Where do you stand? (2 Viewers)

Where do you stand?


  • Total voters
    353

volition

arr.
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
1,279
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Aye, but basic economics at university is riddled with assumptions which are hard to maintain both empirically and philosophically: rationality, (near) perfect knowledge, fixed equilibrium, path independent outcomes, etc = bogus science (versus irrationality, uncertainty, multiple shifting equilibria with path dependency and a touch of chaos).
Just FYI, most of these assumptions are applied in other streams of economic thought, but they generally aren't applied within the austrian position.

Perfect Knowledge - this is not at all the case, in fact, the reason markets are a good solution is because they do well at dealing with the fact that we have imperfect information. Hayek wrote about this sort of thing in "The Fatal Conceit".

Rationality - "rationality" as an assumption in lots of the non-austrian economics/finance literature is very different to the sort of rationality that austrian economics refers to. 'Rationality' within Austrian economics literature means purposive behaviour, whether the means chosen to attain the purpose are appropriate or not. Austrian economics is constructed based on the axiom that "Humans Act", not that "Humans always economise perfectly" or whatever.

Uncertainty - Austrian economics generally teaches that the uncertainty of the future is the reason humans have to make decisions and act upon them, so the existence of uncertainty doesn't discredit austrian economics because it is already included in the framework.

Path Dependency - True cases of path dependency are few and far between, and tbh this type of criticism of markets tends to fall prey to the Nirvana fallacy. So the criticism here is that "The market doesn't always choose the best technology/path" - but you have to also prove that the government bureaucrat would make a better selector. The problem is that doing this ignores the economic calculation problem, so the government bureaucrat has even less information to make the decision with and not a great deal of incentive to choose carefully.

Generally there is some feature that the consumers value about the product they end up choosing. for eg. QWERTY may have been chosen just for compatibility's sake, VHS might have won out over Betamax because it had a longer tape length.

Just felt like clearing these up for anyone who might be reading the thread and thinking the conditions mentioned actually work against the idea of having free markets.
 

KFunk

Psychic refugee
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
3,323
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Path Dependency - True cases of path dependency are few and far between, and tbh this type of criticism of markets tends to fall prey to the Nirvana fallacy. So the criticism here is that "The market doesn't always choose the best technology/path" - but you have to also prove that the government bureaucrat would make a better selector. The problem is that doing this ignores the economic calculation problem, so the government bureaucrat has even less information to make the decision with and not a great deal of incentive to choose carefully.
Just to check that we are on the same page - I had something like hysteresis in mind (i.e. where the system is not organised around a fixed [perhaps a priori] equilibrium point, but instead operates in historical time with responsiveness to historical conditions).

On the economic calculation problem - this loses its teeth for me given the tendency towards monopoly in many markets, in which case prices are, in part, similarly determined by the few and powerful (no doubt there are upper limits to what they can set based on consumer behavior, but the same effectively holds for governments). Of course, with respect to monopoly you can reply that governments are to blame for interfering inappropriately in the market or that the problem will be sorted out by external competition or some other force, but these remain conjectures which, as best as I can tell, simply do not prove that monopoly capitalism will naturally disappear in the free market setting. I appreciate that economists are limited in the style of argument they can use, and that a theoretical approach is often necessitated by the impossibility of running randomised controlled trials, but the historical tendency towards monopoly is an important piece of empirical data which I do not feel is sufficiently explained by most free marketeers (they offer explanations, no doubt, but they tend to be mired in speculation).
 

Planck

Banned
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
741
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

[youtube]mVh75ylAUXY[/youtube]

Hat Tip: SylvesterBr
 

SylviaB

Just Bee Yourself 🐝
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,897
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

wait wut

I stuffed up the tags didn't I
 

KFunk

Psychic refugee
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
3,323
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

...

Hat Tip: SylvesterBr
Haha, brilliant video, albeit scary (what to do when an individual claims the existence of class conflict --> react violently?).
 

Planck

Banned
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
741
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Haha, brilliant video, albeit scary (what to do when an individual claims the existence of class conflict --> react violently?).
Waf and I had a long discussion about how it promoted McCarthyism.
 

Lentern

Active Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
4,980
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Well then you agree that people can enjoy tabacco?
No I don't. I agree that that satisfying an addiction and enjoyment can be derived from the same action that does not mean that simply satisfying the addiction in itself is enjoyment.
 

Planck

Banned
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
741
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

No I don't. I agree that that satisfying an addiction and enjoyment can be derived from the same action that does not mean that simply satisfying the addiction in itself is enjoyment.
Would you say your primary political philosophy derives from your incredible aspergers or your idiotic Catholicism?
 

Lentern

Active Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
4,980
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Would you say your primary political philosophy derives from your incredible aspergers or your idiotic Catholicism?
Aren't aspies normally particularly good at something?
 

KFunk

Psychic refugee
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
3,323
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Aren't aspies normally particularly good at something?
Not really. Media/cognitive bias entails that the savants tend to be the ones that are described and popularised. (unless, of course, you want to extend the label 'skill' to things like a fascination with the sound of opening soda cans)
 

Planck

Banned
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
741
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Not really. Media/cognitive bias entails that the savants tend to be the ones that are described and popularised. (unless, of course, you want to extend the label 'skill' to things like a fascination with the sound of opening soda cans)
Explain's Lentern's fascination with the sound Steve Smith makes when he licks his lips!
 

Venetiad

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
97
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Economic Scale: -2.25 (Socialist)
Lib/Auth Scale: 1.23 (Authoritarian)

Nothing major, just my personal views pushing the bars a little.
 

yoddle

is cool
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
1,129
Location
nowhere man
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Very very left libertarian, just as i thought.
 

Rockyroad

Banned
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
461
Location
The Gong.
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

go to the first page, press the link. copy your score into the box and wollah
 

alex.leon

not an ATARd
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
592
Location
ya mum
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Economic Left/Right: -3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33



Wow, I just got compared to the Dalai Lama.

Shhhhweeeet.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)

Top