What would you change about the HSC and why? (1 Viewer)

Mathematica

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If you could, what would you change about the how the HSC works, how the courses are structures etc. and why?
I am looking for intelligent and constructive responses so if you are going to respond with 'nothing, it is perfect', please don't.
There are so many issues with the current system. I will list some:

1) The system is not FAIR. School assessments can be unfair, some schools have better teachers, students and learning environment than others, etc.
2) The courses are not structured properly. Physics is not real physics, so is chemistry. Too much rote-learning, etc.
3) The subjects are too easy which means studying will be boring.
4) The HSC papers do not test one's understansding of the subject but they test how well one can memorise and how well one can guess the marking criteria.
5) Some subjects, like maths extension 2 don't have a proper syllabus.
6) English is compulsory but it is very badly structured and useless to some people.
7) There are no government endorsed textbooks which means students don't have a reference source.

What I would do is the following:

1) Everyone should receive the same level of good quality education regardless of scores on standarised tests, socioeconomic backgrounds, location etc... this can be done by testing all teachers and making sure they they are well qualified for teaching and also intelligent. They must be passionate about their students, strict and mature. The government should ensured sustainable funding to ensure FREE education for all, i.e. take care of ALL costs of tuition, learning materials, text books, transportation, new equipment, new facilities, student counseling, etc. This way the teachers are able to focus on teaching and learning, and bringing new ideas and practices in schools.

2) Increasing the difficulty of the courses will not affect any one! The people who want to learn and who score top marks will be the same people who will score top marks if the courses are more difficult. There should be no years 11 and 12 but the HSC should be over two years and both should count towards the final mark. Exams are done every semester and all schools should do the same exams and these marks are counted towards the final mark. Each semester should be worth 12.5% and the final mark should be worth 50%. Each exam should be 5 hours long and the final should be 10 hours long but divided into two papers. This ensures that only the best students can get top marks. The courses should involve actually studying the subject properly, just like they are studied in university. I would make the following changes for the following subjects:

a) Mathematics: should have a proper syllabus and should be divided into two main sections: pure mathematics and applied mathematics just like in university. In pure mathematics algebra, calculus, analysis, combinatorics, geometry, topology and logic should be the main topics. In applied mathematics dynamical systems, differential equations, mathematical physics, probability, statistics and computing should be the main topics. The course should be called Mathematics and should have two government endorsed textbooks, one called Pure Mathematics and the other should be called Applied Mathematics. The textbooks should have a wide variety of of questions with varying difficulty and it should have complete and proper explanations of theory.

b) Science:
i) Physics: this should be proper physics not like the current garbage, and Mathematics should be a prerequisite for this! It should have one big textbook, also endorsed by the government and should be called Physics. Mechanics, electromagnetism, optics, vibrations and waves phenomena, quantum physics and relativity should be the main topics.
ii) Chemistry: this should be real chemistry, not just rote-learning. It should have one big textbook, also endorsed by the government and should be called Chemistry. Organic chemistry, inorganic chemistry, analytical chemistry, physical chemistry, biochemistry should be the main topics.

c) English: The course should be completely restructured and if necessary should be divided into two version, one for lawyers and artists and one for scientists, engineers, doctors etc. This should be made useful in the real world. Literary analysis shouldn't be the only topic taught in english. I am not an expert in english but I think this should be taught the same way it is taught in university.

3) There should be no competition and high school should be a level playing field. My idea about removing school assessments should contribute to this as removing school assessments means that cohort performance does not affect the students, the assessments are done every semester and they are written by the government which means they are fair and marked fairly.

4) Scaling should remain because subjects will be of varying difficulties.

5) Students should be able to complain if teachers are not teaching to the best of their ability or are being biased in class etc. and the government should look into the issue.

The course structure may sound difficult but it will be done over two years and exams will be every semester so it should be easier.
 
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RealiseNothing

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There should be no years 11 and 12 but they should be combined into one year.
What exactly do you mean by this? As in the year 11 and year 12 cohorts combine or the content over those 2 years gets crammed into 1 year? Because I don't see how either would work successfully.
 

Mathematica

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What exactly do you mean by this? As in the year 11 and year 12 cohorts combine or the content over those 2 years gets crammed into 1 year? Because I don't see how either would work successfully.
Edit:
There should be no years 11 and 12 but the HSC should be over two years and both should count towards the final mark.
 
