Catholic Church and HIV/AIDS in Africa. (5 Viewers)

[Tully B.]

Its hard to believe but there is people out there that accuse the Catholic Church of genocide in Africa.

Whoever calls what the Catholic Church is doing is genocide is as ignorant to the problem as those that say that they aren't Partly responsible. The situation, in my opinion, is very clear. The Catholic Church condemns, and in many cases prevents the distribution of, condoms in Africa and (while we're on the topic) South America. Even those who aren't of the Catholic faith are affected by this, which is quite simply wrong.

Here's my analogy of the situation:
My mum tells me that I can't drive the car by myself until I get my Ps. Alright, fair enough. It's the law. However, she goes one step further to say that if I do happen to drive without having gotten my Ps, i should in no circumstances wear a seatbelt.
This is a pretty crude presentation of it, but it pretty much covers the position of African and South American countries.

(Please note that my mum did not in fact advise me against wearing a seatbelt).

 

[kalamari]

Tully was the friend at school i referred to earlier.

Here's my analogy of the situation:
My mum tells me that I can't drive the car by myself until I get my Ps. Alright, fair enough. It's the law. However, she goes one step further to say that if I do happen to drive without having gotten my Ps, i should in no circumstances wear a seatbelt.
This is a pretty crude presentation of it, but it pretty much covers the position of African and South American countries.

(Please note that my mum did not in fact advise me against wearing a seatbelt).

Nice analogy. Here's mine:

I'm going skydiving and the instructor tells me that there's an 85% chance that the parachute will open. Would i still jump?

By encouraging condoms over abstinence we are heightening the problem. We in the developed part of the world know that condoms are not 100% successful, but, do the people in Africa? Most see condoms as their ticket to sex with whoever, whenever they want. This attitude although by no meens universal, will not discourage the spread of infection.

Discussion/examination of other possible active factors? That's just prima facie, it doesn't prove anything.

How about you find some proof that will convince me to think otherwise? Instead of trying to talk down the information I have dug up. Other people here have been able to get me thinking more about this issue with their opinions. You just question my opinion without supplying any evidence of your reasons to do so.

 

[Kwayera]

How about you find some proof that will convince me to think otherwise? Instead of trying to talk down the information I have dug up. Other people here have been able to get me thinking more about this issue with their opinions. You just question my opinion without supplying any evidence of your reasons to do so.

You haven't dug up information; you've dug up rhetoric, without providing your source.

 

[Kwayera]

Here's my analogy of the situation:
My mum tells me that I can't drive the car by myself until I get my Ps. Alright, fair enough. It's the law. However, she goes one step further to say that if I do happen to drive without having gotten my Ps, i should in no circumstances wear a seatbelt.
This is a pretty crude presentation of it, but it pretty much covers the position of African and South American countries.

That's a really good analogy, actually.

 

[Empyrean444]

How about you find some proof that will convince me to think otherwise? Instead of trying to talk down the information I have dug up. Other people here have been able to get me thinking more about this issue with their opinions. You just question my opinion without supplying any evidence of your reasons to do so.

Doesn't matter. Your argument is revolving around specious evidence (correlation, as was said). I'm not 'talking down' your info to an unreasonable extent. The fact is these facts are weak and prove little, as they only examine the surface of the issue. I question the basis on which your opinion stands. Other factors, other factors, other factors. IN effect you have not presented real or substantial 'evidence', but rather a shallow set of facts (and indeed I did present before an instance showcasing the failure of outer-marital celibacy and anit-contraceptive ideology), as these facts do not actually prove anything other than a simulacra.

 

[Tully B.]

That's a really good analogy, actually.

Cheers. I bet Kalamari didn't think so.

 

[Tully B.]

Tully was the friend at school i referred to earlier.



Nice analogy. Here's mine:

I'm going skydiving and the instructor tells me that there's an 85% chance that the parachute will open. Would i still jump?

By encouraging condoms over abstinence we are heightening the problem. We in the developed part of the world know that condoms are not 100% successful, but, do the people in Africa? Most see condoms as their ticket to sex with whoever, whenever they want. This attitude although by no meens universal, will not discourage the spread of infection.

More importantly, would you still use the parachute once you've jumped? Of course not, because there's only an 85% chance that it'll work. Duh.

Simple fact is, the Catholic Church knows that they are condemning the use of condoms to many sexually active people, which is outrageously irresponsible.

 

[Tully B.]

Alright, going to bed. We'll continue this at school, Kalamari.

 

[cutemouse]

- abstinence and monogamous relationships are not foolproof, as infections can be passed between the married partners and then to their children through childbirth
- not every Christian in Africa is of the Catholic persuasion, but a lot of the "ruling class" are, and as such:
- Catholic propoganda has tainted the image of the condom in Africa with pseudo-science, discouraging its use even among non-Catholics
- latex condoms are around 85% effective in preventing transmission of HIV when compared to non-use of condoms, which is certainly better than nothing (Source: CDC)
- therefore, the Catholic church's insistence on abstinence (an unfair and unrealistic 'ideal') and resistance to barrier contraceptives has very likely contributed to the deaths of millions of Africans from HIV/AIDS over the course of the existence of the disease.



Studies in Thailand and other South-East Asian countries, where condom use has been heavily encouraged to reduce the spread of HIV/AIDS, would disagree with whatever pseudo-interpretation entailed in your "White House report".

I think someone enjoys having sex too much and is in denial

 

[m1tch37]

Breaking news: telling kids not to fuck is not enough to stop them from fucking!

 

[Deathwatch]

If anything its only going to encourage them

 

[Kwayera]

I think someone enjoys having sex too much and is in denial

And what's wrong with that? Sex is great. You should try it sometime!

 

[jumb]

Exactly what im getting at.

whoops, i failed at reading all the posts

 

[boris]

Breaking news: telling kids not to fuck is not enough to stop them from fucking!

especially when they are uneducated african kids with nothing more to live for

 

[Tully B.]

especially when they are uneducated african kids with nothing more to live for

Or, simply adolescent.

 

[boris]

nah their massive lack of education doesnt help

ever notice how levels of aids and shit are lower in countries where educational standards are higher

 

[Iron]

nah their massive lack of education doesnt help

ever notice how levels of aids and shit are lower in countries where educational standards are higher

Like in the Phillipines compared to Thailand???

Seriously, how many threads do we want on this topic? I think 5 is a good number, personally

 

[Lentern]

No we aren't, we're allowed to set conditions on being part of the club. Nobody forces them to be part of the club and frankly we have no more discouraged contraception then we have pre marital sex. There would be no problem if Africans actually did what we say, the problem is they half do what we say. They don't use the condoms but ignore the part about not having sex.


And finally it's not as though Bishop Fisher will get up on his chariot and mow you down if your caught using it; how was the pope to know people would actually take him serious this time? When he's told people to go to church, don't gamble and don't kill we've skipped church, bet our savings on the Dubai Clssic and started wars.

 

[Iron]

What a stupid thing to say. Shut up Lentern

 

[boris]

Like in the Phillipines compared to Thailand???

Seriously, how many threads do we want on this topic? I think 5 is a good number, personally

666 would be better