Please see this, letter to adrian piccoli, minister of education (1 Viewer)

[LoveHateSchool]

I don't think it's much point.. btw uni's do justify the fact about this indirectly. They offer bonus points to people who do well in the 'assumed knowledge' that is needed to get a full understanding of the course. So if english dragged you down, the bonus points can still save you. ATAR is just a number, you need a goal. Your goal is not to get a 99.95 ATAR because it sounds good/nice. You need to be realistic and see the cut offs for the courses you want to enter.

Besides I was told, once you enter uni, no one bothers to ask about your ATAR anymore. I think it's true, because then it's whether you pass your courses or not, nobody will care if you're a 99.95 student because if you can't pass the course then that is your fault and you need to redo it. What's past is past, and it's not like a high ATAR will make you famous in the first year of uni anyway because it will be easily forgotten. There's no need to idolise a high ATAR as something everyone should acheive, only ~40 people in the state will get it, and all that matters is that it is used for university admission, and once it's purpose is done it's done.

so basically I'm saying there's no point setting a unclear goal to get a 99+ ATAR if you don't know what you're going to do anyway, just because it sounds good and easy and effective to brag about for 3 months or so.


plus you aren't seeming to do bad at school anyway, you're just too worried about the 99.95 ATAR and english going to drag you down. English drags everyone down, everyone's doing it. You should be happy that you're going to get an ATAR to get into uni anyway, as people with ATARs <40 won't. There's just too much hype and overratedness over the ATAR being the sole determinator of your career and life, there's stuff such as alternative pathways and mature entry, and there's always TAFE. So even if you get a lower ATAR than what you were going for, you can still take alternative pathways to do the course you wanted, just that it takes longer time that's all. Your life isn't going to collapse once you get an 85 ATAR, because you can still do lots of courses in uni with it than a person with a 70. It's still a great ATAR, I mean you beat 85% of the state.

You should be happy and prepared if you want to do well for your goals, just don't make a tentative one such as getting the 'perfect' 99.95 because it sounds good and flashy and you don't even know what you're doing for uni. You don't even need that high if you are not doing law or med as it is kind of unnecessary. No job interview is going to ask for your ATAR, as it wears off in less than a year, and they're looking for your skills and education rather than a number that screams 'perfect', because that doesn't mean anything after your course is offered.

And realise nothing, 85 ATAR is at 85th percentile of yr 7 cohort so when you take out those who drop out, you're still well above average with an ATAR of 85!

 

[nifkeh]

An ATAR of 85 beats ~25% of the state iirc.



lol he is already semi-known anyway. He just needs to fulfil his IQ tendencies.

Hmm.. I revisited the UAC's ATAR booklet thingy here: click

if you scroll down, it says "Elizabeth’s ATAR is 81.70.

This means that Elizabeth did well enough overall to perform better than 81.70 per cent of her Year 7 cohort."

so a 85 ATAR means you beat 85% of your year 7 cohort, it is the 25th percentile.. from what you mean, that will suggest a 99.95 ATAR would beat 0.05% of the year 7 cohort and a 30 ATAR would beat 70% percent of the year 7 cohort which is wrong

 

[Sy123]

I don't think it's much point.. btw uni's do justify the fact about this indirectly. They offer bonus points to people who do well in the 'assumed knowledge' that is needed to get a full understanding of the course. So if english dragged you down, the bonus points can still save you. ATAR is just a number, you need a goal. Your goal is not to get a 99.95 ATAR because it sounds good/nice. You need to be realistic and see the cut offs for the courses you want to enter.

Besides I was told, once you enter uni, no one bothers to ask about your ATAR anymore. I think it's true, because then it's whether you pass your courses or not, nobody will care if you're a 99.95 student because if you can't pass the course then that is your fault and you need to redo it. What's past is past, and it's not like a high ATAR will make you famous in the first year of uni anyway because it will be easily forgotten. There's no need to idolise a high ATAR as something everyone should acheive, only ~40 people in the state will get it, and all that matters is that it is used for university admission, and once it's purpose is done it's done.

so basically I'm saying there's no point setting a unclear goal to get a 99+ ATAR if you don't know what you're going to do anyway, just because it sounds good and easy and effective to brag about for 3 months or so.


plus you aren't seeming to do bad at school anyway, you're just too worried about the 99.95 ATAR and english going to drag you down. English drags everyone down, everyone's doing it. You should be happy that you're going to get an ATAR to get into uni anyway, as people with ATARs <40 won't. There's just too much hype and overratedness over the ATAR being the sole determinator of your career and life, there's stuff such as alternative pathways and mature entry, and there's always TAFE. So even if you get a lower ATAR than what you were going for, you can still take alternative pathways to do the course you wanted, just that it takes longer time that's all. Your life isn't going to collapse once you get an 85 ATAR, because you can still do lots of courses in uni with it than a person with a 70. It's still a great ATAR, I mean you beat 85% of the state.

You should be happy and prepared if you want to do well for your goals, just don't make a tentative one such as getting the 'perfect' 99.95 because it sounds good and flashy and you don't even know what you're doing for uni. You don't even need that high if you are not doing law or med as it is kind of unnecessary. No job interview is going to ask for your ATAR, as it wears off in less than a year, and they're looking for your skills and education rather than a number that screams 'perfect', because that doesn't mean anything after your course is offered.

