Should conscription be re-introduced in 21st Century Australia? (3 Viewers)

[russs]

hmmm....interesting jump there.....

but purpose of conscription isn't just limited to increasing defensive capabilities - designed also to teach skills/values etc.

Conscription teaches you that you are the property of the state and you must listen to your superiors.

Conscription may be necessary if there is a mass scale war, but it has no use in the current situation. A good way to damage economy, that's about it.

 

[Freedom_]

conscription teaches you that you are the property of the state and you must listen to your superiors.

Conscriptionmay be necessary if there is a mass scale war, but it has no use in the current situation. A good way to damage economy, that's about it.

its never necessary.

 

[Freedom_]

conscription can be necessary....especially if we're getting invaded....

and is forcing people to join the military so different to other impositions mandated by the government, which also 'breach' our rights?

Thats not a reason. The government doesn't owns anyone.

 

[russs]

This is what conscription is, and always will be:

(says People & Army are one).

I hope whatever countries left who are still practicing this in 21st century change their mind sooner.

 

[blue_chameleon]

I can't see Singapore having any problems with their National Service that's been in place for over 40 years and draws from the system that the Swiss use.

A basic outline of the system:
- 2 years of National Service upon reaching the age of 18.
- Extensive training and health/fitness checks
- Serve in Armed/Air Forces, Police Force and Civil Defence Force.
- Upon completion they are considered Reservists.

I think there could be great benefit in adopting something similar to the Singaporean National Service system, for those that don't obtain the following criteria after completing High School (after exiting at either Year 10/11/12):

- Full-time employment; or
- Further tertiary education.

This would take care of a lot of the youth that defy further education and/or full-time employment and simply leech from government assistance for a substantial period of their life, and possibly provide the discipline and training to allow them to make a meaningful contribution to society.

 

[blue_chameleon]

The problems it causes are difficult to measure. It may not show up on official statistics, but forcing someone to do something against their will creates a pretty fucking huge problem for that person. Conscription creates a problem for hundreds of thousands of people in Singapore.

I hardly think it's creating massive problems if everybody realises that it is something that is required, and has been part of society for decades now. They aren't working in slave camps here, a bit of service in Police, Public Defence etc. Granted, I accept that there could be the possibility for 'issues' from those that are brought into a program such this, if it hasn't been established before, but this National Service system is pretty lame in comparison to fighting wars etc, which is not what I'm advocating here.

Also, if you're going to use the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" line, since Singapore's system hasn't caused any huge, obvious problems, the same can be applied to Australia where we don't have conscription and the status quo also seems to be working fine.

Except for the fact that Australia has a high rate of youth unemployment, which has remained the case over the past decade. The Smith Family produced a report back in 2003 which makes for an interesting read; especially regarding the youth 'at risk' of unemployment.

I'd turn that line of 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' back on you and say that I believe things are broken in regards to youth unemployment in Australia, and that things aren't exactly 'working fine'. Adoption of a National Service program would go a long way to resolving some of the main issues contributing to this.

Once again, i'm not saying this is the magic bullet to addressing youth unemployment here, but it offers a solution that would be based off a system that works (until you can refute this credibly). I know [albeit a small sample of] Singaporeans that have been through the system and speak of their time in NS as similar to that of a part-time job. They honestly didn't seem fazed or jaded by what they had been through. Take what you want from that.

Once again, to be clear here; what I am suggesting here is far away from 'conscription' in the sense of what occurred back in the Vietnam War days. Draws a lot more from the Singaporean/Swiss system of community based services, and targeting it towards youth that are not in employment or tertiary education.

 

[russs]

I can't see Singapore having any problems with their National Service that's been in place for over 40 years and draws from the system that the Swiss use.

A basic outline of the system:
- 2 years of National Service upon reaching the age of 18.
- Extensive training and health/fitness checks
- Serve in Armed/Air Forces, Police Force and Civil Defence Force.
- Upon completion they are considered Reservists.

I think there could be great benefit in adopting something similar to the Singaporean National Service system, for those that don't obtain the following criteria after completing High School (after exiting at either Year 10/11/12):

- Full-time employment; or
- Further tertiary education.

