Workout/Gym Plan Questions (1 Viewer)

[AntiJap]

Hey guys

Since it's holidays, I've been gyming almost everyday? Is this bad for my body? During uni I usually gym on alternate days so around 3-4 days a week, should I maintain this throughout the year? I'm trying to gain more muscle on mainly my upper body but also making my muscles more cut (I don't want big and flabby).

I almost never do legs at gym and only do 10 min run and 10 min cycle. I've tried squats before but they hurt my neck somehow. I read somewhere that to get a built upper body you need to do lower body build up legs, quads etc so how would you achieve that without squats?

Anyone have any exercises for strengthening the back and at low risk so I don't damage it whilst I'm doing the exercise?

Currently at the gym I usually just do:
- Dumbell Curls
- Barbell '21s' Curl
- Dumbell Chest Press
- Dumbell Shoulder Press
- Tricep pulldowns
- Occasional benching (only when I go with friends)
- Running+Cycling
- Ab Machine (How would I get more defined abs?)
- Occasionally dumbell shoulder raises

What do you guys think? What exercises should I cut out or add?
What are you guys' workout routines for guys.

Also do protein shakes after workout actually help your body? If so how do they?

Finally do dumbell curls give you back problems? Because lately I've been having a few niggles near my lower back/buttock.

Thanks guys.

 

[inasero]

gosh you have so many questions! i'll share with you what i've come across on the web

- probably doesn't do much harm to do go to the gym everyday but you want to mix cardio with weights cos it's better for your overall health, and also you want to wait at least 48h before working out the same muscle group to give your body time to grow, too many weight sessions can be counterproductive

- yes if you look in my other thread you'll see i didn't include lower leg exercises, but it's true that they help upper body development. Squats and deadlifts seem to be the most popular exercises, but don't go all out hardcore like powerlifters- start with low weights but maintain perfect form and the exercises shouldn't hurt, then build your way up. If your shoulders are still sore try wrapping a towel or foam padding around the bar

- i'd say you have too many isolation exercises, i made the same mistake thinking more exercises = more development, but all it does is to tire you out faster. try compound movements which will target several muscle groups at once and which mimic the body's natural movements- e.g. like bent over BB row for back development

- abs: simply put, spot reducing doesn't work so your number one priority is to cut inches from the waistline through dieting and cardio sessions. try including a wide variety of ab exercises which target different parts of your abs (e.g. crunches for upper abs, buttock raises for loewr abs)

- back exercises very important, try hyperextensions on a roman chair or flat bench, or "supermans" on the floor, as your back extensors get stronger you can do the exercises holding weight plates

- yes protein shakes do work after exercises, in fact it's the bast time to take it since your body is depleted of it's glycogen stores- just make sure that you include plenty of simple sugars (table sugar or soft drink will do) to help the muscles absorb the protein from your shake.

- no they shouldn't- are you using perfect form? e.g. don't arch your back backwards in order to try and lift heavier weights, keep your upper arm pinned to your side

have a look at bodybuilding.com- very good site highly recommended

 

[NinjaSauce]

Stuff you should forget Inasero said, this is bad (or not 100%) advice:

- "Don't go hardcore like powerlifters", Ok, I'll agree that singles, doubles and maybe triples are not in your bag at this time, but lift heavy, the 5-7 range is good for deadlifts if bodybuilding. Also, the most successful bodybuilders are generally the strongest bodybuilders. You'll have to up the weight eventually.

- "If your shoulders are still sore try wrapping a towel or foam padding around the bar". He said his neck hurt, not shoulders. Anyways, Towels and the maxi-pad that the gym provides is a bad, bad, bad thing. It is LESS safe than without. If you can not 'rack' the weight on your back (hi-bar, or low-bar style), you simply don't have enough muscle to do so (or you're a pansy).

- "Wait 48 hours between muscle groups to give your body time to grow". Yes and no. More accurately would be: "Give yourself time to recover from your training". Depending on his set-rep schemes, intensity, genetic make up, and training history - rest periods differ from person to person. I used to deadlift & clean and press 5 days a week! ATM, i pull up 6 days a week!

-------------------------------------------------------------

- Gyming everyday highly depends on how you are training and your capacity to recover.

- You should be training you legs. They make up 60-70% of your body's muscle (Don't believe me? Imagine your upper-body with the organs and rib cage removed... yeah, not so big now, eh?). The Hormonal response from compound exercises is very pronounced, and required to get bigger. You don't have to squat, but it is the Queen of exercises (king = deadlift).

