What do you guys think of the Western Sydney guys supporting the hamas attack on the israelites and rallying over this? (5 Viewers)

[Rattlehead15]

ethnic cleansing it maintains in the West Bank and within its own borders.

Ethnic cleansing? What does this mean, is Israel killing Arabs who live in their own country? This is the first I've heard of that.

 

[Sam14113]

i dont really give a shit but they signed this letter: https://www.2gb.com/in-solidarity-with-palestine-aussie-unions-back-palestine/

“In accordance with the union movement’s values of peace, justice and solidarity with working people, we are horrified by the current war between Israel and Hamas and the unspeakable bloodshed and violence it has caused. This tragedy is a direct result of Israel’s blockade and siege of Gaza, and of the apartheid and ethnic cleansing it maintains in the West Bank and within its own borders.”

So yeah, they're basically condemning israel

because netanyahu really gives a shit what some australian b**h named 'O'bray Smith' has to say about israel

I know you did not write this letter and this isn't directed at you, but I do want to discuss what it says. I've been saying on this forum that the most important thing is that your opinion is informed and evaluative, rather than impulsive and emotional. The wording in this letter seems at least to me to be very impulsive and emotional. Here's what I mean:

"We are horrified" - to me being horrified is a very impulsive reaction, rather than a thoughtful evaluation after time spent researching the situation.

"unspeakable" - when someone says something is 'unspeakable', they are basically asserting that it is black and white, clear-cut, unambiguous. And as I and others have argued in previous posts, it really isn't - the situation in the Middle East is complicated, and there are many factors that have to be considered before making a judgement. No matter who you believe is in the right, you have to realise that there is nuance at play, and to me calling it 'unspeakable' downplays this nuance in its entirety.

The next sentence has some pretty serious accusations of Israel, many of which are challenged considerably after researching the situation in Gaza, the involvement of both Israel and Hamas, what a 'siege' is, what 'apartheid' was, and the population statistics of Israel by religion (noting the increase in Muslim population and decrease in Jewish population in Israel since establishment, casting doubt on the notion that Israel is "ethnically cleansing").

The point I am reiterating here is that if you want to say something, make sure you know what you're talking about and evaluate rationally, rather than impulsively share emotions. I'll respect anyone's view if they really make the effort to find information, and communicate through discussion and evaluation rather than assertion. Again, I know no that one on this forum (to the best of my ability) was a part of writing that so I'm absolutely not criticising anyone here, but I think it's so important that you substantiate anything you might say on the topic with analytical rigour, and are able to recognise when someone argues emotionally rather than rationally.

 

[SadCeliac]

The point I am reiterating here is that if you want to say something, make sure you know what you're talking about and evaluate rationally, rather than impulsively share emotions. I'll respect anyone's view if they really make the effort to find information, and communicate through discussion and evaluation rather than assertion. Again, I know no that one on this forum (to the best of my ability) was a part of writing that so I'm absolutely not criticising anyone here, but I think it's so important that you substantiate anything you might say on the topic with analytical rigour, and are able to recognise when someone argues emotionally rather than rationally.

I completely agree with you, and personally that's one of the reasons why I disagree with a few of the things being said on this thread. There seems to be very little factual and statistical evidence to back up the anti-Israel arguments, and I'd like to see something concrete that can expand my view on this situation, whereas there is a lot of logical reasoning I can see in the pro-Israel side of this debate. (my personal opinion of course, and majority based on what I've read on this forum opposing what my views are, as well as what I've read in the news)

 

[year10studentpreparin]

mate I dont see why u had to mention 'conservative muslim dude'? Like this has nothing to do with religion...

please dont lie it has a lot to do about it lmao
Hamas wants to establish an Islamic state and those other gaza groups want to enforce Sharia if they get into power lmao
Also, do you not know about the name of the Hamas campaign, its literally the name of the mosque in Israel lmao wtf are you smoking if you dont believe that religion has to do with it.
I was gonna say NO OFFENCE but I legit am more informed on this and I just go to the gym and look at the TV and my news I get is more informed than you, today I saw that some dude was calling all 'muslims around the world' to exile israeli leaders or some crap lmao

 

[year10studentpreparin]

um proof is thats my account, my mates and my uncles account got banned after we posted stories about Palestine. There r many other people experiencing same thing. Surprisingly they let the idf post whatver they want on insta. And I also appreciate that u r looking at many news sources. I dont necessarily use insta to get my news. However news always seems to reach insta before it reaches major news companies. All I wanna understand that it is stand with Ukraine when Russia invades but not stand with Palestine when Israel does?

I dont care about some stupid social media story im sorry.
link me facts, statistics and journalist reports I dont want to see some buffoon talking and showing his screenshotted copy and paste stories or whatever

 

[Rattlehead15]

please dont lie it has a lot to do about it lmao
Hamas wants to establish an Islamic state and those other gaza groups want to enforce Sharia if they get into power lmao

Especially since Hamas is a terrorist organisation, thats something a lot of media avoids saying but its the truth. Their goal is to kill Israeli civilians, this isn't a traditional war between two countries. Its a terrorist organisation acting on behalf of countries in the surrounding area (such as Iran who is disgustingly funding them) attacking a country.

