Reflections of a 4th yr pharm student--pls read if you're considering pharm (2 Viewers)

[Paradox1345]

awww I actually was considering pharmacy...

 

[extensorindicis]

you should still consider pharmacy, i don't think lala's intentions were to turn people of pharmacy??? just to let people know what its like. You're best of going to you're local pharmacy and doing some work experience to see if you like it.

 

[lala2]

Yeah thanks for clearing that up extensorindicis. Definitely, do get some work experience. I forgot to mention that earlier--I had never worked in a pharmacy prior to that so the crush of disillusionment was huge when it did come. Most people who worked in a pharmacy prior to uni (meaning earlier than the summer holidays between Year 12 and uni) seem very content with it. I suppose because they made an informed decision.

If it sounds silly not getting work experience, a) my school abolished work experience effective from my year, and b) the overwhelming majority hadn't either (most didn't until 2nd or 3rd year, which by then is also too late). Besides, it's not easy to observe just from work experience that the pharmacist knows *that* much more behind the scenes, because of course it's rarely called on.

 

[danz90]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Hey danz, that's cool. Do you know of ways to get in? I'm ashamed to admit it, but as a fourth year, I know basically nothing of industry. What kind of work are you looking for in industry? I guess it's so neglected at USYD (but I'd imagine it'd be too at other unis). Though I must say USYD is guilty of being very community focused, which is fine since most people work as community pharmacists anyway, but other unis I've heard (from the students themselves) have more varied focuses, like hospital, or rural.

hey lala =)

they've actually changed the curriculum now. my year is the 2nd year to do BPharm under the new curriculum. Now, theres a good focus on other areas of pharmacy other than just community. For example, one of my units, PHAR1812, has got alot to do with industry - we learn about basic pharmaceutics, dosage forms, drug discovery/development, etc etc and I really like that subject - shows I'm into pharma industry. In 4th year you can just a specialised stream - rural, hospital, international or industrial pharmacy (I think community may be another stream too).

The only downside to industry is that its more competitive to get a job - most likely I will have to end up doing honours, and then MAYBE doing a PhD or something postgrad. Obviously, I'll need to build up a few years experience in pharmacy (either community or hospital) before I can consider industrial. Can't just jump into the pharma industry post-registration..

Good luck in your exams! =D

 

[donthaveaname]

check out this thread. Apparently pharmacists are still in demand.

http://community.boredofstudies.org...th-studies/196774/job-prospects-pharmacy.html

 

[lala2]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

hey lala =)

they've actually changed the curriculum now. my year is the 2nd year to do BPharm under the new curriculum. Now, theres a good focus on other areas of pharmacy other than just community. For example, one of my units, PHAR1812, has got alot to do with industry - we learn about basic pharmaceutics, dosage forms, drug discovery/development, etc etc and I really like that subject - shows I'm into pharma industry. In 4th year you can just a specialised stream - rural, hospital, international or industrial pharmacy (I think community may be another stream too).

The only downside to industry is that its more competitive to get a job - most likely I will have to end up doing honours, and then MAYBE doing a PhD or something postgrad. Obviously, I'll need to build up a few years experience in pharmacy (either community or hospital) before I can consider industrial. Can't just jump into the pharma industry post-registration..

Good luck in your exams! =D

Haha thanks, you too! (I think we've both been pulling very late nights, judging by what time you posted) PHAR1812 I think is what I knew as 2nd year physform, that was interesting, do you still have Kim Chan and Paul Young? If you do (or I suppose, did), have a talk to Kim Chan, he had a talk to us at the end of third year physform and said basically, get registered, cos that's important, and you definitely need PhD as a minimum. Whether you want to get experience or not after registration is up to you. Your plan sounds like a good idea, might as well make use of the degree. But yeah, have a talk to him if you need any more ideas.

Yeah, I like how you get streams (I personally would've gone for international, but sounds like everyone else would've too). Oh also, not sure if you're aware but there are summer research scholarships available to 2nd and 3rd years so even though it's early for you, just be aware they do exist and if you're interested, obviously try and pick projects with supervisors in the industrial area (again, Kim Chan and Paul Young would be good ones to have). This is also an exceptional case, but last summer holidays (08-09), two people from my year were on summer scholarships to research aerosols and other dosage formulations in England with Novartis I think it was? Hopefully they keep it open for you guys, it sounds really interesting.

 

[danz90]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Haha thanks, you too! (I think we've both been pulling very late nights, judging by what time you posted) PHAR1812 I think is what I knew as 2nd year physform, that was interesting, do you still have Kim Chan and Paul Young? If you do (or I suppose, did), have a talk to Kim Chan, he had a talk to us at the end of third year physform and said basically, get registered, cos that's important, and you definitely need PhD as a minimum. Whether you want to get experience or not after registration is up to you. Your plan sounds like a good idea, might as well make use of the degree. But yeah, have a talk to him if you need any more ideas.

