Libertarian movement (3 Viewers)

SylviaB

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Trying bringing up alcohol prohibition then. Obviously he will have seen alcohol cause far more harm in his career than all other drugs combined, I'm sure it is a huge factor is most domestic violence incidnets. Ask him why alcohol should remain legal?

yeah i've tried that argument.

he says that "alcohol can be used in moderation without any negative consequences, but that's not the same with drugs"

never mind the fact that yeah, alcohol causes more problems than all illegal drugs combined.

He's a moderately intelligent person, but when it comes to some things he's just closed to logic
 

Slidey

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The time has arisen for a Libertarian movement in Australia. Government spending is out of control and all the opposition can propose is giant welfare schemes-conservation corps etc. All young liberty minded individuals come forth! Let us start a new Party on our campuses (following in the footsteps of Young americans For Liberty) with annual national meetings. Any ideas???


END STATISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*facepalm*
 
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If the majority of Libertarians weren't so fucking nauseating and lacking in considered judgement, I would probably call myself one.

That is what holds the movement back: that there are so many aspie right-wing young lib "libertarians" who only care about making sure their daddies don't have to pay taxes but don't give a shit about the "undesirables" of society or social freedom in general.
plussssss one
 

Riet

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If the majority of Libertarians weren't so fucking nauseating and lacking in considered judgement, I would probably call myself one.

That is what holds the movement back: that there are so many aspie right-wing young lib "libertarians" who only care about making sure their daddies don't have to pay taxes but don't give a shit about the "undesirables" of society or social freedom in general.
hate them, they aren't libertarians they are just right wing cunts. A piece of shit by any other name...
 

BlackDragon

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I think that people who preach the extreme right should be thought of no differently to people who preach the extreme left, totalitarianism. There are very few people who still want the latter in the west, and there shouldn't be anyone who wants anarchism either. That doesn't mean that reasonable people who are strongly left or right are bad at all, its just that it can be scary when the people hold views towards the far end of the spectrum beyond all reason. People who are fine with adjusting their views are okay.
 
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SylviaB

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I think that people who preach the extreme right should be thought of no differently to people who preach the extreme left, totalitarianism. There are very few people who still want the latter in the west, and there shouldn't be anyone who wants anarchism either. That doesn't mean that reasonable people who are strongly left or right are bad at all, its just that it can be scary when the people hold views towards the far end of the spectrum beyond all reason. People who are fine with adjusting their views are okay.

the fact that you would even compre totalitarianism with anarchism is a testament to your lack of knowlege on the subject
 
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BlackDragon

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I wasn't drawing any parallels between them except for the fact that they are both very undesirable. And you don't know me at all so you don't really have any idea what I have studied and what I have not.
 
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redmayne

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Yeah dude even I know there's the LDP already, and I don't see the libertarian movement as anything but a bunch of conservative pseudo-anarchist types. But good luck with the whole starting a national political revival on a student internet forum thing.

There are annoying people in any policial/ideological movement.

Smug, spoiled, selfish conservatives. Desperate socialist hacks. Blind libertarians. Irritating, whining environmentalists. Except all movements have their merits, except when you get to the extremes.

It just so happens that libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism/anarchism are all really quite stupid. At least in their pure forms.
 

SylviaB

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you say this a hell of a lot but ive never seen you, you know actually REFUTE libertarian arguments


ffs


@redmayne btw
 

SylviaB

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Their extremism is blind, which is dangerous.

blind

yeah i mean there's no evidence of how a lack of freedom has been bad before

that is, if you disregard ALL of human history
 

redmayne

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you say this a hell of a lot but ive never seen you, you know actually REFUTE libertarian arguments


ffs


@redmayne btw
There's not actually a hell of a lot of argument refuting going on in this thread actually.

Libertarianism is the epitome of impractical. It's a naive dream. Sure, we'd all like to be able to do whatever we like without rules. But it doesn't work that way. Unrestricted rights of one person in a certain area will always infringe on those of another person in another area. The law and order government brings is the practical implementation of compromise. It is implemented with the idea of safety and security for all in mind, albeit with a few downsides.

Libertarianism is one big downside. It's childish. So childish to believe that individuals' morals and sense will triumph over the perils of absolute freedom.

I see and hear about practical examples every day of my life where rules, rights and responsibilities are absolutely essential. And it occurs to me how disastrous these situations would be in a libertarian world.
 

cp3

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Well i do consider myself a libertarian though not the same as what this 'libertarian philosophy' entails. I'm whats considered more a 'social libertarian' and personally believe in personal/social freedom just like all libertarians, though on the economic side of things, i believe capitalism to be inherently exploitative and that it will eventually be dismantled by a post-scarcity state due to technological prowess.

Capitalism has done alot of good for the world and is alot better then other economic systems we've had in history (feudalism, warlordism, merchantilism etc) though if we are to progress as a society, the inherent flaws of capitalism: the inability of the free market to regulate the distribution of weath and its inefficiencies in 'market failure' with respect to enviromental issues etc are massive flaws that need to be addressed in our current age. A socialist democracy in which the factors of production and capital are in the public which allow the full creative potential of human beings to be realised would be alot better. This would probably take a while as the technological ability of society is not at a capacity to allow for a techno-utopian society so capitalism will have to do for now. Though it should be more keynesian with regulative measures to stop the concentration of wealth getting smaller amount high classed individuals.

The common argument for capitalism is the whole 'greed/profit' incentive that pretty much states that productive capacity and an increase in the overall standard of living will not increase unless people are acting in their own self interests. But what capitalism produces is the desire for the accumulation of wealth and profits, without rather the 'need' for a specific commodity or entity. The aim of capitalism is to make a profit, not make society better in general, that comes as a side benefit of the profit incentive. To say that its in 'human nature' to be greedy is fallacious and unwittingly creates the subconcious belief on how humans must be, therefore effectively creating that greedy narcassitic nature.

Its impossible to make a statement on human nature as we have seen through technological and societal progression, the average human conciousness has changed considerably. Thomas Hobbes believed it would be impossible for humans to survive without a monarchy as they would become anarchic, maybe so true in that era, but if it wasn't for the constant reformations and revolutions of political visionaries, the true potential of humans wouldn't be further realised. As the advent of parlimentarianism, though we still have a long way to go and a constant evolution of our economic and social ideas must be done if we are to move foward. And a right wing libertarian unregulated capitalistic system would move humans further into explotation and would destory years of workplace regulations that have served as human betterment. (8 hour working days, no slave labour, child labour). Though we can see in countries like colombia, workers are exploited in coca cola factories due to the absence of workplac reforms that serve human interest rather than profit incentives. Self management factories in argentina have shown (zanon, brukman etc) that neo-classical, capitalistic economics cannot be deemed to be always correct in all contexts and the whole profit incentive goes to an obilivion in that country. So before i write down anymore since i have to go, i think a libertarian movment in which is advocated in this thread would be dangerous for the evolution and advancement of the human race.
 
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