice in our society, which means that it can be wielded very easily, and guilt-free, by those in power. As somebody (was it you?) said, you can call the atheists baby-killers, and the fundies unenlightened zealots, and not only will it be considered virtually acceptable, a hell of a lot of people will agree with you.
 
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LaraB

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Monkey Butler said:
I think he pretty much answered that, Generator - he believes, for his own personal reasons (posssibly inexplicable, but then, so many personal reasons are) that religion is a more important, or perhaps more sacred (no pun intended) belief, and that it shouldn't be exploited.

The way I see it, religion is the last great divider, you still see people widely segregated based on religion or sect, and many people in their own minds draw distinctions between relgions and sects (Catholics have a guilt complex, Hillsongers are all freaks etc.) without any feeling of guilt. It seems to me that religious prejudice is the only form of "acceptable" prejudice in our society, which means that it can be wielded very easily, and guilt-free, by those in power. As somebody (was it you?) said, you can call the atheists baby-killers, and the fundies unenlightened zealots, and not only will it be considered virtually acceptable, a hell of a lot of people will agree with you.
Random comment - to all those really anti or really pro religion in particular - watch teh whole John Safran vs God series... especially the US exorcist guy and the Catholic aussie guy and the Gospel guys (lol this one's just coz he auditions for THE best gospel choir in the world and he sucks to put it mildly so its more for comedic value than religious analysis :))
 

2sense

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Politicians will do anything to win elections. What's new?
 

Rorix

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Part of why you elect a candadate is his or her ability to respond to any new events that may arise in a way agreeable to you. Obviously, their record and their system of values are going to be the main predictors upon how they react to new events.

Hence, it is not only logical but DEMOCRATICALLY PROPER to vote for the candadate who best represents your system of values, which is highly entwined with religion.


How can you tell me we have true representative democracy if politics is completely void of any religious inspired values, if it is even possible to have any agreeable system of morality or values without religious influence?
 

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Sect expels 1000 boys so men get more wives

Washington: Up to 1000 teenage boys have been separated from their parents and thrown out of their communities by a polygamous sect to make more young women available for older men, Utah state officials allege.

Many of the so-called "Lost Boys", some as young as 13, were dumped on the side of the road in Arizona and Utah by leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and told they will never see their families again or go to heaven.

The 10,000-strong sect, which broke away from the Mormon church in 1890 when the mainstream faith disavowed polygamy, believes a man must marry at least three women to go to heaven. The sect appeared to be in turmoil on Monday after its assets were frozen and a warrant was issued in Arizona for the arrest of its authoritarian leader, Warren Jeffs, for arranging a wedding between an under-age girl and a 28-year-old man who was already married.

Jeffs is being sued by lawyers for six of the Lost Boys for purging surplus males from the community, and by his nephew Brent Jeffs, who has accused him of sexual abuse. Utah state officials believe Jeffs may be in hiding in a sect compound near Eldorado, Texas, and they have warned that cornering him could provoke a tragedy like the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian sect in Waco, Texas.

Jim Hill, an investigator in Utah's attorney-general's office, said on Monday: "From everything I've been able to discern about Warren Jeffs, he is someone who is capable of some very different things. Whether that includes a mass suicide, I don't know. But I worry about it all the time."

Sect leaders have argued that the Lost Boys were exiled because they were teenage delinquents who refused to keep the sect's rules. A state investigator, Jim Hill, said their expulsion had more to do with the ruthless sexual arithmetic of a polygamous sect.

"Obviously if you're going to have three to one or four to one female to male marriages, you're going to run out of females," he said. "The way of taking care of it is selectively casting out those you don't want to be in the religion."
i think i agree with horace when he says, religio mihi nihil est.
 
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katie_tully

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I'm not sure whether this has been said, but I see this two ways.

One: Religion is purely another tool that can be used to win over the masses. It's no better or no worse than using the fear of terrorism to win votes, or any other ploy that is popular with the masses. We saw when Bush was re-elected last year that the majority of voters were, like him, born again Christians. He appealed to the majority of people, no matter how slack jawed yokel they are.

Two: I disagree with using your religion to impose restrictions on other people. I'll use the abortion debate because it's the most recent :rolleyes:
 

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