Qantas Grounds Entire Fleet (3 Viewers)

[abbeyroad]

Linky linky

http://www.smh.com.au/business/investors-cheer-qantas-decision-20111031-1mqy9.html
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8367453/fair-work-order-to-get-qantas-back-in-air
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QMVVUO0.htm

While the ALAEA says its next step after going back to work will be to stop the airline's push into Asia, Mr Joyce says the future for Qantas lies in participating in Asia.

He says negotiations with unions won't restrict the airline from setting up an Asian carrier.

"An Asian carrier will not cost one Australian job," he said.

And he's confident his own job is safe as well.

"I've had full endorsement for what we've done and I've been overwhelmed by the support from the business community," Mr Joyce told reporters on Monday.

"They knew that Qantas's survival was at risk and we had to do something that turned this around."

He said it had been the right decision to ground the airline in a bid to stop the ongoing industrial action that was costing the airline $15 million a week.

Although grounding all 108 planes had cost $20 million a day, it saved the airline in the long run, he said.

The court ruling is a major victory in the airline's battle with unions representing pilots, aircraft mechanics, baggage handlers and caterers, whose rolling strikes have forced the cancellation of 600 flights in recent months, disrupted travel for 70,000 passengers and cost Qantas 70 million Australian dollars

 

[Lentern]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/investors-cheer-qantas-decision-20111031-1mqy9.html
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8367453/fair-work-order-to-get-qantas-back-in-air
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QMVVUO0.htm

Alright, I'll accept the 70 million dollar figure, that makes it $170 million Qantas have squandered in their mean spirited, bitchy little game with the unions, I mean, did I hear a major part of the dispute pertained to uniforms?

You'll also note the same articles you linked speculated about the damage this has done to Qantas image, customer loyalty etc. The biggest winner of the affair was undoubtedly Virgin Airlines.

As to the other points you raised, my understanding is that Joyce has repeatedly denied that this is part of a dodgy little outsourcing scheme like the one you articulated.

Ultimately all we can do is speculate, it remains to be seen whether Qantas will make back that 170 million with its new-found austerity, I will be astonished if they do. Why did shareholders invest in Lehman Brothers? Or ABC Learning? Or Borders?

 

[Garygaz]

albeit the unions are also taking part in their own 'mean spirited, bitchy little game'. i mean, the airline industry has to be internationally competitive, and if you've been following qantas' profits/share price you'd realise its current business scheme wasn't working. outsourcing jobs? well that's an eventuality of globalisation, we just can't compete. what is alan joyce's job? to be the guy who sticks up for aussie jobs and gives everyone a pay rise or is it to make his business as profitable as possible. you can argue semantics about the action he took to ground his fleet but the unions definitely would have kept on striking.

unions are such dog shit, ugh

 

[abbeyroad]

smash the unions by giving your workers shares in the company

your job or your profit/dividends

tough choice

 

[cheese_cheese]

If Joyce maintains that setting up an Asian airline offshoot won't cost a single Australian job (as he has been quoted as saying a few times now), then why does he not simply agree to the demands by the unions about job security for Australian workers (and not being lost to workers overseas in Asia)?

 

[funkshen]

i certainly wouldn't want to be paid in stock or options. executives are responsible for maximising shareholder value, so wouldn't a better approach be some kind of qantas employee mutual fund? it would double as a voting bloc.

 

[Lentern]

albeit the unions are also taking part in their own 'mean spirited, bitchy little game'. i mean, the airline industry has to be internationally competitive, and if you've been following qantas' profits/share price you'd realise its current business scheme wasn't working. outsourcing jobs? well that's an eventuality of globalisation, we just can't compete. what is alan joyce's job? to be the guy who sticks up for aussie jobs and gives everyone a pay rise or is it to make his business as profitable as possible. you can argue semantics about the action he took to ground his fleet but the unions definitely would have kept on striking.

unions are such dog shit, ugh

You imply they won't have a different gambit up their sleeves. At any rate I am an internationalist, I have no problems with Australian jobs going overseas provided the overseas employee is still paid a reasonable wage for the work completed, and don't try and tell me that's going to happen with this asia thingy which he's denying.

 

[funkshen]

what's a reasonable wage?

 

[Lentern]

what's a reasonable wage?

Depends on the specific job performed, but don't mistake pedantic for clever, you know that this will be exploitative.

 

[funkshen]

the average salary for a jetstar asia pilot is 9000SGD/mo. the average household income in singapore is around 4700SGD/mo.

assuming that the qantas model seeks to roughly replicate the jetstar asia model, is this reasonable enough for you? it doesn't seem like there is much exploitation going on, just a whole lot of australian self interest.

 

[Lentern]

the average salary for a jetstar asia pilot is 9000SGD/mo. the average household income in singapore is around 4700SGD/mo.

assuming that the qantas model seeks to roughly replicate the jetstar asia model, is this reasonable enough for you? it doesn't seem like there is much exploitation going on, just a whole lot of australian self interest.

So they'd be getting a tenth or less of what a western pilot would get paid. And you don't find that exploitative?

 

[Blastus]

So they'd be getting a tenth or less of what a western pilot would get paid. And you don't find that exploitative?

Competitive advantage. If they're getting paid substantially more than the cost of living etc etc...

 

[Blastus]

Either way the Unions have had their back broken on this issue, speaking to one of the legal representatives from the Unions they informed me they basically have to take whatever offer qantas makes them and will be unable to perform any industrial action for the next three years.

 

[boris]

a win for decency

 

[Lentern]

Competitive advantage. If they're getting paid substantially more than the cost of living etc etc...

But the low cost of living is largely brought on by the low standard of living.

 

[funkshen]

sorry non-australian pilots, you don't have lentern's permission to earn ~$84,000AUD a year, because that's exploitation.

 

[Lentern]

sorry non-australian pilots, you don't have lentern's permission to earn ~$84,000AUD a year, because that's exploitation.

Don't put the onus on the workers you wanker, Very clearly i was referring to the execs.

 

[funkshen]

Don't put the onus on the workers you wanker, Very clearly i was referring to the execs.

So they'd be getting a tenth or less of what a western pilot would get paid. And you don't find that exploitative?

no you weren't. and they wouldn't even be getting paid a tenth, its more like a half to a third depending on who you are. qantas will offer competitive rates and bid up wages. where's the exploitation?

 

[boris]

i havent seen execs mentioned once in discussions about overseas salaries v australian salaries

 

[Lentern]

no you weren't. and they wouldn't even be getting paid a tenth, its more like a half to a third depending on who you are. qantas will offer competitive rates and bid up wages. where's the exploitation?

I didn't use the 9000 a year figure someone else did.