- As for a sore neck in squatting... that is a little weird, but let me try and help:
Make sure you are looking up when you squat. Looking down is one of the most major problems people have when squatting. Your back follows your neck, and your neck your head. Wear a baseball cap backwards in you need to, and hold the 'bill' against your back.
If not that, maybe you are positioning it wrong. When you bunch your back together, you should have a 'shelf' of muscle which forms on which you can load the weight onto. if you don't have it... well... go deadlift for a while and come back 10kg heavier.
If you neck and bar placement is good, then perhaps it is you're leaning too far forward (thats TOO FAR, you have to lean forward a bit when squatting, but there is a limit to everything), and the bar is rolling onto your bones at the bottom of neck/top of thoracic (upper) vertebrae. This is a form issue, and i can not help without seeing it. Talk to the biggest guy in the gym (trust me, if your nice, he'll help you!), or a trainer.

- Lower back pain... well, you ain't helping it by not doing anything for your lower back or legs. The powerhouses of your body. Curls, if done poorly, can hurt your back. massive (uncontrolled) cheating can bend you over backwards. With curls, control is the key, and cheating is fine, as long as you don't bend backwards while doing so.

- Protein shakes work with simple carbs. Don't just mix up simple protein with water, you need the sugars.

- No amount of crunches, side bends, yoga balls, or any crazy ab exercise will give you abs. Abs are made in the kitchen, and you simply have to diet down to get them. Trust me though, being big and strong with blurred (or missing) abs is better than small, skinny and weak with hyper-defined abs.

- Missed the 'how the strengthen lower-back' question... DEADLIFT. But get your form checked, and start light (60kg). Most people in your gym don't deadlift, and you will stand out. But then again, most people are small and have back trouble.

 

[inasero]

yes wouldn't we all like to lift heavy eventually? my point was that it's more important to start off with a lighter weight while maintaining perfect form and work your way up gradually

as for doing compound exercises like deadlifts or clean or press i would say every day is definitely too much regardless of whether or not your body has the regenerative abilities of superman- the majority of literature and anecdotal evidence out there says to rest for at least 48h before working out the same muscles- unless you're doing isolation exercises in an upper/lower body split in which case it'd be okay to lift every day.

though you don't have to take it from me, i'm just starting out myself- this is what i've understood from numerous articles on bodybuilding.com you can ask around for advice.

btw ninjasauce i got the two week starter membership- should be getting PT sessions soon!

 

[AntiJap]

Wow, thanks for the massive replys guys.

I guess I'll have to change my routine drastically. I'm now thinking of going 3-4 days a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday and probably one weekend day either Saturday or Sunday and hence rest in the inbetween days. It's just that gym membership costs so much, so this holidays I've probably had the 'make the most of it' mentality.

About the form thing you guys are right, I do arch my back sometimes when doing curls and whatnot and that's probably what's causing my pain. I'm thinking of changing that by lower the weight of the dumbbells/barbells and just focussing on form for maybe a week or two until I get into the habit of good form and build from there.

Yeah, I guess the only thing stopping me from working legs is my inability to do those squats, deadlifts etc. I'll probably ask a those trainers at the gym for some tips. Do these exercises all involve lifting those massive barbells?

More compound exercises you say? How do I know which ones to cut out and which ones to add in? Will I get bigger at the same rate doing compound exercises?

As for protein, how do you guys manage to get your protein intake? Do you buy those massive buckets and then mix it with milk?

Thanks!

 

[NinjaSauce]

Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat is a solid timetable.

I'll be using it myself when Uni goes back. Squat/leg day, heavy press day, Deadlift/back day, and a lighter press day Saturday.

You have plenty of compounds for your upper body. Do some squats and deadlifts, or somethign involving legs. Running, or basketball, or whatever doesn't count as leg work.

As for protien, get most of it from food. I just eat alot of meat. But i also have 2 shakes a day, and i buy a big 4.5kg bucket from purenutrition.com - works well.



Inasero,

I got the 2 week Men's Health membership too! I'll be using it after next week! I also have another 2 week membership card to use (i 'won' it somewhere), which is a different comp, so i can use it too. Well... I better be able to!

And the issue about training every 48 hours really depends on what work you were doing. If you blast you muscles to high heaven, yes, you may need 48 hours (or more!). But when i was training deadlift 5 days a week, i was on doing 2 sets of 5 a day. And my second set was 10% lighter than the first! Its a little complicated, but you 'cycle' your weights up and down and have easy weeks, and hard weeks, etc. Bulgarian weightlifters where famous for training 3 times a day! Every day! And the Russian bench press team used to have 8 bench sessions a week.

 

[inasero]

yeah what Ninjasauce said, i'd also add bench press they're a great compound exercise

as for protein, in my experience the protein from proteindirect.com.au is the cheapest you'll find anywhere and the quality is decent too, i always get my protein there and mix with milk (just for the extra protein, and i find it doesn't taste as nice when mixed with water or juice). of course you should be getting the bulk of your protein from fish and meats cos they have different amino acid profiles, try to have as balanced a diet as possible

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Hi.

I wonder if I can bring anything new to this thread.

