USYD DFEE Law vs UTS CSP Law >.> (2 Viewers)

[xxJTxx]

Short version:
What would you choose, and why?
(then if you want, see details below to give an opinion based on my financial situation and that stuff)

Long version:
So I did the whole info day bonanza thing today..and if anything..it made me want to go to USYD even more.
But I don't have the cut off for a CSP place.
I won't state my uai here, but heres some indication - I can get into UTS CSP law/business very comfortably, I just missed UNSW CSP law/commerce, and i'm more than half a uai point off USYD CSP law/commerce. Please don't try and guess my uai, that's just not cool.

I can easily get a DFEE place (assuming the cut off doesn't go up too much) at USYD..(i'm not even considering giving UNSW a cent in a DFEE spot...), but with a mark like mine, is it worth paying in DFEE? I'd have to get FEE HELP as well..but that doesn't seem like much of a burden (correct me if i'm wrong) - they can only ever get 8% max of your taxable income..so i'd opt for that, and you can pay voluntarly into as well, to get rid of it faster.

But is it worth paying DFEE? I'd still definitely work my ass off as if I was working for a transfer from say Law at UTS to Law at Syd, to get into a CSP place (still equally competitive).
According to the people representing the law faculty at UTS..it's just as good as UNSW and USYD minus the prestige basically. But their grad employment rate is supposedly 86% - and they get the summer internships and what not just as the other uni's.

Sometimes I think Law at UTS has its advantages (the practical experience and curriculum, as well as opportunity to do PLT) - but, the question here is, would I even be batting an eyelid at UTS if I got the CSP UAI for USYD law? NO..>.>

So am I kidding myself?

OPINIONS PLEASE

(P.S. I probably missed some important stuff here..but work with me lol, i'm tired having jumped from uni to uni all day)

 

[blakegman]

obviously sydney seems to be regarded as the uni with the most prestigious law degree, but from what ive heard off a couple of people who practice law, UTS is just as good in terms of what you learn. personally id take the UTS spot and try and transfer. DFEE seems like a lot of money to me for what seems like not that big an increase in degree quality. unless your parents are rich.

i recognise some of that is simply heresay, but i dont really have much to do with law.

though whats with the uai secrecy ? seems a bit odd, each to their own i guess though

 

[xxJTxx]

obviously sydney seems to be regarded as the uni with the most prestigious law degree, but from what ive heard off a couple of people who practice law, UTS is just as good in terms of what you learn. personally id take the UTS spot and try and transfer. DFEE seems like a lot of money to me for what seems like not that big an increase in degree quality. unless your parents are rich.

i recognise some of that is simply heresay, but i dont really have much to do with law.

though whats with the uai secrecy ? seems a bit odd, each to their own i guess though

in regard to the uai question..i guess i just don't want it on a public forum stamped on my sig just yet ahhaha im weird, but whatever.

parents aren't rich ahaha...as i said, ill go on FEE HELP if i do get it...my parents said they could come up wit hthe cash...but i wanna do uni on my own, and secondly, i don't want to make them feel obliged to pay when i can just go to another uni.

yes i do agree that usyd seems to be for the prestige. but apparently there is this sense in some firms that if ure not a syd grad, ure not the same quality. >.> according to the uts faculty reps. that is 'phasing out' now.

also, according to one of the unsw faculty reps he said that its not like its usyd, then unsw, then uts is utter shit...apparently its really just based on your marks for grad opportunities (besides the few firms that seem to be snobbish in the grads they hire)

 

[Metric]

Although USyd is undoubtedly a more pretigious law school than UTS, I really don't think the difference is worth what you would be paying each year (or paying down the track) in DFEE fees.

I think that you should definately go to UTS, work really hard, and then apply to transfer to USyd or UNSW after your first year. Even if you miss out on a transfer spot, I don't think going to UTS will be looked upon unfavourably by an employer (see this article). No one will pass you up simply for being a UTS graduate, and no one will fall over themselves chasing you simply because you went to USyd.

 

[ari89]

Do as much as you can at UTS as a CSP student then transfer to DFEE at USYD if your GPA doesn't increase your UAI enough to a CSP place there. Advantage - you pay a year or so as a CSP student and get those subjects credited at USYD where you would have had to pay an extra $18k a year as a DFEE student. Risk - if you do bad your NRSL goes down so you may not get accepted into a DFEE place at USYD.

My plan in doing the B laws/B Bus is to transfer out once my first 3 years are over (having graduated with my first degree) and complete the final 2 years of law at a more prestigious institution as a graduate student.

 

[xxJTxx]

I think that you should definately go to UTS, work really hard, and then apply to transfer to USyd or UNSW after your first year. Even if you miss out on a transfer spot, I don't think going to UTS will be looked upon unfavourably by an employer (see this article). No one will pass you up simply for being a UTS graduate, and no one will fall over themselves chasing you simply because you went to USyd.

Yes correct. Good point.

