Atar question (not estimation) (2 Viewers)

[_deloso]

Subjects: Physics, chemistry, maths2unit, maths ext.1, advanced English, sor2unit

So i'm currently averaging at around 80-90% in my assessments except english (50-60) and maths ext 1 (50%)

1. If I get band 6's in phys, sor, chem and maths and perhaps band 4-5 in english and band e2-band e3 in ext maths, can I still achieve an atar of 90+? beacuse I know a riend last year who basically failed most of his subject but got band 5's in his hsc externals and received an atar of 80.

2. If I come in the top 5 for my subs after the trials, can I overtake the students ahead of me if I do better than them? apparently, the students in front of me receives my mark if I get better marks? that's so stupid!

 

[Alkanes]

All comes down to the ranks at the end of the day.

 

[enoilgam]

For question 1, try experimenting with an ATAR calculator, because they can give a far more accurate answer to your scenario

For question 2, Yes, you can definitely overtake the people ranked ahead of you, provided that you do better in your externals then they do. Your internal marks will be based on the HSC exam marks of your cohort. For example, the following are the final internal rankings for a subject:

1st - Person A
2nd - Person B
3rd - Person C

In the HSC, the class scored as follows

Person C - 90
Person B - 80
Person A - 70

In this scenario, Person A would recieve 90 as his internal mark, 70 as his HSC mark and a final mark of 80 (the average of his internal and external marks). Person C would recieve 70 as his internal mark, 90 as his HSC mark and a final mark of 80. Finally person B would recieve 80 as his internal mark, 80 as his HSC mark and a final mark of 80.

I hope that answers your question

 

[Shadowdude]

For question 1, try experimenting with an ATAR calculator, because they can give a far more accurate answer to your scenario

For question 2, Yes, you can definitely overtake the people ranked ahead of you, provided that you do better in your externals then they do. Your internal marks will be based on the HSC exam marks of your cohort. For example, the following are the final internal rankings for a subject:

1st - Person A
2nd - Person B
3rd - Person C

In the HSC, the class scored as follows

Person C - 90
Person B - 80
Person A - 70

In this scenario, Person A would recieve 90 as his internal mark, 70 as his HSC mark and a final mark of 80 (the average of his internal and external marks). Person C would recieve 70 as his internal mark, 90 as his HSC mark and a final mark of 80. Finally person B would recieve 80 as his internal mark, 80 as his HSC mark and a final mark of 80.

I hope that answers your question

Your HSC scenario is wrong because it doesn't take into account the gaps between assessment marks which is also factored into moderating the school assessment.

But as an overall and very vague example, it works.

 

[enoilgam]

Dont the gaps have to be significant for them to factor it in?

 

[Riproot]

You do the exact same subjects as my friend except you're doing better in Chem than him and he will get 90+. So, looks fine.

 

[Shadowdude]

Dont the gaps have to be significant for them to factor it in?

Then define 'significant'. That raises problems in itself.

In my belief, they factor all gaps - whether 0.01 to 99.9 away. That's how they moderate the marks.

Suppose a three-person class had internal marks: 99, 98, 97.
Then the HSC exam marks were: 99, 65, 30.

Is it fair that the person who was 1 mark away internally gets 65 as their 'moderated' mark because it's the second highest mark in the grade? No, because that doesn't reflect the principles of moderation which is to moderate up or down a cohort's school assessment marks to the best mark in the cohort and to take into account the gaps between them to create a general estimate on how the class would go.

 

[enoilgam]

In that hypothetical I would agree with you that the BOS would alter the marks due to the distribution. However for me in HSC economics, I was beaten for 4th place by 0.3%. When we got our HSC results back, the person who beat me got an internal mark which was 4 marks higher then me.

When I say significant, I'd assume that in my original scenario, if the students were separated by 0.5% each, then the marks would probably be changed to reflect the actual closeness of the internal scores.

I probably should have made that clear i my first post, but since it is unlikely that the marks would be so distributed that the BOS would have to make an adjustment, I left it out.

 

[Shadowdude]

In that hypothetical I would agree with you that the BOS would alter the marks due to the distribution. However for me in HSC economics, I was beaten for 4th place by 0.3%. When we got our HSC results back, the person who beat me got an internal mark which was 4 marks higher then me.

When I say significant, I'd assume that in my original scenario, if the students were separated by 0.5% each, then the marks would probably be changed to reflect the actual closeness of the internal scores.

I probably should have made that clear i my first post, but since it is unlikely that the marks would be so distributed that the BOS would have to make an adjustment, I left it out.

When you say 'internal mark' - out of interest - that is the 'school moderated mark'?

 

[enoilgam]

Yes, the one on my actual HSC results. Not sure of the exact name of it

 

[Shadowdude]

You could be reading a different number then. If you can definitely confirm that phenomenon - then there'll be a little self-searching for answers from me.

 

[enoilgam]

On my HSC results I had an internal mark, external mark and final mark. Thats the internal mark I am referring to. I remember that I missed out on 4th by 0.3% because initially the school ranked me equal 4th because of rounding. However, when the results were sent into the BOS, I was dropped to 5th. When I called my school to inform them of the error, they told me that the BOS had ranked me 5th because of the 0.3% difference in our scores.

 

[Shadowdude]

And you're sure the other guy got 4 marks higher in the 'internal' mark?

 

[enoilgam]

Yes, very sure. I remember thinking "I shoulda argued harder for extra marks in my trial". It was similar in SOR because my best mate was ranked one place behind me and his percentage was about 3-5 lower then mine but his final internal SOR mark was only one behind me. But I think BOS alters the mark only if there is a significant disparity.

 

[Shadowdude]

Hmm... and where were you ranked in all this? Because it could just be freakish moderation based on the top mark.

 

[enoilgam]

In SOR I was 4th and my mate was 5th. In the HSC I scored like 3 or 4 marks higher then him. I was always under the impression that if your coming say 3rd in a subject internally, then your final internal mark will be the same as the HSC exam mark of the person who finished 3rd externally.

 

[Shadowdude]

In SOR I was 4th and my mate was 5th. In the HSC I scored like 3 or 4 marks higher then him. I was always under the impression that if your coming say 3rd in a subject internally, then your final internal mark will be the same as the HSC exam mark of the person who finished 3rd externally.

Yeah, it could be some sort of freakish moderation. If your marks were very close together and then the 1st placed person had a super mark - it could really skew that mapping of marks.

 

[Hermes1]

In SOR I was 4th and my mate was 5th. In the HSC I scored like 3 or 4 marks higher then him. I was always under the impression that if your coming say 3rd in a subject internally, then your final internal mark will be the same as the HSC exam mark of the person who finished 3rd externally.

i was under the same impression

 

[Shadowdude]

If you compose some examples - you'll find that that kind of system is pretty silly.

And, it would also mean the set of all HSC external marks would be exactly the same as the set of all HSC moderated assessment marks for a cohort - which, if you look around, isn't happening.

 

[Hermes1]

If you compose some examples - you'll find that that kind of system is pretty silly.

And, it would also mean the set of all HSC external marks would be exactly the same as the set of all HSC moderated assessment marks for a cohort - which, if you look around, isn't happening.

so shadowdude, theres a guy at my skool who is currently coming first and is way ahead internally (in mx2). im ranked third and am a fair bit behind him, lets just say i become 2nd ranked after trials and i get the same exam mark as him, lets say 97 in hsc. does that mean i wont get 97 bcuz u say they take into account gaps, does that mean my internal mark will be reduced?