MedVision ad

Does God exist? (13 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


  • Total voters
    1,568

Garygaz

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
1,827
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
and thus, due to our flawed and relativist perceptions, it can never provide ultimate 'answers'. This notion can be demonstrated by simply picking some well established field of science and continually asking 'why'..at some point you will get the response 'we dont know'. This does not have anything to do with 'the limitations of science', rather our minds delving into concepts they themselves did not evolve around, and thus have no mechanisms for understanding.
This is my point exactly, yet you will inevitably argue otherwise. We have no mechanisms for understanding these things, hence you can never be sure either way. It does indeed have everything to do with the limitations of science, as science IS our minds delving into concepts of the unknown.
 

Garygaz

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
1,827
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
If something supernatural didn't create the very original piece of matter (and I mean original) [the very first thing/piece of energy to ever exist in the entirety of empty space], then how did it come to be?

Answer this question without saying 'science will eventually find an answer' or 'it is beyond our capability of knowing'. Mathmatically, if we call a void "0" - which is nothing, and something "1", no matter what you do to zero, (add, multiply, divide etc) you can never get to one. Therefore you cannot create something out of nothing. Please, I actually wish to be proved wrong.

If you have a valid argument, I don't want it to say 'energy created original matter', because that takes the prefix that something had to create energy. If nothing created energy, then is it not the definition of supernatural?
 

tommykins

i am number -e^i*pi
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
5,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
If something supernatural didn't create the very original piece of matter (and I mean original) [the very first thing/piece of energy to ever exist in the entirety of empty space], then how did it come to be?

Answer this question without saying 'science will eventually find an answer' or 'it is beyond our capability of knowing'. Mathmatically, if we call a void "0" - which is nothing, and something "1", no matter what you do to zero, (add, multiply, divide etc) you can never get to one. Therefore you cannot create something out of nothing. Please, I actually wish to be proved wrong.

If you have a valid argument, I don't want it to say 'energy created original matter', because that takes the prefix that something had to create energy. If nothing created energy, then is it not the definition of supernatural?
this will just lead to ad infinitum.
 

moll.

Learn to science.
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,545
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Wtf? an agnostic person is a person who doesn't believe in god specifically, but believes that there is a 'greater force' out there somewhere. They still hold the values of atheists, but quietly believe that there is something out there.
Fail. That's an unaligned theist.

ad infinitum said:
Lol? Someone who believes in a 'high force out there somewhere' is a Diest. "They hold the same values as athiest"? LOL there are no values attributed to Atheism other than the conslusion that there are no good reasons to beleive in a god. Another extremely muddled mind.
More fail. Deists believe in a god, but don't think that he micromanages and intervenes in everyday life. Not the same.
 

Cookie182

Individui Superiore
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
Global
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Since you cannot find the source of infinity, would you agree it is impossible then to know?
Your begging the question a little, given that we all know there is no answer. However, one suggestion- does there need to be an answer? As Dawkins says, just because we can think of the question, does not mean it deserves an answer. The whole universe may be eternal or repetitious etc

Note also- going by your epistemic position we can't actually "know" anything at all. Your bringing the whole nature of reality into question (perhaps "The Matrix" is correct). Of course this is a possibility, yet we need to live within the confines of what we can observe, and when we do this we can KNOW with quite some certainty that the claims made for any "god" so far by theists are ineptly false.

I see little point in debating the concept of "you can't know anything". How do YOU 'know' that we can't 'know' anything if you can't 'know' anything lol?
 

Cookie182

Individui Superiore
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
Global
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Given that, I can sympathise with your thinking.

I'm an "earthly atheist" in all sense of the word, but humbly I will only ever answer "I don't know" to the very question of how did it all originate (ie the Universe). I actually see the arrogance lying on the part of the theist- "Oh it was the Christian god...and HE loves you very much!" (cuddles and xoxo)

I think this is the point where we need to differentiate between the "Einsteinian God" and say the Allah.
 
Last edited:

Iron

Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
7,765
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Lol Abbott on Q&A
-Have you read the Koran?

I've tried to, but it was like the old testament on steroids - and i'm not a huge fan of the old testament
 

Cookie182

Individui Superiore
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
Global
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Lol Abbott on Q&A
-Have you read the Koran?