Do as much as you can at UTS as a CSP student then transfer to DFEE at USYD if your GPA doesn't increase your UAI enough to a CSP place there. Advantage - you pay a year or so as a CSP student and get those subjects credited at USYD where you would have had to pay an extra $18k a year as a DFEE student. Risk - if you do bad your NRSL goes down so you may not get accepted into a DFEE place at USYD.

My plan in doing the B laws/B Bus is to transfer out once my first 3 years are over (having graduated with my first degree) and complete the final 2 years of law at a more prestigious institution as a graduate student.

Your first paragraph encapsulates exactly what my worry is..I might not even have the opportunity to pay full fees after a year - although, I guess I just have to not think like that and work my ass off regardless.

Your plan sounds good Nice one.


Anyhow, I have DFEE Combined Law at USYD as like my 6th preference..and UTS CSP as my third (with UNSW and USYD ahead of it, assuming some miracle could happen hahaha)...they say you get two offers (assuming your eligible) when you have a DFEE course in your prefs..one for your highest CSP pref, and one for your highest DFEE pref that your eligible to.

 

[sarevok]

With your marks you should be able to get at least a transfer into UNSW law if you perform decently in first year, into USYD law if you perform well.
IMO those who pay full-fee for a law degree are silly because of graduate law. Graduate law is only an extra year and the marks you need to receive in a place in either USYD or UNSW aren't that high. The CSP amount for a graduate law student is pretty much the same as undergrad (see here: http://www.law.usyd.edu.au/fstudent/undergrad/fees.shtml).

My advice to you: if you are set on doing an LLB *now*, then go to UTS for your first year and I think a student with your marks is likely to get a transfer to UNSW or USYD after first year. If you aren't, then start doing your other degree (business) at your preferred university and if you don't get a transfer after first year, do graduate law at either USYD or UNSW.
I strongly advise against paying full-fee. It is a huge waste of money considering your other options, in particular the fallback of graduate law which is only an extra year.

 

[velox]

My brother's a lawyer, and he said go unsw/usyd or dont bother.

You wont find many uts people at places like mallesons, blakes etc.

 

[Steth0scope]

Usyd Ftw!

 

[Frigid]

My brother's a lawyer, and he said go unsw/usyd or dont bother.

You wont find many uts people at places like mallesons, blakes etc.

wrong, oh so wrong.

 

[xxJTxx]

My brother's a lawyer, and he said go unsw/usyd or dont bother.

You wont find many uts people at places like mallesons, blakes etc.

It's things like this that scare me.
Just when I was getting hyped for UTS.
But that article seems to go against your statement.

 

[poloktim]

Given the choice, I'd always go for a CSP.

I may live in a rose-coloured world, but in my opinion if you can prove to potential employers, regardless of industry, that you're more able (and a better person) than your sandstone counterparts, you should have a better shot.

I don't say that as an attack on people from sandstone unis, I just don't see the point of going DFEE when you have a CSP in the same field not ten minutes down the road. Your debt will be so much higher, it's absolutely pointless.

 

[xxJTxx]

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[velox]

It's things like this that scare me.
Just when I was getting hyped for UTS.
But that article seems to go against your statement.

Yeh I trust peoples opinions rather than articles, but do some research. All the lawyers at his old place were from go8 unis.

 

[Metric]

Yeh I trust peoples opinions rather than articles, but do some research. All the lawyers at his old place were from go8 unis.

I don't see why a law firm would have any reason to lie in that survey about where they recruit from. Look at the websites of the top firms and check out the profiles of partners. They come from a wide variety of universities (and not just in Australia!). UTS is not as well-established (and thus not as prestigious) as USyd, but these days no firm will throw out your resume because it has UTS on it.

 

[monzi]

My brother's a lawyer, and he said go unsw/usyd or dont bother.

You wont find many uts people at places like mallesons, blakes etc.

Hahahahaha! You are very pretencious. I'm starting a new position at Mallesons Stephes and Jacques in February and I go to UTS.

Don't generalise, USYD and UNSW is not the be all and end all of a law degree.

Brainwashed I say.

 

[snowflakelatte]

i was in the same position and it was uts i chose! not only because it seemed better for law but the int studies degree was 1000x better for what i wanted to do compared to syd

 

[jackmurray1989]

I've only heard good things about UTS. I wouldn't waste your cash.

 

[xxJTxx]

Hahahahaha! You are very pretencious. I'm starting a new position at Mallesons Stephes and Jacques in February and I go to UTS.

Don't generalise, USYD and UNSW is not the be all and end all of a law degree.

Brainwashed I say.

Nice!

 

[Triangulum]

Hahahahaha! You are very pretencious. I'm starting a new position at Mallesons Stephes and Jacques in February and I go to UTS.

Don't generalise, USYD and UNSW is not the be all and end all of a law degree.

Brainwashed I say.

You're going to be working at Mallesons, you've been studying law for years and you don't know the name of the firm?

Mallesons Stephen Jaques, not Mallesons Stephes and Jacques.