pronouns (2 Viewers)

[SylviaB]

you sound like a sheep. its wrong. you shouldnt do it. no one else should do it. but everyone is supporting a mental ilness instead of treating it. stfu.

Don't you think it's funny that the same people supporting mental illness are the ones who love black people? Ooops.

 

[nsw..wollongong]

It’s creating ur own fairytale with your ambitious attempt to ever embrace postmodernism.

that was so poetic

 

[nsw..wollongong]

It’s creating ur own fairytale with your ambitious attempt to ever embrace postmodernism.

that was so poetic

Don't you think it's funny that the same people supporting mental illness are the ones who love black people? Ooops.

now what does race have to do with anything

 

[SylviaB]

now what does race have to do with anything

Idk, just seems weird that mentally ill people/supporters would like this person's race - what does that say about black people?

 

[nsw..wollongong]

Idk, just seems weird that mentally ill people/supporters would like this person's race - what does that say about black people?

 

[triangular]

gender ≠ biological sex
Gender encompasses the norms and expectations that society chooses to associate with certain biological sexes, while pronouns have become a social indicator of biological sex rather than a component of gender expression. Like, if someone wants to express themselves in a so-called "masculine" or "feminine" way in contrast to their biological sex, what's the issue? What your genitals are are none of my business, and my genitals are none of your business either in a day-to-day setting. So many people get pressed by the 5% who exaggerate this debacle online and make inflammatory comments for the sake of views and attention. People need to remember that the people who choose explore their pronouns IRL are just exploring their self-expression and there's nothing wrong with that. I have friends who use they/them pronouns and are absolutely lovely people, they aren't problematic or anything society paints them to be. We need to stop demonising these groups online because many of them are NORMAL PEOPLE who don't deserve to be shredded and dehumanised by people who make grotesque assumptions about them.
TLDR: our daily interactions with other people should not be based on their biological sex because it's none of our business, plus our interactions should be based on the meaningful conversations and the exchange of ideas and experiences we have with each other. (the last clause is literally the entire point of eng adv common mod)
have a productive day everyone~

 

[its_ace21]

ur either born with a dick or a vagina and NOTHING can change that

 

[SylviaB]

gender ≠ biological sex
Gender encompasses the norms and expectations that society chooses to associate with certain biological sexes,

So when transgendered people say they're "born this way", that is obviously wrong, because gender isn't innate but socially constructed.

What your genitals are are none of my business, and my genitals are none of your business either in a day-to-day setting.

Do you consider women's spaces to be part of day to day life? Like women's bathrooms, change rooms, gyms, sports, medical faciliities etc?

So many people get pressed by the 5% who exaggerate this debacle online and make inflammatory comments for the sake of views and attention.

This stuff is being pushed onto people's children - that's the main thing.

TLDR

: our daily interactions with other people should not be based on their biological sex because it's none of our business, plus our interactions should be based on the meaningful conversations and the exchange of ideas and experiences we have with each other.

No, the meaningful exchange of ideas that conform to politically correct standard is what I think you mean.

 

[triangular]

So when transgendered people say they're "born this way", that is obviously wrong, because gender isn't innate but socially constructed.

I consider the statement made by some trans people online stating they're "born this way" as how they love to express themselves according to society's ideas of gender. For example, a trans man will express themselves in a socially-understood masculine way and use he/him pronouns as that is what they feel affirmed by. : )

Do you consider women's spaces to be part of day to day life? Like women's bathrooms, change rooms, gyms, sports, medical faciliities etc?

I believe that people who identify outside of the gender binary should use spaces related to their biological sex, such as male/female bathrooms etc, as that is their inherent biology -- they are private spaces after all, and thus we should respect each other's privacy. As a note however, I currently do not have an opinion on changing biological sex, as scientific and legal studies and consensus has still not been established and I am always being informed by new perspectives and research. Has anyone watched Jubilee Middle Ground videos with trans people? I watched the trans vs de-trans video a while ago and it opened me up to new views I hadn't previously considered.

This stuff is being pushed onto people's children - that's the main thing.

I agree, social media rules and restrictions are too lax, and parents, the education system and the law are not doing enough to protect children + educate older kids and teenagers on alogrithms, echo chambers and its impact on polarisation.

No, the meaningful exchange of ideas that conform to politically correct standard is what I think you mean.