 

[Rattlehead15]

I dont care about some stupid social media story im sorry.
link me facts, statistics and journalist reports I dont want to see some buffoon talking and showing his screenshotted copy and paste stories or whatever

Exactly, lots of circular reasoning going on, especially from Hamas supporters.

 

[year10studentpreparin]

Especially since Hamas is a terrorist organisation, thats something a lot of media avoids saying but its the truth. Their goal is to kill Israeli civilians, this isn't a traditional war between two countries. Its a terrorist organisation acting on behalf of countries in the surrounding area (such as Iran who is disgustingly funding them) attacking a country.

100% right

 

[year10studentpreparin]

Exactly, lots of circular reasoning going on, especially from Hamas supporters.

yeah I know man its so annoying, one person says the story or post got deleted and some other dude says the account got banned or something ....

 

[synthesisFR]

theres so much bias coming from both sides lmfao

 

[Rattlehead15]

theres so much bias coming from both sides lmfao

I mean arguably just having an opinion can be seen as a predisposed 'bias'

 

[SadCeliac]

theres so much bias coming from both sides lmfao

true but at least some sides are actively trying to see reasoning from the other side (ahem) but the other side doesn't provide actual evidence

 

[year10studentpreparin]

no way im getting my info from some

theres so much bias coming from both sides lmfao

yeah sorry but im not gonna go on instagram and tiktok like those others said and search up 'news'
Plus apparently according to them people are getting banned and 'Me Uncle got his account banned' which is funny lmao
these were the same people (tiktokers and instagrammers) who said that everyone who didnt vote Yes for the voice vote was 'uneducated and uninformed about it' when reality is aussies decided that there was not enough crucial info behind it hence a no vote

 

[year10studentpreparin]

no way im getting my info from some

yeah sorry but im not gonna go on instagram and tiktok like those others said and search up 'news'
Plus apparently according to them people are getting banned and 'Me Uncle got his account banned' which is funny lmao
these were the same people (tiktokers and instagrammers) who said that everyone who didnt vote Yes for the voice vote was 'uneducated and uninformed about it' when reality is aussies decided that there was not enough crucial info behind it hence a no vote

'yeah can you provide proof'
'no the person got banned, the post got blocked, but trust me even tho it is banned there are a lot of screenshots out there, go and see for yourslf'
I am not trying to mock them I am just wondering where is the evidence

 

[SadCeliac]

'yeah can you provide proof'
'no the person got banned, the post got blocked, but trust me even tho it is banned there are a lot of screenshots out there, go and see for yourslf'
I am not trying to mock them I am just wondering where is the evidence

That's exactly what I've been saying, and it's unfortunate because suddenly everyone who was saying 'their posts got banned' is really quiet here and not posting anything

 

[Rattlehead15]

no way im getting my info from some

yeah sorry but im not gonna go on instagram and tiktok like those others said and search up 'news'
Plus apparently according to them people are getting banned and 'Me Uncle got his account banned' which is funny lmao
these were the same people (tiktokers and instagrammers) who said that everyone who didnt vote Yes for the voice vote was 'uneducated and uninformed about it' when reality is aussies decided that there was not enough crucial info behind it hence a no vote

Before the voice people online and irl were saying if you dont vote yes, the only explanation is that you're racist. Also people tried to correlate the fact that the highly yes voted areas were the highest educated areas. Im sorry but if you get someone from Double Bay to vote on an Aboriginal affair when theyve probably never seen an Aboriginal in their life doesnt really compute. They're the same kinds of people to think Western Sydney is the scum of the Earth. But anyway, I digress, wrong political agenda.

 

[year10studentpreparin]

Before the voice people online and irl were saying if you dont vote yes, the only explanation is that you're racist. Also people tried to correlate the fact that the highly yes voted areas were the highest educated areas. Im sorry but if you get someone from Double Bay to vote on an Aboriginal affair when theyve probably never seen an Aboriginal in their life doesnt really compute. They're the same kinds of people to think Western Sydney is the scum of the Earth. But anyway, I digress, wrong political agenda.

oh man I didnt know that, that is insanely stupid from the yes voters to think that and gosh now I am glad that they lost. Youre right tho

 

[year10studentpreparin]

Before the voice people online and irl were saying if you dont vote yes, the only explanation is that you're racist. Also people tried to correlate the fact that the highly yes voted areas were the highest educated areas. Im sorry but if you get someone from Double Bay to vote on an Aboriginal affair when theyve probably never seen an Aboriginal in their life doesnt really compute. They're the same kinds of people to think Western Sydney is the scum of the Earth. But anyway, I digress, wrong political agenda.

thats pissing me off tho about the attempt to correlate the education thing

 

[Rattlehead15]

thats pissing me off tho about the attempt to correlate the education thing

People who boast about their IQ are losers
- Stephen Hawking

 

[year10studentpreparin]

t

People who boast about their IQ are losers
- Stephen Hawking

thats based