Is sex with someone who is intoxicated rape/sexual assault? (2 Viewers)

[I Study Hard]

hard to gauge, though

It's a case by case kind of thing IMO.
But my thoughts are, you'd have to have severely impaired judgement.

 

[a c]

Outside of social and individual coercion, I would never have “chosen” to have sex with men. That is not to say that I would never have experienced genital arousal in men’s presence, although I suspect that much of that response is also conditioned. It is only to say that the act of allowing a man to penetrate my body with his penis or fingers or anything else really would never have occurred me, certainly not with any sense of pleasure.

I was not what one might consider a sheltered child. My mother was always very frank about sex and reproduction. I knew that men had penises and women had vaginas from a very young age. However, I did not associate this knowledge with my own sensations of genital arousal. Despite knowing that I must also have a vagina, I never thought about nor was I even really physically aware of my internal reproductive anatomy until I began bleeding out of it. It never occurred to me that the act of a man putting his penis inside a vagina had anything whatsoever to do with pleasure, since I never required a penis to get pleasure out of my genitals (I didn’t know the word ‘vulva’ until I was in my teens, but that is the only part of my genitals I actually was aware of). I assumed intercourse was something people only did if and when they wanted children.

By the time I began “consenting” to intercourse, I had been thoroughly brainwashed, by the culture in general and by specific males in particular.

I do not consider the “consent” I gave while under patriarchal delusions to have been legitimate. I believe that the males who took advantage of my training have as much responsibility to ensure that a woman is not submitting out of culturally instilled obligation as they do to ensure that she isn’t drunk or otherwise unable to give meaningful consent. But I understand that males will never behave in a manner that reduces the pool of “willing” women.

This is what makes men rapists. They will use any pretense as sufficient proof of consent, when the truth is that consent is impossible under patriarchy. That men and male-identified women continue to harp on the unverified existence of a few women on the planet who would seek out penile intercourse (which puts them at higher risk of STD’s than men, while simultaneously putting them at risk for pregnancy) in the absence of any training toward an obligation to engage in heterosexual PIV intercourse, is ridiculous to me. It’s not as if the men fucking those famed and fabled born-to-let-men-masturbate-into-them women aren’t also fucking a lot of women who’d reject them out of hand if not for the brainwashing.

A man’s not being a rapist in one highly unlikely circumstance (fucking a woman whose consent is not mitigated by social/individual coercion) doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not he’s a rapist in other more likely circumstances (that the woman he’s fucking is “consenting” to it out of obligation - to social norms or to economic interests). Because I believe the number of women not affected by socialization when making the decision to fuck men is very low, and because I believe that the men who are fucking those rare women are also likely to be fucking or to have fucked women who undeniably *are* affected by social training, I feel quite safe in saying that all men are rapists.

All men are rapists.

 

[Annihilist]

Outside of social and individual coercion, I would never have “chosen” to have sex with men. That is not to say that I would never have experienced genital arousal in men’s presence, although I suspect that much of that response is also conditioned. It is only to say that the act of allowing a man to penetrate my body with his penis or fingers or anything else really would never have occurred me, certainly not with any sense of pleasure.

I was not what one might consider a sheltered child. My mother was always very frank about sex and reproduction. I knew that men had penises and women had vaginas from a very young age. However, I did not associate this knowledge with my own sensations of genital arousal. Despite knowing that I must also have a vagina, I never thought about nor was I even really physically aware of my internal reproductive anatomy until I began bleeding out of it. It never occurred to me that the act of a man putting his penis inside a vagina had anything whatsoever to do with pleasure, since I never required a penis to get pleasure out of my genitals (I didn’t know the word ‘vulva’ until I was in my teens, but that is the only part of my genitals I actually was aware of). I assumed intercourse was something people only did if and when they wanted children.

By the time I began “consenting” to intercourse, I had been thoroughly brainwashed, by the culture in general and by specific males in particular.

I do not consider the “consent” I gave while under patriarchal delusions to have been legitimate. I believe that the males who took advantage of my training have as much responsibility to ensure that a woman is not submitting out of culturally instilled obligation as they do to ensure that she isn’t drunk or otherwise unable to give meaningful consent. But I understand that males will never behave in a manner that reduces the pool of “willing” women.