Please don't put words into my mouth and be disrespectful : ). What I meant by my statement is simply what we are doing right now -- this is positive and meaningful social discourse, because we are exchanging our views with each other, and this discourse is not informed by my biological sex or yours (at least from my side).

 

[nsw..wollongong]

I believe that people who identify outside of the gender binary should use spaces related to their biological sex, such as male/female bathrooms etc, as that is their inherent biology -- they are private spaces after all, and thus we should respect each other's privacy. As a note however, I currently do not have an opinion on changing biological sex, as scientific and legal studies and consensus has still not been established and I am always being informed by new perspectives and research. Has anyone watched Jubilee Middle Ground videos with trans people? I watched the trans vs de-trans video a while ago and it opened me up to new views I hadn't previously considered.

see this is where it can become dangerous, im a woman, im gonna use the women's bathrooms. someone whos biologically a woman but identifies as a male comes into the bathroom, do i not feel uncomfortable by someone who LOOKS like a man but claims to need to use the women's bathrooms? a) there have been so many cases of sexual assault especially in schools bc of this. b) what abt women who wear the hijab and they see someone who looks like a guy coming into the bathrooms. c) what abt women changing in the bathrooms.
But let's go with your rationale, what about a trans woman walking into men's bathrooms if they're biologically male... yk how weird that can also be for the guys in the bathrooms? They see someone who looks like a girl walking in and they're supposed to be fine with that?

 

[triangular]

see this is where it can become dangerous, im a woman, im gonna use the women's bathrooms. someone whos biologically a woman but identifies as a male comes into the bathroom, do i not feel uncomfortable by someone who LOOKS like a man but claims to need to use the women's bathrooms? a) there have been so many cases of sexual assault especially in schools bc of this. b) what abt women who wear the hijab and they see someone who looks like a guy coming into the bathrooms. c) what abt women changing in the bathrooms.
But let's go with your rationale, what about a trans woman walking into men's bathrooms if they're biologically male... yk how weird that can also be for the guys in the bathrooms? They see someone who looks like a girl walking in and they're supposed to be fine with that?

I totally get what you mean and in retrospect I could be taken aback too. But the question comes in is, where do these people go, considering that society is largely against trans people using bathrooms that align with their gender? Then again, we probably encounter more masc-presenting ciswomen/more fem-presenting cismen than actually trans people because their population is so small, especially considering trans people who have not medically transitioned would display biologically inclined physical features. In reference to points (a) could you clarify who committed assault against who plus do you have sources? (b) muslim women (assuming that is who you are referring to) are respected if only trans people who are biologically female use female bathrooms right, based on my understanding (anyone knowledgeable on schools of islamic thought pls correct me if I'm wrong! thanks). Also, just as we are respecting other people's religious identity, those people should also respect others' identities as Australia is a free and secular country. (c) surely people change in bathroom stalls right, not in front of the basins or stuff-

 

[nsw..wollongong]

But the question comes in is, where do these people go, considering that society is largely against trans people using bathrooms that align with their gender? Then again, we probably encounter more masc-presenting ciswomen/more fem-presenting cismen than actually trans people because their population is so small, especially considering trans people who have not medically transitioned would display biologically inclined physical features.

i don't even have the expertise on this, im gonna be honest i don't know. if u make a bathroom specific for trans people then they're gonna get offended that ur not treating them like a "real" man or woman, i don't even know how it would work i cant lie and that's why its a difficult issue, its not a black and white situation.

(a) could you clarify who committed assault against who plus do you have sources?

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/com/LASC-C96E/PPROLAB202-EF1C/Taken%20on%20Notice%20and%20Response,%20Womens%20Forum%20Australia.pdf

-- "To list every single trans-identified male (and proponent of the falsehood that men can be women), domestically and internationally, who has caused harm to women, girls and greater society would take thousands of pages. " This is a legal report btw, so where u said that there's no legal evidence for us to make these claims... is just wrong. Go thru this report, this shows both domestic and intl examples of cases. There's too many on here, and not enough being done about it.