Yeah, I like how you get streams (I personally would've gone for international, but sounds like everyone else would've too). Oh also, not sure if you're aware but there are summer research scholarships available to 2nd and 3rd years so even though it's early for you, just be aware they do exist and if you're interested, obviously try and pick projects with supervisors in the industrial area (again, Kim Chan and Paul Young would be good ones to have). This is also an exceptional case, but last summer holidays (08-09), two people from my year were on summer scholarships to research aerosols and other dosage formulations in England with Novartis I think it was? Hopefully they keep it open for you guys, it sounds really interesting.

hey again =)

yeah i was talking to a 3rd year BPharm student a couple of weeks ago, and he said that they've really "advanced" the curriculum with the new curriculum. Apparently we do 2nd year topics - eg. We have Physical pharmaceutics (PHAR1822) in semester 2 - that's with Paul Young as coordinator I think. We had Lenka Munoz for PHAR1812, she was the best!! I had a look at those summer scholarships - they look really interesting.

Just got my sem2 timetable - 5 day weekkk.... =( We got used to the luxury of a 4-day week this semester.

All the best with the rest of ur exams =D

 

[lala2]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Ok, an update. As you may be able to tell, I'm currently on a 2 week placement at Lismore Base Hospital which is uber cool. I don't know if it's because it's Lismore and people have more time for you or because sick people generally have nothing to do but listen to your pratter, but it's actually much better up here. I'm really enjoying the clinical side of things, i.e. looking at medications and knowing what's wrong with them, and making recommendations to change those problems. You also learn a lot about disease states, e.g. I learnt about pericarditis today, which is not significant enough to be taught at uni.

Basically, I'm really enjoying hospital because you get to use a lot more of your knowledge. I was forced to recall facts that you would never need in community pharmacy, e.g. what is the difference between the generations of cephalosporins (antibiotics which are similar to penicillins), and how would you get someone off multiple benzodiazepines (sleeping pills)?

You hardly get to do any dispensing, which is fine by me (my main gripe with community pharmacy is customers, OTCs and having to make up a lot of crap, which I can never do convincingly). Trust me, I've never seen so much warfarin counselling in my life, and I have never counselled on warfarin till this week (yep, 4 years of pharm education and never got a chance). You'd actually be surprised at how much counselling you still have to know, esp on your prescription drugs, because we do get quite a few requests from the Drs to counsel patients on discharge.

If that didn't make any sense, basically I'm really enjoying hosp and if anyone's interested in the clinical side of things (diseases, and their management), hosp is def something to consider.

 

[Wooz]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Ok, an update. As you may be able to tell, I'm currently on a 2 week placement at Lismore Base Hospital which is uber cool. I don't know if it's because it's Lismore and people have more time for you or because sick people generally have nothing to do but listen to your pratter, but it's actually much better up here. I'm really enjoying the clinical side of things, i.e. looking at medications and knowing what's wrong with them, and making recommendations to change those problems. You also learn a lot about disease states, e.g. I learnt about pericarditis today, which is not significant enough to be taught at uni.

Basically, I'm really enjoying hospital because you get to use a lot more of your knowledge. I was forced to recall facts that you would never need in community pharmacy, e.g. what is the difference between the generations of cephalosporins (antibiotics which are similar to penicillins), and how would you get someone off multiple benzodiazepines (sleeping pills)?

You hardly get to do any dispensing, which is fine by me (my main gripe with community pharmacy is customers, OTCs and having to make up a lot of crap, which I can never do convincingly). Trust me, I've never seen so much warfarin counselling in my life, and I have never counselled on warfarin till this week (yep, 4 years of pharm education and never got a chance). You'd actually be surprised at how much counselling you still have to know, esp on your prescription drugs, because we do get quite a few requests from the Drs to counsel patients on discharge.

If that didn't make any sense, basically I'm really enjoying hosp and if anyone's interested in the clinical side of things (diseases, and their management), hosp is def something to consider.

Hey, I might be doing my 3rd year, year long rural placement at either Lismore or Bathurst, so yeah please keep us updated, i'd be really interested to see your perspectives of the hospital, the community and the pharmacy over your 2 week placement.

 

[danz90]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Ok, an update. As you may be able to tell, I'm currently on a 2 week placement at Lismore Base Hospital which is uber cool. I don't know if it's because it's Lismore and people have more time for you or because sick people generally have nothing to do but listen to your pratter, but it's actually much better up here. I'm really enjoying the clinical side of things, i.e. looking at medications and knowing what's wrong with them, and making recommendations to change those problems. You also learn a lot about disease states, e.g. I learnt about pericarditis today, which is not significant enough to be taught at uni.