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Sunners

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I'd either have with English
a) Make it non-compuslary
b) Have it not count if you do over 10 units and its not your best two
c) A restructure of the syllabus so some time is spent on how to write what you're supposed to write about as opposed to so much time on what to write full stop.

I think the schools thing, the 1st point raised, is important too, at the moment there isn't much one can do about that other than go to a better school at the moment, I do think that there is too great of an emphasis on scaling with subjects and schools, where some think if they go to a particular school or do certain subjects they can't get the marks they want. OK sure it'd be better to get 90 in 2U Maths than 95 in General but it'd be better to get 95 in General than only 30 in 2U. I understand some subjects have to be better regarded for ATAR purposes but right now scaling is just over-exaggerated.

Other than those two points there isn't that much wrong with the HSC.
 

omgiloverice

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I got to disagree on 5 hour tests, that is a nightmare not only for students but also schools and hsc markers. I reckon, there should be two, three hour tests. One on preliminary work and one on hsc, worth 40% and 60% respectively. The sciences should divided up into levels, one 'normal' and one advanced course for more talented and mathematically competent students. Physics and chemistry, needs to be less English and humanity based, as this servery puts talented international students at an disadvantage, and also 7 mark questions, such as 'access the medical impacts of a bioploymer' should be taken out completely.
As for physics courses, the old syllabus need to be brought back, I don't know why they discarded it. It suited all levels of mathematics and was rather challenging as well. Advanced physics courses, should be calculus based and all participants must be able to pass a basic calculus test at the end of year 10 in order for them to participate.
 

Mathematica

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I would like to know your opinions on my second point.
I personally think it is very good as by making it so that 'assessments' are made by the government truly makes the system fair and also reduces competition which is very stressful and eliminates the effect of cohort performance on students.
It is also a way to make the system a level playing field, which is what university is.
 

Sy123

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First I will form the subjects then the structure of schooling.

Mathematics: I disagree that it solely should be divided into Pure and Applied Mathematics. I think everyone should have proper access to a good Mathematics education which is why at least 2 units of Mathematics in my view should be compulsory (I will expand upon later).
I think there should be:

- General Mathematics 1U (as is now, catered to suit all students, minimum mathematics education one must undertake)
- Mathematics 2U (calculus based course, similar to how it is now), contains the Volumes from current MX2.

An abolishment of Mathematics Extension 1. I would rather this to be combined with Extension 2 knowledge. To make

- Specialist Mathematics 4U
Which would contain: All topics within Maths X1 and X2, schooling starts from the beginning of y11, an emphasis on rigour, more of a problem solving based course.
2U Mathematics is assumed knowledge (to be taught in tandem with 4U, but does not count towards ATAR).
Differential Equations should be included, Volumes should be taught in 2U.

- Applied Mathematics 1U
This can only be attempted by students doing 4U Maths, would have a great emphasis on Applied Maths, Probability Theory, Statistics (proper).

Which would in total make a student capable of 5 Units of maths.

English:

- English Standard 2U (minimum level, compulsory, should be structured as it is now, less emphasis on specific areas such as Visual)
- English Advanced 2U (compulsory if not doing Standard, should be structured as is now, less emphasis on specific areas such as Visual)

AOS should remain, and be 2 hours, with only an essay and creative writing.
Paper 2 should be as it is, 3 hours for the 3 modules.

- Literature Studies 1U (similar to Extension 1 English now)
- General Studies 1U (very similar to the General Studies 1U course pre-2001 syllabus change)
- Extension English 1U (exactly the same as Extension 2 English now)

- Visual Literature 1U (film-making, like Drama, emphasis on speaking)

One cannot do Visual Literature with General Studies.

So a maximum total of English units one can do is 5 units (same as Maths).

Other subjects:

- All mainstream subjects that don't currently have an extension should have one.
So this means 3U: Physics, Economics, Chemistry, Biology, Legal Studies, Business Studies

Whereby in each 3U course a more advanced mindset should be applied, in order to do 3U Physics, Economics or Chemistry, Mathematics 2U is a pre-requisite.
Rote learners should be punished.
All elective modules should be abolished at 2U level, an elective module is present at 3U level. Any 3U subject with Calculus or other Maths concepts involved should include Calculus being used.

- SDD:

Someone can comment on this better than I, but I guess the computing, logic that would be in Applied Math should be here instead.

==================

- The 10 Units system should remain, it is very successful in my opinion.
- NO subjects are compulsory to the ATAR
- At least 1U of Maths and 2U of English must be done.

