Young Liberals (2 Viewers)

[Enteebee]

Well not necessarily.

The only reason we have one now is because our universities have a standardised entry criteria. If you didn't have that you would find that different schools would find their own niches and we wouldn't be studying the same dumbed down crap.

But of course with things like the UAI the content needs to be standardised

What if schools want to teach kids creationism, racism, that the earth is really flat and in general just bad science? One of the great purposes of having such an education system is to create a population base with the intellectual ability to succeed. I don't particularly want kids growing up and not learning to some sort of a standard just because their parents belong to some religious sect or have turned out to be rather docile themselves.

 

[Enteebee]

Where are the other libertarians?

 

[gnrlies]

I'm not talking about free education in the tertiary sector, all I mean is with regard to the extra payments governments make to universities (hecs is a large portion of their funding, but obviously not all of it) ...

As for accountability, I agree it helps a little to make people pay for themselves, but for the most part I don't believe people feel as accountable to hecs as they do to car repayments, they just don't want to fail so they can get their degree and get a good job.

Well universities should be able to charge the fees they need in order to survive rather than relying on the govt. Why do you think australia has no world class universities? In the USA they have top quality schools because they can afford to pay world class academics, facilities etc etc. Here we have this notion that fees shouldn't exceed X amount of dollars. At the end of the day this limits our choice because we cannot go to Australia's equivalent of Harvard, or Cambridge because it doesn't exist!

 

[Enteebee]

Well universities should be able to charge the fees they need in order to survive rather than relying on the govt. Why do you think australia has no world class universities? In the USA they have top quality schools because they can afford to pay world class academics, facilities etc etc. Here we have this notion that fees shouldn't exceed X amount of dollars. At the end of the day this limits our choice because we cannot go to Australia's equivalent of Harvard, or Cambridge because it doesn't exist!

You do realise that the US spends much more public funds (% wise) on their universities than us right? You do also realise that in particular this funding is set by the states, of which those which reside the greatest universities (i.e. Massachusetts) are often higher taxing 'socialist' states.

 

[gnrlies]

You don't need government intervention to stop monopolies/oligopies? You really think if we stopped all regulation right now there wouldn't all of a sudden be corporations taking total advantage of their priviledged status in the marketplace? Tell me exactly why we wouldn't have oil cartels.

Well the stuff ive been checking out basically says that over the last 200 years a survey of cartels has shown that they have only lasted on average for around 8 years because the incentives to cheat are too strong (theyve been busted by its own members not by govt).

What Determines Cartel Success?
MC LEVENSTEIN, VY SUSLOW - Ann Arbor

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID299415_code020210670.pdf?abstractid=299415&mirid=2

The arguement follows on that you gotta do a cost benefit analysis to see whether the cost of something like the ACCC is worth the benefits accrued in speeding the process up...

In anycase I don't know enough about it to make a final judgement but its food for thought.

 

[JaredR]

Inside alex hawke
​

Alex Hawke...young, realistic and pro-Israel. He'd get my vote any day!

 

[gnrlies]

What if schools want to teach kids creationism, racism, that the earth is really flat and in general just bad science? One of the great purposes of having such an education system is to create a population base with the intellectual ability to succeed. I don't particularly want kids growing up and not learning to some sort of a standard just because their parents belong to some religious sect or have turned out to be rather docile themselves.

Well I hardly think thats a likely outcome. The majority of parents will send them to schools that reflect their own values, and the majority of parents arent racists or believe the earth is flat.

in anycase Im not necessarily talking about a complete removal of guidelines, but simply advocate that final year certificates in australia are incredibly dumbed down, unchallenging, and arent integrated into further study options available (e.g. why do we insist that students do english up until year 12 when the majority of graduates are not going on to study literature and it provides few soft skills that are useful anywhere else - remembering of course that the HSC course is about analysing texts and not gaining a working command of the english language)

 

[gnrlies]

Hang on. You're for the government providing careers now. Shouldn't private charity do this?

And yes I think its appropriate the government create incentives for people to go to uni. A more educated population is better for the economy and the prospect of a large debt may deter talented potential students from going to uni.