I've tried to, but it was like the old testament on steroids - and i'm not a huge fan of the old testament
lol i heard that too

Funny he said that to the muslim next to him.
 

moll.

Learn to science.
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,545
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Lol Abbott on Q&A
-Have you read the Koran?

I've tried to, but it was like the old testament on steroids - and i'm not a huge fan of the old testament
lol.
In his defence though, Abbott is right. It was a wacked out book. I'd describe it as an endless drivel of religious propganda, theistic ego-tripping and pedantic law-making.
Oddly enough, Mein Kampf reads very similar, except for the occassional smattering of political pseudo-history and Jew-bashing.
 

Smile_Time351

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
93
Location
Wouldn't you like to know?
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
According to your belief system, which is perfectly legitimate for you, but not necessarily what everyone else believes...
Right though you are HD, that's not the best argument to take in a thread like this, as that response can be ascribed to absolutely any post on this ultimately subjective, metaphysical argument. It becomes the religious equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?", perhaps a more antagonistic approach would be appropriate, given the circumstances.

What has been highlighted here is the issue of determinism, which is not entirely the domain of religion. For example, I am an unrepentant dyed-in-the-wool atheist, and yet I hold the logic of determinsim as something close to fact. To explain:

Fact: Everything that happened in our past determines what happens in the future.
Explanation: It's simple cause and effect, we would not be here today if the past had not occured in the exact same sequence that it did. Not in the same manner at least.
Fact: The past, by very nature has already occured.
Corollary: Thus, our future has already been determined.
Corollary: Thus, there is no question of will, free or otherwise. What will happen, will happen, regardless of our decisions given that we have effectively already made them.

Now, if one is religious and holds true the idea of an ominpotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God, then this is even easier to hold true, given that the determination of the future can simply be "explained" by God's plan. Regardless, it doesn't matter, because this argument can not be shot down; with or without a God. (Actually, argument is not the best word to use, given the self-evidence of it. It would be like "arguing" that the sky is blue.)

Thus, HD, he is in fact right, although by no means do you have to believe it, and to put this into the overall context of the thread; this does not prove a God either way because it is not a determinative factor in the argument.
 

Cookie182

Individui Superiore
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
Global
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
I'm leaving this debate for good. Too much of a time-wasting distraction from what really matters.

Good Bye, I've got to go...


Gotta leave you all behind to face the truth

Mama ooo (anyway the wind blows)

I don't wanna die

Sometimes I wish I'd never been born at all (If god exists, did we ask to be brought into this eternal conflict?)
 
Last edited:

Fish Tank

That guy
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
279
Gender
Male
HSC
2010
My 2 cents...

God exists if you believe so. Religion stands to keep people in line, so they don't go around stealing, cheating, killing and being overall assholes.

If God exists so that people are good, then yes I believe God exists. Or at least should.
 

Cazic

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
166
Gender
Male
HSC
2011
My 2 cents...

God exists if you believe so. Religion stands to keep people in line, so they don't go around stealing, cheating, killing and being overall assholes.

If God exists so that people are good, then yes I believe God exists. Or at least should.
If you need a religion to keep you in line, so you don't go around stealing, cheating, killing and being an overall asshole, then overall, you're an asshole.
 

mcflystargirl

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
551
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
My 2 cents...

God exists if you believe so. Religion stands to keep people in line, so they don't go around stealing, cheating, killing and being overall assholes.

If God exists so that people are good, then yes I believe God exists. Or at least should.
you know nothing about christianity clearly
 

Cookie182

Individui Superiore
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
Global
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Youtube Jared Diamond on "The Evolution of Religion"

I'm very interested in the study of religion as an evolutionary, objective, social phenomenon.

When you understand it in this context, particularly several religions competing within a Darwinian framework for survival, as an atheist you no longer ridicule the theist, but offer a respectful help-in-hand to those unfortunately trapped in a viral war of the mind.

I love you all.

-Mustapha Mond (Alpha ++)
 
Last edited:

Iron

Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
7,765
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Help me Cookie i'm trapped. Take me to ur secular world. Show me the pleasures of the secular flesh
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 13)

Top