Imagine a helmet strapped on a human skull— forever (3 Viewers)

[loquasagacious]

Read an article in the smh today on a police crackdown on cyclists wearing helmets, and while in a way it is crossing old ground in the victimless crime/positive liberties space I thought that by divorcing those concepts from polarising themes like drugs and guns it might make for an interesting discussion.

Surely riding without a helmet is the ultimate victimless crime?

Why should the state force cyclists to wear helmets?

If cyclists should wear helments then why not pedestrians (they fall from a similar height) or motorists (their heads hit things with much greater velocity), etc etc?

Interesting google result: Helmet Laws and Health,

 

[brunx]

practically anyone who is a serious recreational or competitive cyclist (ie roadies) will wear a helmet by their own free will. its practically a part of the culture. but yeh i spose im talking about only a fairly small percentage of cyclists who fall under the 'serious' category.
to answer your question, the idea of helmet laws are to protect the rider from head injuries. the law has the right to protect individuals from their own actions.

 

[BlackDragon]

One argument would be its effect on the public health system and emergency departments? Though that's always an argument and not really the strongest in this case. Also the effect that increased injuries have on national work productivity?

Actually there's a site here that says that the introduction of mandary laws has seen a decrease in the amount of cycling that takes place in Australia and thus puts a strain on both the health system with obesity, traffic with increased cars, and the environment with higher carbon emissions and pollution levels. These aren't bad arguments..

http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmet_statistics.html

 

[Slidey]

Read an article in the smh today on a police crackdown on cyclists wearing helmets, and while in a way it is crossing old ground in the victimless crime/positive liberties space I thought that by divorcing those concepts from polarising themes like drugs and guns it might make for an interesting discussion.

Surely riding without a helmet is the ultimate victimless crime?

Why should the state force cyclists to wear helmets?

If cyclists should wear helments then why not pedestrians (they fall from a similar height) or motorists (their heads hit things with much greater velocity), etc etc?

Interesting google result: Helmet Laws and Health,

Do you have any idea how dangerous cycling is compared to walking? Motorists have airbags instead.

Seriously, head injuries due to cycling are very often typically fatal or life-threatening. My dad was brain-damaged by a cycling head injury and he had a helmet on. He'd be well and truly dead if he hadn't of worn one.

Pretty sure that the leading cause of head injuries in Australia is from cycling.

 

[Bereie]

One argument would be its effect on the public health system and emergency departments? Though that's always an argument and not really the strongest in this case. Also the effect that increased injuries have on national work productivity?

Actually there's a site here that says that the introduction of mandary laws has seen a decrease in the amount of cycling that takes place in Australia and thus puts a strain on both the health system with obesity, traffic with increased cars, and the environment with higher carbon emissions and pollution levels. These aren't bad arguments..

http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmet_statistics.html

Forcing people to wear helmets has made fat people even lazier, created more vehicle traffic and made more pollution?

OP would you have any reservations about removing seatbelts in cars?

 

[pman]

Ok, as a national level cyclist I have seen plenty of very bad crashes in my time. Both my sister and myself are only alive today because we wear helmets.

I understand why people do not like to wear helmets, they're hot, itchie and often uncomfortable but they do save lives.

Yes, in countries like denmark where helmets are not required, the fatality rates are lower than here but this is mainly due to road awareness and the attitude of drivers. In most of Europe, Cyclists are given plenty of room and never run off the road if it can be avoided, I have had my bike broken by a bus that just couldn't be bothered moving out half a metre, even though there was nothing coming the other way.

My mother showed her year one class a helmet my sister had been wearing during a bike crash, the helmet definatly saved her life in the crash and the damage was such (almost 40% of the helmet disintegrated) that many of the students vowed never to ride without a helmet again.

Many professional cyclists including Fabio Castartelli have died because of not wearing a helmet.
"[The doctor that declared Casartelli dead]said: "There was a small but very violent impact to the top of the skull a few centimetres to the left of the central axis. Contrary to several reports, there were no facial injuries. The impact caused several fractures within the cranium, causing blood to emerge from the nose, ears and mouth." Disteldorf added that had Casartelli been wearing a hard helmet "some injuries could have been avoided". (wikipedia)

I'll admit that cyclists need to be better behaved on the road and this will reduce deaths and the article is right about the need for motorist awareness but there is a very good reason helmets are required to compete in any bike race anywhere in the world.

Edit: Yes the law does have the right to stop us killing ourselves

Edit 2: the source for the quote inside the wikipedia quote is "Weekes, Richard. The hard truth behind a waste of life. Sunday Times 23 July 1995."