This is what makes men rapists. They will use any pretense as sufficient proof of consent, when the truth is that consent is impossible under patriarchy. That men and male-identified women continue to harp on the unverified existence of a few women on the planet who would seek out penile intercourse (which puts them at higher risk of STD’s than men, while simultaneously putting them at risk for pregnancy) in the absence of any training toward an obligation to engage in heterosexual PIV intercourse, is ridiculous to me. It’s not as if the men fucking those famed and fabled born-to-let-men-masturbate-into-them women aren’t also fucking a lot of women who’d reject them out of hand if not for the brainwashing.

A man’s not being a rapist in one highly unlikely circumstance (fucking a woman whose consent is not mitigated by social/individual coercion) doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not he’s a rapist in other more likely circumstances (that the woman he’s fucking is “consenting” to it out of obligation - to social norms or to economic interests). Because I believe the number of women not affected by socialization when making the decision to fuck men is very low, and because I believe that the men who are fucking those rare women are also likely to be fucking or to have fucked women who undeniably *are* affected by social training, I feel quite safe in saying that all men are rapists.

All men are rapists.

*opens mouth to say something*
*thinks better of it and walks away*

 

[Shadowdude]

*opens mouth to say something*
*thinks better of it and walks away*

There's a gif of it I remember here but I forgot to save the link

 

[Shadowdude]

the one snowfox always posts?

Yes! That one.

Amazing GIF.

 

[kfnmpah]

how does this thread still exist?

what wrong you guys? how about just don't do creepy things? (i know this will be difficult, but just try really hard)

 

[Lolsmith]

Outside of social and individual coercion, I would never have “chosen” to have sex with men. That is not to say that I would never have experienced genital arousal in men’s presence, although I suspect that much of that response is also conditioned. It is only to say that the act of allowing a man to penetrate my body with his penis or fingers or anything else really would never have occurred me, certainly not with any sense of pleasure.

I was not what one might consider a sheltered child. My mother was always very frank about sex and reproduction. I knew that men had penises and women had vaginas from a very young age. However, I did not associate this knowledge with my own sensations of genital arousal. Despite knowing that I must also have a vagina, I never thought about nor was I even really physically aware of my internal reproductive anatomy until I began bleeding out of it. It never occurred to me that the act of a man putting his penis inside a vagina had anything whatsoever to do with pleasure, since I never required a penis to get pleasure out of my genitals (I didn’t know the word ‘vulva’ until I was in my teens, but that is the only part of my genitals I actually was aware of). I assumed intercourse was something people only did if and when they wanted children.

By the time I began “consenting” to intercourse, I had been thoroughly brainwashed, by the culture in general and by specific males in particular.

I do not consider the “consent” I gave while under patriarchal delusions to have been legitimate. I believe that the males who took advantage of my training have as much responsibility to ensure that a woman is not submitting out of culturally instilled obligation as they do to ensure that she isn’t drunk or otherwise unable to give meaningful consent. But I understand that males will never behave in a manner that reduces the pool of “willing” women.

This is what makes men rapists. They will use any pretense as sufficient proof of consent, when the truth is that consent is impossible under patriarchy. That men and male-identified women continue to harp on the unverified existence of a few women on the planet who would seek out penile intercourse (which puts them at higher risk of STD’s than men, while simultaneously putting them at risk for pregnancy) in the absence of any training toward an obligation to engage in heterosexual PIV intercourse, is ridiculous to me. It’s not as if the men fucking those famed and fabled born-to-let-men-masturbate-into-them women aren’t also fucking a lot of women who’d reject them out of hand if not for the brainwashing.

A man’s not being a rapist in one highly unlikely circumstance (fucking a woman whose consent is not mitigated by social/individual coercion) doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not he’s a rapist in other more likely circumstances (that the woman he’s fucking is “consenting” to it out of obligation - to social norms or to economic interests). Because I believe the number of women not affected by socialization when making the decision to fuck men is very low, and because I believe that the men who are fucking those rare women are also likely to be fucking or to have fucked women who undeniably *are* affected by social training, I feel quite safe in saying that all men are rapists.

All men are rapists.

 

[Shadowdude]

Is that... Jeff Bridges?

