• Congratulations to the Class of 2024 on your results!
    Let us know how you went here
    Got a question about your uni preferences? Ask us here

UTS introduces DUFFS (1 Viewer)

braindrainedAsh

Journalist
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
4,268
Location
Sydney
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
UTS council apparently voted today and introduced undergrad full fee places for local students.

I am sketchy on the details (everyone is because they did it fairly secretly to quash protests) but I will post up more details as I get them.

What do you think of this? Good or bad?
 

azn_spirit

...messed up...
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
69
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Very very shoddy, there was a small student protest today at UTS. Sneaky UTS had the Council Meeting secretly moved to Kuring-gai just to get away from potential protests. not to mention them voting during exams so that we'll be too busy to care. Damn this is such a fked up move by UTS i swear.

Really man, this is a bad move, university degrees should be about opportunity not about the size of your daddies' wallet. Really before you know it UTS cut-off will skyrocket especially for Law, where 50% of places will be allocated to full-fee, hence 1 in 2 ppl sitting in a law lecture room paid their way into uni. >< really fked up. Really if I were to do the HSC this year, and find out that UTS cutoff had rised to the point that with my current uai would not let me in. I would be very unhappy, if it wasn't for UTS being 100% hecs there would be no way i would have gotten in.
 

azn_spirit

...messed up...
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
69
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
This is what the Progressive Law Students Network gave out

The Dean of Law, Jill McKeough personally spoke to the UTS Vice-Chancellor about how she thinks upfront fees & $100,000 law degrees are GREAT, and are not inequitable at all! Jill also successfully withdrew upfront fees from the agenda of the Law Faculty Board, so we never got to discuss or decide on it (how convenient.) So much other dodgy stuff happened too....

Academic Board voted 37-20 in favour of upfront fees. The final step to introduce them is at University Council, next Monday 20th June. It’s being pushed through very quickly, without any consultation, without reason, and even without a proposal of how they intend to introduce it. And it’s being introduced in the middle of exams!

We are meeting at 8:30am on Monday 20th June in front of UTS Tower building, to go to the University Council meeting together. Not only are we demanding that upfront fees be eschewed for UTS, we are also demanding consultation, and a transparent decision-making process.


:::::: What are DUFF places? :::::::::
Domestic Undergraduate Full Fee-paying (DUFF) students will pay upfront to buy a place at UT$. The entry-level mark is lowered for students who have cash for UT$ coffers.

Under the proposed changes, 35% of UT$ students will be paying full deregulated fees. DUFF students won’t be paying the ‘cost’ of their education, they will be paying ‘whatever the market will bear’. Costs will likely range in excess of $100,000 for a degree. Loans are available for some students under the FEE-HELP scheme, but only up to $50,000 – utterly excluding students from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

::::::: University entry on ability to pay, rather than merit ::::::::
The introduction of DUFF places will entrench a university entry scheme based on ability to pay, rather than merit. DUFF further limits the ability of lower socio-economic students to access higher education – cementing the already limited demographic of UT$ students.

Last year, University Council, the highest decision-making body at UT$, hiked HECS fees by 25%. Whilst merit-based entrance is theoretically still possible, the fee increase is regarded to have already deterred students from less privileged backgrounds from tertiary education, fearful of accruing a $50,000 debt. Upfront fees are yet another barrier to participation in education.

::::::::: DUFF, Privatisation and Cementing a User-pays education system ::::::::::
The user-pays ideology is that only those who use a service should have to pay for it. User-pays principles are based on the assumption that we are all separate, rational, self-interested individuals who pursue the profit motive in every aspect of our lives.

UT$ Management and Brendan Nelson’s "user-pays" education policies are founded on the belief that the individual student is the prime beneficiary of the education. This fails to recognise the whole of society benefits by having a skilled workforce and a society of critical thinkers.

The rapid erosion of funding to high education has created a climate for UT$ management to 'rationalise' the introduction of a user-pays university system. Full fees for international students were first introduced, then postgraduate students, and now the charging of full fees for domestic undergraduate students.

If UT$ introduces DUFF places, they will be implementing the user-pays ideology of the Howard government. It will mean that UT$ no longer supports the idea of a public accessible university education, but an education system where those who can pay get to go, privileging the rich.

Education should be free and accessible to all, not commodified and privatised to a big business with $100,000 degrees. Students shouldn’t be forced to pay for the 5 billion dollar cuts to university funding under the Howard government. A university degree should not cost $100,000 because of poor financial management at UT$.

::::::::: VSU, Upfront fees, and Why We Need our Unions to Fight ::::::::
More than ever we need our student and staff unions. Not only are we under attack from 5 billion dollars funding cuts, but the Howard government wants to smash our unions too. These attempts to ban collective organising is part of instilling the user-pays individualisation of universities. We need our student unions to be organising and raising dissent to upfront fees. This dissent is exactly why the government wants to ban them. The same applies for their attempts to make universities put staff on individual workplace agreements.

Students will not stand by and see these attacks and cuts any longer. We say no to VSU. We say no to upfront fees. We say no to AWAs for staff members.

