Why won't selective schools+top private schools have more subject accelerations (3 Viewers)

[eyeseeyou]

There are a large number of students who are performing beyond well and are considered for acceleration, however not all selective and top private schools offer subject acceleration. Discuss

 

[InteGrand]

Bump someone please answer

Some potential reasons could be that they see no point in it or because certain subjects are really popular in Year 12 anyway and if they offered it in Year 11 too there may be too many students doing them. Or maybe they think by accelerating certain subjects, it would reduce their Band 6 percentage (compared to if they didn't allow acceleration for those subjects).

 

[cookie_dough]

not all well performing students may want acceleration, not enough demand for accelerated courses

 

[eyeseeyou]

Some potential reasons could be that they see no point in it or because certain subjects are really popular in Year 12 anyway and if they offered it in Year 11 too there may be too many students doing them. Or maybe they think by accelerating certain subjects, it would reduce their Band 6 percentage (compared to if they didn't allow acceleration for those subjects).

No, introducing acceleration actually increases the Band 6 percentages in most cases because a lot of the accelerants beat those year 12 non accelerants

 

[eyeseeyou]

not all well performing students may want acceleration, not enough demand for accelerated courses

Acceleration is more for the gifted, if you look at Sydney Grammar, they are one of the top performing schools in maths and they don't have accelerated maths at all

 

[cookie_dough]

Acceleration is more for the gifted, if you look at Sydney Grammar, they are one of the top performing schools in maths and they don't have accelerated maths at all

ok defined "gifted", because i don't believe "intelligence" is fixed. ( + it is also strange that intelligence seems to mean getting good marks). Sure, whatever natural ability, there is also work behind the marks of high achieving students (whether these people are well performing or.. "gifted")

and are you saying there arent enough people that you consider "gifted" in the schools which dont offer acceleration, or that "gifted" students are missing out by being in schools not offering acceleration?

 

[eyeseeyou]

ok defined "gifted", because i don't believe "intelligence" is fixed. ( + it is also strange that intelligence seems to mean getting good marks). Sure, whatever natural ability, there is also work behind the marks of high achieving students (whether these people are well performing or.. "gifted")

and are you saying there arent enough people that you consider "gifted" in the schools which dont offer acceleration, or that "gifted" students are missing out by being in schools not offering acceleration?

A high achiever who can pick up on things easily, once he/she reads something he/she will understand without hesitation

I'm saying "gifted" students are missing out on their chance of acceleration

 

[Nailgun]

No, introducing acceleration actually increases the Band 6 percentages in most cases because a lot of the accelerants beat those year 12 non accelerants

not really
the kids who accelerate would have beaten their own grades as well

A high achiever who can pick up on things easily, once he/she reads something he/she will understand without hesitation

I'm saying "gifted" students are missing out on their chance of acceleration

consider that accelerants also have to do the course in a lot less time

 

[D94]

No, introducing acceleration actually increases the Band 6 percentages in most cases because a lot of the accelerants beat those year 12 non accelerants

Do you realise that those students who accelerated simply plug up the gap made by accelerated students in the cohort above? Acceleration probably made little difference in them achieving a Band 6 - it might assist in them getting a higher Band 6 (97-100 range), but it's likely they would have gotten at least 90 had they not accelerated since they are already very capable students.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Do you realise that those students who accelerated simply plug up the gap made by accelerated students in the cohort above? Acceleration probably made little difference in them achieving a Band 6 - it might assist in them getting a higher Band 6 (97-100 range), but it's likely they would have gotten at least 90 had they not accelerated since they are already very capable students.

Yeah so what? What if they do bad in year 11 and they repeat the course in year 12 because they were under performing in an accelerated subject in year 11?

 

[cem]

One of the issues for schools is actually timetabling of students across grades. My school has had one student accelerate in Maths from Year 7 but then decided not to do so again as it forced too many timetabling issues resulting in years when Year 9 and Year 10 for instance only had Maths on two days a week - with two hours on those two days or they couldn't fit in the senior courses with four lessons a week.

 

[eyeseeyou]

One of the issues for schools is actually timetabling of students across grades. My school has had one student accelerate in Maths from Year 7 but then decided not to do so again as it forced too many timetabling issues resulting in years when Year 9 and Year 10 for instance only had Maths on two days a week - with two hours on those two days or they couldn't fit in the senior courses with four lessons a week.

That is an issue, however can't they run classes after school/before school for the accelerated students?