Exercising legs is brutally important. This is because the biggest muscles in your body are in your legs, which means when you exercise them, the biggest share of testosterone gets released into your body, which can be used to build up muscle where-ever it's needed most. Never forget this, a workout or a split routine without leg exercises is inefficient.

In regards to being flabby, this is not something you want to worry about. Your body likes having an equilibrium of fat and muscle. If you have too little fat, your body will constantly be stressed trying to gain more fact, instead of concentrating about gaining more muscle. The optimal body fat % for muscle growth is around 15-20%. You should build muscle and lose weight in bulking / cutting cycles, instead of trying to do both at once (unless you are just starting, which I see you are not).

In regards to strong, toned abs, I have a few things to say.
1. The visibility of your abs depends mainly on the amount of fat you have in between the muscle and the skin. Because every individual is different with regard to where their body decides to store fat, not everyone can get the same results. You should build up your abs first, and then lose the fat, not both at once.

2. Your abs (8 packs of them) is all one muscle. It's physically impossible to exercise any part of it individually or more than the rest.

3. The best exercises for abs, are again compound exercises such as squats and deadlifts. The reason for this, is because it takes enormous core tension to squat and deadlift heavy weights, providing a very good ab workout. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do other core exercises however.

Full sets of Chest Press, Shoulder Press and Bench should not be done together, as they are all intensive in similar and same muscle groups.

If you think squats are hard, try to do Bulgarian squats, they are even harder. However I highly recommend them. Note, you may be very very sore after the first time you do them, for a few days.

In regards to squats hurting your neck, make sure you have a good posture while doing them. If you have a squat rack at your gym, use that.

The best exercises I can think for strengthening your back are, deadlifts and pullups (outwards grip). I also believe that diamond pushups are a great back exercise, but I haven't seen this confirmed anywhere (not that I've looked.).
Speaking of diamond pushups, I recommend you use them instead of tricep pulldowns, as that is a horrible exercise.

Yeah, I guess the only thing stopping me from working legs is my inability to do those squats, deadlifts etc. I'll probably ask a those trainers at the gym for some tips. Do these exercises all involve lifting those massive barbells?

Not massive, just whatever feels right for you. You don't need to use the same weight for all exercises.

More compound exercises you say? How do I know which ones to cut out and which ones to add in? Will I get bigger at the same rate doing compound exercises?

Split your body in 3; legs, core, upper - and make sure each muscle group there gets a workout. Some people break it down even deeper, but I ain't that smart.

Good exercises for upper:
Pullups / Chinups
Bench Press / Military Press / Shoulder Press

Good exercises for core:
Situp (performed correctly), Russian Twists, Reverse Crunches, etc. There's actually a lot of stuff here, but the core really benefits from full-body compound exercises like squats and deadlifts, as I mentioned earlier.

As for protein, how do you guys manage to get your protein intake? Do you buy those massive buckets and then mix it with milk?

Personally, I don't worry about it too much. I'm not sure what other people eat, but I make sure I eat meat every day, fish and chicken breast are best. On workout days I always have several eggs (in fact I always like to have eggs, when possible. Eggs have the most easily extracted protein out of anything you can eat). I also drink a lot of milk every day, and cereal/porridge always helps.

 

[inasero]

hey starcraftmazter,

Your abs (8 packs of them) is all one muscle. It's physically impossible to exercise any part of it individually or more than the rest

it's true that they're all one muscle (rectus abdominis), however it is possible to put selective emphasis on certain parts of the muscle through different exercises, like crunches for upper abs and reverse decline crunch for lower abs. lol i used to do hundreds of decline sit-ups and now my upper abs are developed disproportionately. That said, you can't completely "isolate" parts of a muscle as when you're working out the whole muscle gets worked out to a certain extent. What that in mind it's important to do a wide range of ab exercises and stick to the diet and cardio!

forget all those ab gimmicks out there, here's the complete "How To Get Washboard Abs" in a paragraph, and for free!

 

[NinjaSauce]

Guys... Stop with all the ab exercise talk.

Heavy deadlifts, squats, and overhead press (1 arm and 2 arm) are all you need for abs.

to SEE the abs - Diet.

Abs are made in the kitchen. period.

 

[inasero]

whats the difference between an overhead and military press, or are they the same thing? also when you're doing standing military presses, r u supposed to lean back at all?

 

[NinjaSauce]

First off... Your over-analyzing. Military press, 'overhead press', push press, jerk, whatever you wanna do. Most people will concentrate on one of the first two.

But i'll bite:

Strict Military press involves tight knees, hips/butt, and very minor movement of your upper body (so to just get the bar past your face.) If you are a hyper-old-school-mega-weirdo purist. Your ankles are TOGETHER touching. As if you were standing at attention in the military (hence the name).