 

[Lolsmith]

That is The Dude you heathen

 

[funkshen]

no, its the dude, el duderino, his dudeness

 

[jrae1992]

If someone is unable to give consent due to the fact that they decided to become intoxicated, and can therefore cry rape, what about drink driving?
Someone who drives under the influence of alcohol or another substance has their judgement impaired, so using the logic of current laws, shouldn't drink drivers also be protected? I mean, it isn't their fault that they made a silly choice is it?

(Only referring to cases where "consent" is given while intoxicated)

 

[Ivorytw]

Other drivers aren't aware of said persons inebriation so the comparison is completely flawed.

 

[jrae1992]

That would only apply if one party was deliberately taking advantage of the other party.
In the event when neither party is trying to take advantage of the other, the fact that they are intoxicated becomes irrelevant, assuming that they are both unable to make a decision free from impairment.

 

[mirakon]

Big lebowski

Great movie

 

[Lolsmith]

If someone is unable to give consent due to the fact that they decided to become intoxicated, and can therefore cry rape, what about drink driving?
Someone who drives under the influence of alcohol or another substance has their judgement impaired, so using the logic of current laws, shouldn't drink drivers also be protected? I mean, it isn't their fault that they made a silly choice is it?

(Only referring to cases where "consent" is given while intoxicated)

These two situations are not even remotely analogous

 

[lpower3]

hahahahahha this thread reminds me of a classic story!

at this chick at my schools 18th and everyone was wasted, anyway this bitch from school started fucking some guy and then half way through she yelled out "what the fuck, why are you raping me?". anyway, because she didnt want to seem like an even bigger slut then she already is, she started accusing this dude of rape... anyway, over the next few days the dude was copping all sorts of shit from the slut and all her slutty friends, so the dude decided to play a few games... DUM DUM DUUUUUUM. so anyway, he spread a rumour about himself that he had chlamydia which the whole school soon found out.. eventually the slut found out and proceeded to have everyone in the school think she has chlamydia - thus resulting in no-one wanting to go anywhere near her.
ahahhahaha

 

[Annihilist]

hahahahahha this thread reminds me of a classic story!

at this chick at my schools 18th and everyone was wasted, anyway this bitch from school started fucking some guy and then half way through she yelled out "what the fuck, why are you raping me?". anyway, because she didnt want to seem like an even bigger slut then she already is, she started accusing this dude of rape... anyway, over the next few days the dude was copping all sorts of shit from the slut and all her slutty friends, so the dude decided to play a few games... DUM DUM DUUUUUUM. so anyway, he spread a rumour about himself that he had chlamydia which the whole school soon found out.. eventually the slut found out and proceeded to have everyone in the school think she has chlamydia - thus resulting in no-one wanting to go anywhere near her.
ahahhahaha

Haha, fucking high school kids. That's hilarious.

 

[lpower3]

Haha, fucking high school kids. That's hilarious.

sarcasm? or...
either way, it created a massive shitstorm in our year but god damm it was funny aha

 

[Shadowdude]

Haha, fucking high school kids. That's hilarious.

i see what you did there

 

[Annihilist]

sarcasm? or...
either way, it created a massive shitstorm in our year but god damm it was funny aha

Not sarcasm. I hate the immature banter of high school social life so this was actually a pretty funny story.

i see what you did there

Definitely not an accident.

EDIT:

And if someone under 15 years of age gives consent is it technically still consent?

No, because they aren't in the right state of mind (they aren't mature enough) to give consent.

I can't believe I missed this:

I don't agree with the notion that when you turn 16 you are suddenly "mature enough" to consent to have sex. It's such an arbitrary figure - and, as a legal restriction, it has to be arbitrary. But I don't understand why someone under 16 can't give consent "just because they're not old enough" to be considered mature enough to have sex.

I don't think that creating a legal "age of consent" is going to solve any problems. I know plenty of people under 16 who have lots of sex and they are quite mature. I also know some people of the same age who should not be considering sex at all. I know people over 16 who should definitely NOT be considered mature enough to have sex.

I think we need to stop putting legal restrictions on everything and educate young people so they have the information to be mature and make mature decisions for themselves regardless of age.

(I edited this into an existing post so as to not needlessly bump this thread)