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Your thoughts on the 2002 HSC (1 Viewer)

alys

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i think that the fact that these exams were relatively easy won't necessarily make it impossible to separate people, although they might be forced to do so in a different way. especially in subjects like english and history (and languages), those with a sound and perceptive understanding of the text/historical period/grammar, vocab, structure of lanuage will still be easy to distinguish from those who don't. i suppose it's different in maths and the sciences, but as i don't take any science subjects, and i consider myself an average but far from brilliant 4u maths student, the humanities are my main concern.

it doesn't allow for such an immediate differentiation, i agree. you can't walk out of an exam knowing that you've done well just because you managed to get some sort of handle on the question, which you might have been able to do last year, and so in that sense it's not measuring people's abilities to respond to an unexpected or challenging question or perspective under exam conditions. on the other hand, however, it creates a more 'level playing field' for *all* students to be able to display what they know, and not be limited so much by the need to think quickly in exams. which can be good or bad depending on where you sit in the scheme of things. personally, i would prefer the harder exam, but i can see the advantages of the former, and as someone said early on, you can't please everyone. but it's highly unlikely that you'll end up with most of the state getting similiarly high marks. it's always possible to differentiate between people and those who are brilliant will show it by their reasoning, sophisticated language and arguments, insight, knowledge - all the standard stuff.

what these exams really mean is that there'll be a lot more people walking around thinking that they've done pretty damn well, because they managed to answer the question and write a fair bit. that doesn't mean that they all have done well though.
 

Lazy

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I didnt take the time to read that post, too big with too many big words foe lil ol me. But it looks intelligent so ill agree :p
 

luigi

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yeah i didnt read much either.. too tired.. too much posting....
 

kaseita

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that post is scary

quit trying to demoralise me at this moment in time when I'm actually feeling happy with what I've done :p
 

BlackJack

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Y'know, that's lovely, alys. I totally agree with your argument, but I can't imagine what the markers think of this... they'll need a herculean effort to figure out who really gets the marks...

They go back remark the whole set of answers based on what they're seeing as they go. I mean, a very well worded answer that fits the criteria will get 8, but as soon as they see a better answer they always ask themselves whether the marks before fits the dscriptions anymore.
 

Lazy

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Fair call BJ, but do you really think they will go back and re-mark those exams already processed...sounds like too much work to me :p
 

spice girl

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Originally posted by alys
however, it creates a more 'level playing field' for *all* students to be able to display what they know, and not be limited so much by the need to think quickly in exams. which can be good or bad depending on where you sit in the scheme of things.
*all*? There can never be an exam that 'levels the playing field' for all its students. With the easier HSC, the "level playing field" is shifted from the upper performers to the lower performers.

In plain english, dumb people have the opportunity to study for and answer dumb questions, but smart people are finding it difficult to give smart answers to these dumb questions, just to show how smart they comparatively are.
 

Weisy

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and that gets us all into the sticky question of whether the HSC is an appropriate place for smart people to try to show their intelligence, as opposed to their ability to confrom to dot points in a syllabus.

"why shouldn't "dumb" people be able to get the marks too?"

ah, the feeling of de ja vu is *almost* overwhelming...
 

spice girl

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Originally posted by Weisy
"why shouldn't "dumb" people be able to get the marks too?"
Well, if the HSC is any measure of academic ability, it should follow that smart people should get more marks than dumb people...
 

Lazarus

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Heh, since when was the HSC designed to measure 'academic ability'?
 

Weisy

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I have said this before in a huge post I wrote in another thread, but basically I believe that it shouldn't be a test of academic ability, because I don't believe that it is possible to have a test of academic ability.

This has to do with diversity, etc., etc.

I mean, a person can say that they are 'smart', in that they are able to provide insightful answers to questions, but it is still a contextual type of intelligence that has been developed.
 
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saladsurgery

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hmmm... for something like english, if you've done all the work and are relatively good at it, the exam is a handwriting speed exam

(btw, i consider myself to be an average english student who writes too slow)

p.s. and yeah, stop tryin to demoralise us less-than-freaky people
 

Lazarus

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Aside from the obvious difficulties that arise when even attempting to define 'academic ability' (with most definitions actually being circular in nature and so on), one of the difficulties associated with any test of it is, as Weisy mentioned, diversity. Intelligence is multi-faceted - and if we're restricting the type of intelligence measured to academic ability, whatever that may be - one would have to agree that academic ability is also composed of many sub-abilities.

But for the sake of the argument (and the HSC), suppose that academic ability is just a single 'trait', and one that can be quantified. If we were to measure it, what would we be measuring? The ability to perform academically, obviously. But what does that mean? The ability to do well in various exams? The ability to do well in various exams set by the Board of Studies? The scaling performed on marks before they're ground into the UAI is meant to iron out any discrepancies between courses. Theoretically, if academic ability is the ability to perform academically, and it can be measured by a student's performance on BOS exams, the UAI should be the ultimate yardstick when it comes to academic ability.

Yet the correlation between a student's UAI and their subsequent success during their first year of university is not very strong at all (r ~ 0.55). If the HSC is a measure of academic ability, then being at university doesn't allow you to demonstrate your ability to perform academically - a point that seems ludicrous. It would be more intuitive to define academic ability to be the ability to perform academically at university.

What, then, does the HSC measure - and why is it at all useful?
 

McLake

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Like I said in the IQ thread, UAI measures nothing grander than itself.

The HSC is only intended to measure a students preforamance in the HSC, just as the UAI only gives you a rank in the HSC, not in "intellegence" or even in "exam technique" ....
 

Christine

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Originally posted by McLake

The HSC is only intended to measure a students preforamance in the HSC, just as the UAI only gives you a rank in the HSC, not in "intellegence" or even in "exam technique" ....
if only everyone else saw it that way....
 

grem

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god some of u are sooooo snobbish !!!
speak as though you're goin to get 100 uai bloody hell!!
ok you should feel lucky if you are "smart" (according to you)
but some people are born less intellectually capable and that's not exactly entirely their own fault !!
god spice girl you're so demeaning !!
 

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