:::::::::::: Dodgy Decisions on June 20 at Univer$ity Council ::::::::::::
University Council plans to vote on the introduction of DUFF places on June 20. There is no proposal regarding how DUFF places would be introduced at UT$. UT$ Management has deliberately failed to indicate how it intends to deal with a potential 35% increase in student numbers, increased class sizes, or the need for more buildings and campus space. Management has not expressed how it will increase staffing or teaching loads to deal with increased student support needs.

The established decision-making processes of UT$ have been bypassed. Staff, students, advocacy bodies, even Faculty Boards have not been consulted. Access to public education should not be decided by a few greedy bureaucrats!

::::::::::: Get active! :::::::::::::::
The introduction of DUFF places will create a two-tiered education system: entrenching privilege, deterring students from low socio-economic families, and allowing entrance based upon social class and wealth. It advocates a long-term replacement of publicly funded places and open access to our university system. This is the complete and rapid destruction of public education.

The privatisation of education through user-pay principles, deregulation and corporatisation, acts further to make universities the domain of the privileged and powerful. It creates enormous barriers of access and despite the rhetoric of 'choice'. The real agenda is to shut out mass participation in education and to replicate the divide between the wealthy and oppressed.

As students, however, we have a choice as to whether we sit idly by as governments, UT$ administration and corporations attack our education; or whether we forge together and take action to defend and extend access to publicly funded education. Don't be a drone for the capitalist system, get active and get involved in the Education Action Group. Rise up and revolt, fight for free education for all.
 

Frigid

LLB (Hons)
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Messages
6,208
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
guys, while i'm all unhappy abt the dodgy council meeting, i fink introing full-fees for law is not a bad idea.

law-funding by the government is FUCKED (we pay HECS band 4, get funded the least) and much of the resources that we use are costly.

while cut-offs rising might not be a good thing, i know with more funds (from HECS-HELP) UNSW opened up more HECS places for law this year. with more money, there might be more HECS places, so the cut-offs won't rise by that much.
 

Not-That-Bright

Andrew Quah
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
12,176
Location
Sydney, Australia.
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
One thing you have to realise is that the increased full free places will lead to more funds to sponsor those people from "lower socio-economic backgrounds".
Campaigns against "full fee" are more about pulling other people down than helping people.
 
Last edited:

midnight

we used to be friends
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
292
Location
Treehouse
Gender
Female
HSC
2004
I suppose a lot of it is reasonable/valid. More funding is always good.
I just don't like the idea that people can pay their way in with a lower UAI. But I'm probably just being snobby. :p
 

Not-That-Bright

Andrew Quah
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
12,176
Location
Sydney, Australia.
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
But due to them paying their way in that has a net benefit of giving perhaps 1 other person who wouldn't have otherwise got a hecs place the chance to get that hecs place.

It's not as if full fee places take away from hecs places (tho in the short term I guess they may slightly), full fee places help to fund further hecs places =/
 

Riewe

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
250
Location
Lothlorien
Gender
Male
HSC
2003
azn_spirit said:
As students, however, we have a choice as to whether we sit idly by as governments, UT$ administration and corporations attack our education; or whether we forge together and take action to defend and extend access to publicly funded education. Don't be a drone for the capitalist system, get active and get involved in the Education Action Group. Rise up and revolt, fight for free education for all.
Indeed we do have a choice, and i choose to sit idly by. While it is a change from normal procedures, i don't see it as being the armageddon in relation to uni, so i am going to be a drone, and sit idly by, eating my capitalist (McDonalds) burgers, and chicken (which has been pumped up with steroids), as i enjoy the protests, and hopefully police beatings on the rowdy hippies that will provide ample entertainment
 

thejosiekiller

every me
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
2,323
Location
north shore./
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Frigid said:

law-funding by the government is FUCKED (we pay HECS band 4, get funded the least) and much of the resources that we use are costly.

yeah but another way to look at the hecs scheming is that future lawyers have more potential to earn a better income than other professionals

random thought
 

0o0

o0o
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
239
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
miss_gtr said:
so whats the difference between this and local fee?
what they're talking about IS local fee. it didnt exist at UTS before.
 
S

Shuter

Guest
SashatheMan said:
i hope u dont
Yeah, using that loophole would be as dodgy as using B Business/B Computing as a backdoor method to get into B Business.
 

Not-That-Bright

Andrew Quah
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
12,176
Location
Sydney, Australia.
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
The only problems with full fee places seem to be

a) They take away from hecs places
No they don't - in fact by giving more funding to universities it means that full fee places could actually increase the ammount of hecs places as has been the case in various other universities when they introduced full fee.

b) People will get into courses they're not smart enough for.
Doubtful - Full fee usually only gives a concession of 5 uai points. You also have to remember that they will be put under the exact same scrutiny as any other university student, and can fail units.

In conclusion
- Full fee places increase the ammount of Australians able to get into uni, both directly though allowing rich students to get into courses they may otherwise have not and indirectly through the increased funds going to a university that could mean the opening up of more hecs places.

- Full fee only decreases the cut-off by a maximum of 5 points, that's barely anything.

- Full fee costs ALOT, we're talking about >$100,000 for a degree here, the increased funds going into a university far outweigh any moral argument that it should be "fair".


Does anyone still have objections?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top