Basically, I'm really enjoying hospital because you get to use a lot more of your knowledge. I was forced to recall facts that you would never need in community pharmacy, e.g. what is the difference between the generations of cephalosporins (antibiotics which are similar to penicillins), and how would you get someone off multiple benzodiazepines (sleeping pills)?

You hardly get to do any dispensing, which is fine by me (my main gripe with community pharmacy is customers, OTCs and having to make up a lot of crap, which I can never do convincingly). Trust me, I've never seen so much warfarin counselling in my life, and I have never counselled on warfarin till this week (yep, 4 years of pharm education and never got a chance). You'd actually be surprised at how much counselling you still have to know, esp on your prescription drugs, because we do get quite a few requests from the Drs to counsel patients on discharge.

If that didn't make any sense, basically I'm really enjoying hosp and if anyone's interested in the clinical side of things (diseases, and their management), hosp is def something to consider.

Sounds cool. We had a lecture on Hosp. Pharmacy with Betty Chaar. She made it sound really interesting, and so does your post lol. I think I wanna try a bit of everything in Pharmacy, I might do my registration year in community, and then maybe try hospital.. and then maybe go onto postgrad if I wanna pursue my ultimate goal in Industry.

 

[jules.09]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

dude, that was an interesting post.

they make very good money, but i hear its very hard to get licensing now? i think they see themselves more as businessmen rather than pharmacists, so in that regard, they really enjoy it.

One of the reasons why I'd hate to go into pharm actually, but it's going down in my preferences this year...

I see it as avoiding commerce as much as I can, to learn science, to be shoved back into the stream I despise again, should that be how things unfold.

 

[lala2]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Sounds cool. We had a lecture on Hosp. Pharmacy with Betty Chaar. She made it sound really interesting, and so does your post lol. I think I wanna try a bit of everything in Pharmacy, I might do my registration year in community, and then maybe try hospital.. and then maybe go onto postgrad if I wanna pursue my ultimate goal in Industry.

Wow, so the curriculum has changed quite significantly...we never had any such lecture in first year (I'm guessing it was for Foundations?) I don't know if anyone would be as lucky, but one of the pharmacists at Lismore said she managed to snag a preceptor who split his time between community and hospital, so her pre-reg hours were similarly split between the two, and now that she's registered...again, she's splitting her time almost evenly between the two. Would love to have that.

Re: pre-reg, it's easier to pass the exam if you work in community, because the exam's much more community focused. If you're after money, do pre-reg in hospital then community after registration. I agree, it's good to try everything.

One of the reasons why I'd hate to go into pharm actually, but it's going down in my preferences this year...

I see it as avoiding commerce as much as I can, to learn science, to be shoved back into the stream I despise again, should that be how things unfold.

You don't have to work in community, and if you do, you don't have to own your own business. Sure, owning a business will bring you much more money, but don't forget it's a 24/7 job. You have to recruit, make sure the staff are in line, and the figures are always on your mind. And if the pharmacist calls in sick and there's no other pharmacist available, you're gonna have to go in yourself. So yeah, owning a business is not the be all and end all.

 

[lala2]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

At the expense of double posting, happy to report I've got a reference from my preceptor, and if any of you are into hospital, one of the pharmacists gave me some very useful information. Hobart and Adelaide are excellent--Hobart for clinical pharmacy, and Adelaide for medicine in general. QLD also is in desperate need of hosp pharmacists because everyone's out in community for the money.

And it's not that bad if you don't mind a little less pay straight off. If you work your way up the ranks, you'll be earning as much as a comm pharmacist (I'm presuming one not owning a pharmacy) in about 5-6 years. For the satisfaction it brings, plus the fact that I think the Sydney market will be saturated with community pharmacists soon and it'll get too hard to find a job, I don't mind. I'd rather get a guaranteed job with a little less pay and more satisfaction than a job with much more pay and less satisfaction that is not guaranteed.