This would take care of a lot of the youth that defy further education and/or full-time employment and simply leech from government assistance for a substantial period of their life, and possibly provide the discipline and training to allow them to make a meaningful contribution to society.

Lol.

I met a guy at MQ uni who did service in Singapore and wasn't too happy about it.

The solution for unemployed youth is simple: cut off welfare. If their parents can support the, so be it. Otherwise, they will have to find something to do.

 

[blue_chameleon]

The solution for unemployed youth is simple: cut off welfare. If their parents can support the, so be it. Otherwise, they will have to find something to do.

No, the solution isn't that simple.

I'd be betting that the "something to do" would be sourcing the income they need from crime. Secondly, the majority of parents of those that are highly represented in youth unemployment figures aren't exactly in a position to support their children, let alone want to convince them to jet a job, of course assuming that the children still reside with their parents. Read the link I posted from the Smith Family.

If cutting off welfare completely was the simple fix here, government would have thrown up the idea already.

 

[SylviaB]

If cutting off welfare completely was the simple fix here, government would have thrown up the idea already.

Do you have any idea how many votes they would lose, regardless of whether it worked or not?

 

[blue_chameleon]

Do you have any idea how many votes they would lose, regardless of whether it worked or not?

Does that really detract from the point that I am making in regards to a fix for youth unemployment? You can omit that line from my response and it doesn't change my point.

My point was that there's no solution in cutting funding and treating the issue as a simple fix; because it's not.

 

[SylviaB]

Does that really detract from the point that I am making in regards to a fix for youth unemployment?

In a sense, yes. You said that if cutting welfare worked, then the government would have suggested it. But you see, the unwillingness of the government to do so is not in any way indicitive of the effectivfeness of cutting welfare.

 

[Iron]

Anyone who voted no is a coward

 

[SylviaB]

Anyone who voted no is a coward

Fuck off, as if you would ever enlist.

 

[Venetiad]

Hey look it's alive again.

I agree with russs. Conscription can be necessary, and I think it can work. Young children just need to be taught the values of our society, if possible, so that they know when it's time to defend our country. This would almost eliminate the problem of conscription. You would ofcourse, have your hardcore freedom riders who will evade all acknowledgement of a state which supports them, but they'll always exist unfortunately.

If Australia was to be invaded, and our liberty and freedom (as it stands) were at stake, then I'd enlist, or allow myself to be conscripted. Whatever you want to call it, regardless your in the armed forces. But if the situation never arises, then conscription is wrong. We should have the right to choose our own future if we haven't done anything wrong.

 

[Venetiad]

Thats not a reason. The government doesn't owns anyone.

This made me lol.

If our country we're to fall to foreign invaders, do you think you'd be as free as your are now?

 

[ninetypercent]

no; freedom of speech.

 

[SylviaB]

If shit ever hit the fan hard enough that we required conscription, then conscription wouldn't work.

 

[Empyrean444]

conscription can be necessary....especially if we're getting invaded....

and is forcing people to join the military so different to other impositions mandated by the government, which also 'breach' our rights?

So you are seriously suggesting that forcing people to learn to kill and making them state property is really in the same league as, say, 'forcing' someone to get an education so that they can do something with their life?

 

[Mu5hi]

OR we could try the militarization of our society like the USA. If that fails we need to adpot Conscription. Sihkman has plenty of good idea's.

 

[blue_chameleon]

In a sense, yes. You said that if cutting welfare worked, then the government would have suggested it. But you see, the unwillingness of the government to do so is not in any way indicitive of the effectivfeness of cutting welfare.

No dude, no it doesn't have anything to do with the original idea I proposed.

Unless you want to argue that finding a solution to youth unemployment is simple, which is what I was arguing against, then drop the crusade. I get what you are saying, although it doesn't change my argument.

My original point on topic was that I believe implementation of a National Service program (similar in design to that of Singapore/Switzerland systems) would do a lot to address issues such as the high levels of youth unemployment.

Read through my posts again and double check what I am actually focusing on here.