Carers... You misread me

 

[Enteebee]

in anycase Im not necessarily talking about a complete removal of guidelines, but simply advocate that final year certificates in australia are incredibly dumbed down, unchallenging, and arent integrated into further study options available (e.g. why do we insist that students do english up until year 12 when the majority of graduates are not going on to study literature and it provides few soft skills that are useful anywhere else - remembering of course that the HSC course is about analysing texts and not gaining a working command of the english language)

Then I have no problem, I can agree that we might want to change the system but that doesn't mean throwing away the need for basic standards entirely. You're really changing the more you get challenged from a staunch libertarian into someone who can understand that there are occasions where it really isn't best to apply.

 

[jb_nc]

Where are the other libertarians?

So far up their own arses they only come up for air to spew the wonders of the FREE MARKET and HAVE YOU READ VON MISES also AYN RAND as well.

 

[gnrlies]

You do realise that the US spends much more public funds (% wise) on their universities than us right? You do also realise that in particular this funding is set by the states, of which those which reside the greatest universities (i.e. Massachusetts) are often higher taxing 'socialist' states.

To be honest I have no idea how the US government funds its universities but I would be keen to read more. But I do know that all of their top universities are private and charge students probably double what our universities charge.

 

[Enteebee]

To be honest I have no idea how the US government funds its universities but I would be keen to read more. But I do know that all of their top universities are private and charge students probably double what our universities charge.

They're "private" adhering to state/federal guidelines, with funding assistance from the states and with students on state/federal loans & scholarships.

 

[gnrlies]

Then I have no problem, I can agree that we might want to change the system but that doesn't mean throwing away the need for basic standards entirely. You're really changing the more you get challenged from a staunch libertarian into someone who can understand that there are occasions where it really isn't best to apply.

Yes but you know I never said I was a staunch libertarian in the first place. You will see that one of the first things I said was that libertarians would be offended if I called myself one.

But nonetheless I am not a pure libertarian more because I am a pragmatist and understand the practical and political consequences of moving too fast towards a more liberal world. But this doesn't mean that I dont think that you could have an education system (or anything else for that matter) that isn't regulated by the govt.

 

[gnrlies]

They're "private" adhering to state/federal guidelines, with funding assistance from the states and with students on state/federal loans & scholarships.

Yes but they are allowed to charge the fees they require.... Whereas here we have this idea that degrees shouldn't cost more than a certain amount each year.

 

[Enteebee]

Well you COULD have one, it just wouldn't be anywhere near as good as one regulated by government. What about even going to school, should the government force parents to send their kids to some sort of school? Some parents are just plain lazy and wouldn't do it without a kick up the arse from the government.

But yeah where libertarian principles seem to work to provide better outcomes obviously I support it...

Yes but they are allowed to charge the fees they require.... Whereas here we have this idea that degrees shouldn't cost more than a certain amount each year.

Our universities charge the fees they require afaik, with the government picking up the rest of the slack, like in the US.

 

[dieburndie]

He's also mentally-challenged, so I can see why you would vote for him.


In regards to the general and holistic purpose of this thread, nothing makes me laugh more than this:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/01/2204783.htm

Stupid lackeys, University is essentially a (small l) liberal-haven, trying to stop the tide of left-wing thought is pointless and impossible.

I find it amusing that you're insulting and laughing at other people, when you're the one who does/did a BA in Politics yet uses the term liberalism in the same way an admirable source like Fox News would.

 

[Kwayera]

young lisb are currently drunk

 

[dieburndie]

I love you so much, faggot.

Alright.
Seriously though, didn't you pay attention?

Were you not taught the numerous and very different interpretations of what liberalism is, and why many of them are not even close to being aligned with modern left-wing ideas?

 

[gnrlies]

Moderate left-wing ideals are liberal, how difficult is that for you to understand.

The word liberal is probably the most misused term going around....

Whilst entymologically speaking it is derived from the english equivalent of 'free' (its origins are spanish); it has gone on to mean a wider range of things (often conflicting) depending on its context. Subsequently it cant be pinned down for any one position.

 

[BackCountrySnow]

The word liberal is probably the most misused term going around....

Whilst entymologically speaking it is derived from the english equivalent of 'free' (its origins are spanish); it has gone on to mean a wider range of things (often conflicting) depending on its context. Subsequently it cant be pinned down for any one position.

What?
Isn't liberal just left wing. But not extreme left wing like socialism or communism.


I think a lot of people get confused because the liberal party isn't liberal.