Its this laid back attitude that I can survive on the minimum and that there are many pathways and alot of opportunities in life that prevent people from succeeding. Best have the all or nothing attitude in order for motivation and discipline (whether its true or not) to be able to get into a high atar course.

 

[JINOUGA]

oh lol. Well, you still need to do well in the UMAT, and also ace your interview. In interviews they're looking for a certain characteristic in responses for the student intake. There's not much point getting a 99.95, if you won't get past the 2nd hurdle, the UMAT and will get into Med Science which only requires ~90. You will need to get by transferring in uni from that course


Plus ranting on how english drags your ATAR down won't do much because the aim of making English compulsory was to ensure professionals that graduated from uni could speak English properly. This might sound stupid but there was a need for medical staff to communicate to patients properly, if they didn't know English, and Australia being a English speaking country, how else was effective communication going to take place? That's why it was made compulsory so that the future generation of professional graduates that were well English literate could flourish and reduce the burden on the community from having poor communication with those that were not good at English. Science and maths can only go a short way, as a MBBS you still need to communicate with others so it is crucial for the English to be good as well. So quit complaining, ace English or else consider another degree with a lower ATAR cut off

for USyd undergrad 99.95 MBBS you don't need UMAT and the interview is considered just a formality by many as the 99.95 atar requirement already cuts down enough people from even getting an interview

 

[SophxMusic]

Just jumping right into this conversation, may I mention that the ATAR is a rank, NOT a mark.
If an ATAR doesn't include any English units, then how can it be a fair indicator of rank? It would be like going into a test and not understanding a few questions, only at the end to say that nobody gets the marks for those sections, even those who did it correctly.
Even with scaling aspect aside, ATAR stands for Australian Tertiary Admission Rank. People have to accept that not everyone can get 99.95, because it is a RANK, and not a MARK. Yes, you could whinge and bitch that English is compulsory, and that it is dragging you down, but in the end, it's compulsory for everyone, so everyone has the same burden. Hell, if you don't like the pressure, drop to standard. If someone is better at English than you, all else being equal, why the hell shouldn't they be awarded a higher ATAR? Obviously, they deserve a higher rank.
I say suck it up, it's there for a reason, and if you're aiming for a 99.95 you should have the dedication to MAKE your English good.

 

[soloooooo]

Just jumping right into this conversation, may I mention that the ATAR is a rank, NOT a mark.
If an ATAR doesn't include any English units, then how can it be a fair indicator of rank? It would be like going into a test and not understanding a few questions, only at the end to say that nobody gets the marks for those sections, even those who did it correctly.
Even with scaling aspect aside, ATAR stands for Australian Tertiary Admission Rank. People have to accept that not everyone can get 99.95, because it is a RANK, and not a MARK. Yes, you could whinge and bitch that English is compulsory, and that it is dragging you down, but in the end, it's compulsory for everyone, so everyone has the same burden. Hell, if you don't like the pressure, drop to standard. If someone is better at English than you, all else being equal, why the hell shouldn't they be awarded a higher ATAR? Obviously, they deserve a higher rank.
I say suck it up, it's there for a reason, and if you're aiming for a 99.95 you should have the dedication to MAKE your English good.

This.

 

[Keelan134]

I am writing a letter to Mr Piccoli to suggest perhaps a slight change in the english syllabus for yr 12, would anyone be wanting to see what ive written and perhaps add something to it? IT DOES NOT SAY SCRAP THE WHOLE SUBJECT, It must be compulsory. However Ive thought of a structure which might be more appropriate for the majority of us. So anyone wanna read it? I will post it here if u say yes.

No mate, you do it like every other year before you, the structure isn't hard, I've done my trials and about to do my HSC, and there is no trouble in memorizing a bunch of techniques and themes for 5 essays

 

[smalik]

Anyone else though thought it was weird that Hayabusa is getting 100 in 2U, 96 in MX1, 99 in chem, 97 in physics .....and 28 in bio? and 60 in English? strange spread of marks haha

 

[BenBrownTown]

I would love to throw in my two cents.
The art of the English language in Australia is skill that is constantly being developed and improved since birth. We use these skills we learn and develop everyday for the rest of our lives, it is our basis of communication. In the real, wider community (away from HSC and education) you need the skills that have been developed to achieve employment and maintain relationships. So why take away the absolute importance of the English language, you can't judge academic performance if you diminish our one truly essential life skill. Only a false shell of intellect will be conveyed. With your imposed system/state of mind, only people with imposed intellect will make it into the high achieving courses of medicine and law. What will happen once these people have graduated? Majority will certainly not be hired as they would lack the ability to converse with their employer and more importantly their patients/clients, they won't be able to read between the lines and understand the deeper meanings of everyday happenings.

The fact that you are trying to personalize a sufficient system, so it is tailored to your own needs of acquiring the absolute top to get into an over glorified course just emphasizes your selfishness and lack of intelligence in real life. You give a strong sense that your needs come above everybody else's, you must prevail over everyone and gloat your achievements. The course of medicine is one that requires empathy for others, an inner drive to put everyone's well being first and to have complete selflessnes. Improve your own internal issues before trying to change everything to suit yourself.

 

[jackfrost]

relaxs.