(b) muslim women (assuming that is who you are referring to) are respected if only trans people who are biologically female use female bathrooms right, based on my understanding (anyone knowledgeable on schools of islamic thought pls correct me if I'm wrong! thanks). Also, just as we are respecting other people's religious identity, those people should also respect others' identities as Australia is a free and secular country.

idk if ur getting my point, someone who changes their scarf in the bathroom sees someone who LOOKS like a man coming in (they're biologically female tho), are they not supposed to question anything? so now Muslim women cant change in the bathrooms bc they need to respect trans ideologies because this is a free and secular country, it always goes back to that right? Not just Muslim women feeling uncomfortable tho, i guarantee almost every woman regardless of religion would feel very uncomfortable seeing a man walking into the bathrooms, no one would shrug their shoulders and feel like that's normal

(c) surely people change in bathroom stalls right, not in front of the basins or stuff-

im talking more about change rooms in schools or in public areas like pools, beaches, etc. ppl change in the bathrooms like that, yes.

 

[triangular]

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/com/LASC-C96E/PPROLAB202-EF1C/Taken on Notice and Response, Womens Forum Australia.pdf

thanks for this! I'll have a look at it

idk if ur getting my point, someone who changes their scarf in the bathroom

OH I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABT CHANGING THEIR SCARVES MY BAD OKAY YEAH THATS FAIR

i don't even have the expertise on this, im gonna be honest i don't know. if u make a bathroom specific for trans people then they're gonna get offended that ur not treating them like a "real" man or woman, i don't even know how it would work i cant lie and that's why its a difficult issue, its not a black and white situation.

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/com/LASC-C96E/PPROLAB202-EF1C/Taken%20on%20Notice%20and%20Response,%20Womens%20Forum%20Australia.pdf

-- "To list every single trans-identified male (and proponent of the falsehood that men can be women), domestically and internationally, who has caused harm to women, girls and greater society would take thousands of pages. " This is a legal report btw, so where u said that there's no legal evidence for us to make these claims... is just wrong. Go thru this report, this shows both domestic and intl examples of cases. There's too many on here, and not enough being done about it.

idk if ur getting my point, someone who changes their scarf in the bathroom sees someone who LOOKS like a man coming in (they're biologically female tho), are they not supposed to question anything? so now Muslim women cant change in the bathrooms bc they need to respect trans ideologies because this is a free and secular country, it always goes back to that right? Not just Muslim women feeling uncomfortable tho, i guarantee almost every woman regardless of religion would feel very uncomfortable seeing a man walking into the bathrooms, no one would shrug their shoulders and feel like that's normal

im talking more about change rooms in schools or in public areas like pools, beaches, etc. ppl change in the bathrooms like that, yes.

you're totally right about the black and white thing, when I was typing my answer up I was picturing mall bathrooms since I haven't changed at school in a WHILE (never been so glad that sports isn't compulsory in senior years anymore )

 

[nsw..wollongong]

thanks for this! I'll have a look at it



OH I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABT THAT MY BAD OKAY YEAH THATS FAIR



you're totally right about the black and white thing, when I was typing my answer up I was picturing mall bathrooms since I haven't changed at school in a WHILE (never been so glad that sports isn't compulsory in senior years anymore )

lolll its all g tbh i haven't encountered many instances of bathroom incidents myself mayb bc of where i live but most of what i know is from other people's experiences, i reckon its def important to listen to everyone's opinions on this matter

 

[WeiWeiMan]

i don't even have the expertise on this, im gonna be honest i don't know. if u make a bathroom specific for trans people then they're gonna get offended that ur not treating them like a "real" man or woman, i don't even know how it would work i cant lie and that's why its a difficult issue, its not a black and white situation.

This may be a controversial opinion but I think all toilets should be gender-neutral cuz I don't wanna be on the verge of pissing myself while the female toilet is vacant

 

[nsw..wollongong]

This may be a controversial opinion but I think all toilets should be gender-neutral cuz I don't wanna be on the verge of pissing myself while the female toilet is vacant

no because then there's gonna be a "do i keep the toilet seat up or down" situation nuh uhhh

 

[WeiWeiMan]

no because then there's gonna be a "do i keep the toilet seat up or down" situation nuh uhhh

Just put it down to give a neutral position?

 

[its_ace21]

This may be a controversial opinion but I think all toilets should be gender-neutral cuz I don't wanna be on the verge of pissing myself while the female toilet is vacant

no.

 

[nsw..wollongong]

Just put it down to give a neutral position?

Nah cuz my chem class acc had a debate abt this, the guys were so adamant on keeping the seat up and the girls looked like they would kill to keep it down

 

[its_ace21]

Nah cuz my chem class acc had a debate abt this, the guys were so adamant on keeping the seat up and the girls looked like they would kill to keep it down

why would u wanna keep a seat up