 

[Anonymous-]

fuck these libertarians are so fucking stupid ai

/s

 

[pman]

Reason pedestrians don't need helmets is the speed of impact if you have a fall is much lower, espesh if you hit something

 

[Graney]

One of the biggest safety issues for cycling is visibility. The more cyclists on the road regularly, the safer it is for individuals. If you compare different western countries, the nations with the largest number of cyclists on the road have the lowest accident rates per individual from collisions with vehicles.

Mandatory helmet laws act as a disincentive to potential cyclists. By reducing the number of cyclists on the road, they actually make cycling more dangerous.

Do you have any idea how dangerous cycling is compared to walking? Motorists have airbags instead.

Seriously, head injuries due to cycling are very often typically fatal or life-threatening. My dad was brain-damaged by a cycling head injury and he had a helmet on. He'd be well and truly dead if he hadn't of worn one.

Pretty sure that the leading cause of head injuries in Australia is from cycling.

Not wearing a helmet is fucking retarded, no one would argue otherwise, but why should you demand the government intervene in this area? I might have very good reasons to not wear a helmet in particular circumstances and manage my risk appropriately by riding slower and with greater caution. Why do I deserve to be threatened and fined for doing so?

 

[Iron]

~orwell love~

 

[kaz1]

Reason pedestrians don't need helmets is the speed of impact if you have a fall is much lower, espesh if you hit something

What about those cool bikes old people ride on?

 

[SylviaB]

there are less head injuries in gridiron than rugby


if you want to get all consequential

 

[pman]

What about those cool bikes old people ride on?

you are aslo less likely to fall and hit your head walking along

Also, what do you mean by "cool bike"

 

[theism]

the funny thing is that we're enforcing people to wear helmets..

think about it..

why would we want to protect a brain that is so stupid that it doesn't realise the danger of not wearing one?

how stupid is the helmet anyway?

i mean we as humans realised these activities.. were really dangerous, and we could ultimately die... but instead of not doing the activity, we just made a helmet so we can carry on doing these dangerous activities.

 

[jb_nc]

just put a fuckin helmet on

 

[loquasagacious]

the idea of helmet laws are to protect the rider from head injuries. the law has the right to protect individuals from their own actions.

Edit: Yes the law does have the right to stop us killing ourselves

Why does the law have a right to stop us harming ourselves?

OP would you have any reservations about removing seatbelts in cars?

I would have enormous reservations about removing the seat-belts from my car or about driving a car without seatbelts.

However I have no reservations about removing any legal requirement (ADRs) which require seat-belts. I think that even if it wasn't a legal requirement that manufacturers will still make and people will still buy cars with seatbelts.

And even if they didn't then why should I care?

 

[Graney]

However I have no reservations about removing any legal requirement (ADRs) which require seat-belts. I think that even if it wasn't a legal requirement that manufacturers will still make and people will still buy cars with seatbelts.

And even if they didn't then why should I care?

 

[loquasagacious]

Straw-man, That goes to a parents duty of care for their children. Unrelated to seatbelts.

 

[BlackDragon]

One of the biggest safety issues for cycling is visibility. The more cyclists on the road regularly, the safer it is for individuals. If you compare different western countries, the nations with the largest number of cyclists on the road have the lowest accident rates per individual from collisions with vehicles.

Mandatory helmet laws act as a disincentive to potential cyclists. By reducing the number of cyclists on the road, they actually make cycling more dangerous.


Not wearing a helmet is fucking retarded, no one would argue otherwise, but why should you demand the government intervene in this area? I might have very good reasons to not wear a helmet in particular circumstances and manage my risk appropriately by riding slower and with greater caution. Why do I deserve to be threatened and fined for doing so?

I agree with this. The best way to make riding safer is to make it more common place in society. Australia is one of the few countries that mandates helmet use, and it makes sense in a lot of ways, but it also makes it so that people don't often use bikes. Where as in Europe and Asia, on the other hand, bicycles are extremely common and accidents extremely rare. Only an idiot would go without one if they are riding in traffic or somewhere really busy, but there are so many times when riding without a helmet is relaxed and safe. We should remove these laws for people over eighteen, but keep them in place for everyone younger than that. I for one would love everyone to become much more familiar with cycling, and the benefits of increased use for society are large anyway.

 

[pman]

It's our culture that means we don't ride bike, cycling is the "national sport" of most of europe and many asians can't afford cars or the roads aren't suitable