At my friend's school there was some guy (last year) who did 3U and 4U in year 11, they had a lot of timetabling issues with him, he ended up doing 3U and 4U 3 periods a week (iirc)

 

[D94]

Yeah so what? What if they do bad in year 11 and they repeat the course in year 12 because they were under performing in an accelerated subject in year 11?

...and those who under-perform in the cohort above will repeat as well.

You haven't demonstrated how there is an increase in Band 6 students. Designing scenarios that work in your favour are easily counteracted by the fact that whatever can apply to this grade, could apply to the grade above.

 

[cem]

That is an issue, however can't they run classes after school/before school for the accelerated students?

At my friend's school there was some guy (last year) who did 3U and 4U in year 11, they had a lot of timetabling issues with him, he ended up doing 3U and 4U 3 periods a week (iirc)

Timetabling issues isn't only about fitting periods into the set school day but also includes the number of periods a teacher teachers regardless of when those lessons are held. Teachers have a set number of periods they teach. Teaching 3 - 4 hours off-line for one or two students means that teacher isn't able to teach another full class of 25 - 30 students - a poor use of resources.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Timetabling issues isn't only about fitting periods into the set school day but also includes the number of periods a teacher teachers regardless of when those lessons are held. Teachers have a set number of periods they teach. Teaching 3 - 4 hours off-line for one or two students means that teacher isn't able to teach another full class of 25 - 30 students - a poor use of resources.

Cem, I know at schools where they have subject restrictions, students who do not get into their desired subject start complaining (at least 10 complain and at least 20 wish to do the subject). In this case should another new class be created or what? I know in my friend's school's case, there were 5 people who complained and at least 15 who wanted to do they subject and the deputy principal didn't allow to have another extension maths class

 

[eyeseeyou]

Also another interesting thing is that selective schools such as Fort Street, Sydney Boys/Girls, Penrith and Girraween have accelerated subjects such as accelerated maths and accelerated chemistry but why not introduce it into schools such as James Ruse and Baulko who are "more gifted"

I was told from a friend that the reason why Sydney Tech doesn't have accelerated mathematics is because their maths faulty doesn't want their kids to burn out on excessive maths but isn't it only for one year?

Interestingly, I was told Canley Vale high was planning to get rid of its accelerated maths program and that this year or last year was the last year it was going to be implemented

Thoughts?

 

[prxyal007]

I know someone from James Ruse who said accelerating math was a terrible idea because math requires foundational learning... so building up year by year. If you accelerate you lose a year. However our school does accelerate math.

 

[cem]

Cem, I know at schools where they have subject restrictions, students who do not get into their desired subject start complaining (at least 10 complain and at least 20 wish to do the subject). In this case should another new class be created or what? I know in my friend's school's case, there were 5 people who complained and at least 15 who wanted to do they subject and the deputy principal didn't allow to have another extension maths class

Running that extra class though would put a strain on the rest of the staffing of the school which must cover the minimum hours of junior classes. That extra Maths class in Year 11 for instance may not be possible within the teaching load for the school and schools are staffed on number of students with the resultant number of classes that must be covered. 100 hours in Maths for each year 7 - 10 is Mandatory and they have to be covered first and then decide how many senior Maths classes a school can run taking account of how many they are already running in Year 12.

I am always telling my History students that the last class the school will decide if it runs is History Extension - as all the junior classes in HSIE and existing senior history classes have to be covered. IF we then have two free periods (our classes are an hour each) for the History teachers then it can run. Some years we are able to run it and then other years we can't. It has nothing to do with the number of students but with the loads of the teachers and having to cover the mandatory hours of the junior years.

 

[Soulful]

Also another interesting thing is that selective schools such as Fort Street, Sydney Boys/Girls, Penrith and Girraween have accelerated subjects such as accelerated maths and accelerated chemistry but why not introduce it into schools such as James Ruse and Baulko who are "more gifted"

I was told from a friend that the reason why Sydney Tech doesn't have accelerated mathematics is because their maths faulty doesn't want their kids to burn out on excessive maths but isn't it only for one year?

Interestingly, I was told Canley Vale high was planning to get rid of its accelerated maths program and that this year or last year was the last year it was going to be implemented

Thoughts?

if you had the ability to accelerate the maths faculty at ruse would rather you work on olympiad maths

olympiad medals more important than HSC to them

 

[eyeseeyou]

if you had the ability to accelerate the maths faculty at ruse would rather you work on olympiad maths

olympiad medals more important than HSC to them

Why so?

Isn't the HSC important to ruse at all?

What does the Maths Faculty at Ruse aim to do with their maths students?

If they don't have the chance to accelerate, then what's the point because there are a lot of gifted students who miss out on the opportunity to have an academic challenge in high school