5U Maths should be comprised of 2 papers, each 3 hours.
Literature Studies and General Studies 2 hours each.

==================

I think all courses should also examine year 11 content, however assessment that counts should start at year 12. Schools should be able to do anything they want within appropriate bounds, aligning will take care of 'unfairness'.

Government books, are not that great of an idea in my opinion, most of the time the private sector will perform better than the public sector, no doubt that even though there is a government textbook someone will publish a better book.

The problem with the ideas, are that they take way too much money to implement, there are a shortage of teachers in some subjects, so putting all teachers through a rigorous quality test will just lower the supply of teachers we have, which is never a good idea.
Unless you can change society's views and show that teaching is an incredibly noble profession and maybe increase the pay a bit, the number of teachers will sadly not increase that much.


I think that's all I have to say.
 

soloooooo

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I would make English more practical and more heavily weighted for atar.

I would also introduce mandatory drivers education like occurs in the US.
 
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This post reeks of a total lack of understanding with regards to so many systems. A super skewed and idealised product of some procrastination.

I mean...despite the fact of where we will actually get money to train teachers, develop work and sustain such high levels of spending, you have to realise that in the long run, the HSC means nothing. Students worth anything will learn things which are not covered in the HSC to advance their understanding, for example, in chem. The internet makes textbooks obsolete at the HSC level, with talented students seeking information readily. Such a system would only place a greater distance between the top and bottom. etc etc.

For those who really do want to be put into confines as to what to learn, you can always exercise your economic freedom and go to a private school offering the IB program instead of the HSC.
 
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WeaselPowa

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This post reeks of a total lack of understanding with regards to so many systems. A super skewed and idealised product of some procrastination.
I totally agree.

Also, you talk about reducing competition because it's stressful. Yet scenario number 2 sounds infinitely more stressful then anything I've ever heard of. Making assessments five hours long? Increasing the difficulty of courses so people that want to do well do well? Combining year 11 and 12 together?

People don't pull motivation out of their ass. It's hard enough to study hard for one year. But to study hard for two years on subjects with increased difficulty... I can almost imagine the people who just say "This system is ***"
 
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Also what is wrong with competition? You will be competing for your WHOLE life. Get used to it. Competing for marks, partners, jobs, money, housing - EVERYTHING.
 

Mathematica

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I totally agree.

Also, you talk about reducing competition because it's stressful. Yet scenario number 2 sounds infinitely more stressful then anything I've ever heard of. Making assessments five hours long? Increasing the difficulty of courses so people that want to do well do well? Combining year 11 and 12 together?

People don't pull motivation out of their ass. It's hard enough to study hard for one year. But to study hard for two years on subjects with increased difficulty... I can almost imagine the people who just say "This system is ***"
I did not make the thread to read your criticism of my ideas and opinion. Can't you read?
 
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Competition that is not 100% fair*
Life isn't fair either. Every competition is not equal. If it was, it might as well be up to luck.

I did not make the thread to read your criticism of my ideas and opinion. Can't you read?
Who cares what you made the thread for, I don't. You made a thread with a terrible idea, and people are discussing why it is terrible. That is the point of a forum.
 

Mathematica

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This post reeks of a total lack of understanding with regards to so many systems. A super skewed and idealised product of some procrastination.

I mean...despite the fact of where we will actually get money to train teachers, develop work and sustain such high levels of spending, you have to realise that in the long run, the HSC means nothing. Students worth anything will learn things which are not covered in the HSC to advance their understanding, for example, in chem. The internet makes textbooks obsolete at the HSC level, with talented students seeking information readily. Such a system would only place a greater distance between the top and bottom. etc etc.

For those who really do want to be put into confines as to what to learn, you can always exercise your economic freedom and go to a private school offering the IB program instead of the HSC.
I actually agree with you on that!
I think it is difficult for me to understand that since I am in year 12.
 

WeaselPowa

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I would like to know your opinions on my second point.
I personally think it is very good as by making it so that 'assessments' are made by the government truly makes the system fair and also reduces competition which is very stressful and eliminates the effect of cohort performance on students.
It is also a way to make the system a level playing field, which is what university is.
Oh for the love of god.

Maybe you should learn to read your own posts.
 

moocow920

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wow, that is some serious procrastination...
5 hour assessments, two years of assessments counting for final results and harder courses seem like excellent ways to produce burntout, miserable students stripped of any love for learning they once had, and prevent the success of those who mature slower and are not ready for full on assessment in year 11 to me
 

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