'overhead press', or simply 'Press' (the 'bench press' is a variation of the 'press', people have only used benches for like 50-60 years. Prior to that strongmen only did overhead.). Or, another name is 'Olympic Press' because it used to be the third Olympic event (after Snatch, and Clean and Jerk), but was removed due to being very, very, very hard to judge. The Olympic press is the same as a Military, but you are allowed to arch your back as much as you want. You must have a strong back for this exercise.
Here is a picture of why it was removed from the Olympic games - It got crazy:

It is like a standing bench press. Need a very strong back indeed!

The Push press is where you dip at the start of press, and 'throw' the weight up above your head. You press out the final part (and use the momentum to help.) Obviously, you can use more weight in this.

The Jerk is what you see in Olympics. The throw it like a push press, but then duck down under the weight before it reaches the top and 'catch' it. Again, even more weight can be used. This is a technically demanding drill though.

 

[quik.]

Please get proper technique coaching for olympic lifting.

With all lifts you should be ensuring proper form, but you can really fuck yourself up learning to powerclean etc on your own.

 

[NinjaSauce]

I agree whole heartedly.

Do not mess around with Olympic lifts without a coach.

I was simply explaining. People should stick to just a standard military or overhead press.

 

[Pace_T]

Guys... Stop with all the ab exercise talk.

Heavy deadlifts, squats, and overhead press (1 arm and 2 arm) are all you need for abs.

to SEE the abs - Diet.

Abs are made in the kitchen. period.

finally

i thought i was the only one who believed this!

 

[Starcraftmazter]

it's true that they're all one muscle (rectus abdominis), however it is possible to put selective emphasis on certain parts of the muscle through different exercises, like crunches for upper abs and reverse decline crunch for lower abs. lol i used to do hundreds of decline sit-ups and now my upper abs are developed disproportionately.

Yeh, some people say this, and I've always been interested in that. It's at times like this, that I wish I studied....whatever I need to study to know for sure.

Have you considered however, that your upper abs have more chance of "standing out" because of their positioning in the body, and the fact that your lowest row of abs is not the same as the upper ones, in that it's longer and goes down, rather than being perfectly square?
Also, that there could be more fat down there.

That's pretty much the only theory I could come up with. I'm pretty sure I've seen both people with a good 4-6 pack and an 8pack (I think only/mostly bodybuilders would).

 

[NinjaSauce]

Also, with top bodybuilders, it is less noticeable due to having very large and thick pecs. The bigger they are, the more they would hide the abs sticking out.

Guys, just remember. The male body was designed to 'get stuff done'. A thick waist is an asset to us from a strength point of view. And it will naturally increase as you get stronger.

 

[AntiJap]

Hey guys,

what do you all think of a gym plan like this:

MONDAY
- Cardio: 10 mins
- Dumbbell Warmup
- Benching
- Dumbbell Flys
- Cable Pecs
- Dumbbell Shoulder Press
- Tricep Pushdowns
- Cardio: 5mins
WEDNESDAY
- Cardio: 10 mins
- Dumbbell Warmup
- Deadlifts
- Barbell 21s
- Barbell forearms
- Abs crunches
- Cardio: 5mins
FRIDAY
- Cardio: 10 mins
- Dumbbell Warmup
- Squats
- Work legs
- Leg Curls to work calves
- Abs crunches
- Cardio: 5mins
SATURDAY/SUNDAY
- Back
- upper and lower


I based it around the three main exercises, bench press, deadlift and squats.

 

[NinjaSauce]

It is pretty 'meh', but just 1 immediate thing.

Upper Body

Lower body/back

Lower body

Full Body, Back

------> Sure, you'll be roaring to go for your ypper body, but you will fatigue quickly on the lower body. Spread things a little.
--------------------------

Just stick to traditional powerlifting schedule, Powerlift the big 3, and rep (bodybuild) with all the assistance exercises. Can't go wrong.

Mon - Squat
Wed - Bench/press
Fri - Deadlift
Sat - LIGHT bench press and GPP

2 upper body, 2 lower body. Due to the lowerbody's ability to handle things better, It can keep reasonably strong, just do a lighter day for you bench, and do GPP - General Phyical Prepareness. Or, real cardio. Drag things, push/pull things, thow things, etc. Sandbags, sleds, sprints, ninja-battles, dramatic explosions, whatever.

 

[jessied]

You're not doing much cardio, so I'm assuming your aim is to "gain" muscle mass rather than excercise your CV system.

Rather than excercise a specific body part i.e upper body on one day, mix it up and do 2 upper body, 1 abs and 2 lower body exercises in each session, as NinjaSource said you'll fatigue quickly by doing your workout the way you have planned.

Also make sure you're matching your exercise goals (e.g. strength, endurance, power) with number of reps and sets you're doing and most importantly how much weight you are lifting. If you don't do this it's almost a waste of time.