 

[lala2]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Hey, I might be doing my 3rd year, year long rural placement at either Lismore or Bathurst, so yeah please keep us updated, i'd be really interested to see your perspectives of the hospital, the community and the pharmacy over your 2 week placement.

perspectives of the hospital--medium sized, so you get to know (or at least visually recognise) most people, but it's not so small you won't get a variety of cases. they have a renal, orthopaedic, paediatric, surgical, ICU/CCU (coronary care unit), women's/birthing unit, and some others which I can't remember. there are quite a few students up here on placement at any one time, so you won't be the only young one there.

perspectives of the community--high unemployment rate, high rate of drug use, and not safe to go out alone at night. but apart from that, the people I've met were generally very friendly.

perspectives of the pharmacy--loved it. the staff were very friendly and tried to get us involved as much as possible. kudos to the 2 clinical pharmacists (both only registered for about 18 months) and the two prereg pharmacists who really took me under their wing and let me tail them around and bug them with a zillion questions.

other:

- there's a lot of interest in natural medicines, if you're into that (highly recommend visiting the SCU clinic--however, you may either really love it (like I did) or think it's a pile of crap (like the resident med student on our floor!).
- also highly recommend drug & alcohol clinic which is just across the road from the hospital. very confronting unless you've worked or had experience in one before.
- st vincent's oncology--highly recommend. I didn't get the chance to go, but from the two students placed there, sounds awesome.
- weather (if you like to know about the little things)--was quite alright actually. Ranged from 8-20 these 2 weeks, but it felt a lot warmer than Sydney at night!
- things to do--30-45 minutes to Ballina (my sense of time would be warped because I travelled there by coach), which is at the junction of 2 rivers and has a beach, so if you're into water, that's cool. Then there's Lennox Heads (great for surfing but beach is crap), and Byron. Inland, there's Alstonville (on the way to Ballina) for macademia (sp?) nuts, Kyogle, Nimbin (land of the hippies and pot) and Casino. And further out, Gold Coast and Brisbane are only about 3-4 hours drive. So it's pretty central to anywhere you'd want to go to.

overall opinion--Lismore is a lot more lively than Bathurst but then again I've only visited Bathurst once, and that was on the way to Dubbo. I'd recommend it though, esp if you've never been in the area before, simply because it's different and because you're unlikely to come up to this area otherwise as it's so far from Sydney (esp compared to Bathurst)

 

[Wooz]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Cheers, thanks for that it was very insightful. I probably will go to Lismore now, it seems that the base hospital and the clinic have alot to offer patient and learning wise. Also Nimbin is close by

 

[katie tully]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

Bathurst hospital is fucked hey. Literally, they rebuilt it and poop was rising up from the sewerage into the drainage holes in the surgery rooms.

lawl.

 

[mixt]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

oh good so a happy ending eh lala2? it seems you are quite content with working now as to ur initial post.. what happened to sci/arts?

 

[lala2]

Re: Pls read if you're considering pharm (warning: very lengthy)

oh good so a happy ending eh lala2? it seems you are quite content with working now as to ur initial post.. what happened to sci/arts?

I am content to know that there is still a future in pharmacy for me. However, hospital jobs are extremely competitive and it's 99% chance I will still be slogging it out in a community pharmacy somewhere next year. Science/Arts is still on the cards though--I'm not that fickle minded. If I do not get a job offer by Sept 30th I'm applying through UAC for it. I cannot sit around for a year (6 months if I'm lucky) doing nothing. I have every intention of going back to uni at some point though, even if only for self interest.

Basically, I have about 10 backup plans:

1. Apply for metropolitan hospitals
2. Apply for rural hospitals <--currently doing
3. Apply for metropolitan community pharmacies
4. Apply for rural community pharmacies
5. Apply for Science/Arts, and between December and March go do something interesting, OR don't apply, take half a year off--go travel, work a bit more in my uni job, do some interesting TAFE courses (got my eye on a few), join and be involved in C&S at uni I never was able to dedicate my time too, indulge in some hobbies, and then apply for mid year entry. I might actually get lucky with mid year entry though, because even though the absolute number of positions available is far less, the competition is virtually zero in NSW.

 

[magchem07]

LAlA that’s really fantastic that you have got off your chest and decided to guide the year 12 students which don’t have any experience in professional life yet and I do really understand what you mean by insulting your intelligent. If you still like science master in pharmaceutical field + your pharmacy degree (even though you don’t like it much) will really boost your success in pharmaceutical industry! And to other ppl who don’t know about pharmaceutical industry, I should tell you it is not all about research! Research is only a part of that, and the money you make is very high! Just check the salary on My Career.

And to those who think it’s all about money! NO it’s not! You need to love your job because you are going to stick to it for the rest of your life. If you want to do pharmacy just for money, let me tell you sth! The practice manager who works at my sister’s practice earns 100Ks a year! YES! For someone who never hold a Uni degree and just been working for 6years and what do you think she does? I bet you nothing more than a receptionist! Also you need to keep that in mind that the 100K you think you’re gonna earn as a pharmacist is not for a graduate! You need to work hard to get to that level.

 

[r3d3mption]

Pharmacy sucks hours are long at uni because there are heaps of breaks + you make crap pay for learning all this crap hard stuff. Do med or do an applied science to get MONIES otherwise GG to your life