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And this line of logic could be applied to whatever prominent person you are talking about. Still though, just stating that they do believe something is not proof. The proof is in why they believe what they do.

I get so lost in some of your comments slidey. You claim that it does not matter what a prominent person thinks (and I agree with this, although there points could be very valid), and use the courts and the pope as an example in why intelligent design can be dismissed? I imagine, 'persuade' was...

Does this not assume that life and its longevity has some value and meaning? Ok, so the response I got from you guys is can basically be summed up as: Intelligent Design has a negative spin on it because it = teh stoopid

I think I actually pretty much agree with everything you have said here. My last point of resolve lies in the fact that we both recognize that individuals have the capability of making either choice when presented with a decision. Now whilst I recognize that they may be prone to choosing one...

Sorry to Kwayera and 3unitz for not posting up my examples on irreducible complexity. To be honest, I'm just over debating for the moment. I feel as though I am just attacked after every comment I make. It could just be my thoughts, but their seems to be a fair amount of hostility in this...

So then, could you point out what in the bible gave you the impression that angels don't have free will?

Got to disagree here. I that were true then Satan would have had an inability to choose will outside of Gods own (since he originally was an angel, according to the bible). That is clearly not the case :P

I'll do some digging and bring some new examples to the table/board tomorrow. I will admit that my research into the problems has been been fairly limited so far (so you would do well to educate me otherwise). The best I had seen (which wasn't very great at all) showed that it's possible that...

In a loose sense I agree with this, but I would modify you're claim that God created evil. Certainly he allowed it to come into existance, but that is through free will of humans. So in this way it's not outside of His character for evil to exist. Indeed, I would maintain that without his...

First part of my response is directed back at Boris (at least I think) on the question on how Jesus dying is love. I suppose one has to first agree with the biblical principles of sin and free will to then see how a God dying for those things is loving. If we look at the biblical definition of...

Wow, the thread has escaped me once again it seems! :P Interesting read through the latest posts. I can't help but be a little disappointed that we seem to back where we started. Have we made no progress in our discussions? It also surprises me the amount of assumptions and ignorance that...

Yeah, of course I understand this. I myself am in the same boat - in fact I'm probably worse of since I haven't done any of the sciences. As a result I am simply left with an honest search for truth amongst like minded individuals. I don't expect everyone to have all the answers. I'm just asking...

Aahha! So the analogy is flawed and we cannot therefore use the analogical method? Well this makes a lot more sense then. If you don't believe that the language found in DNA is comparable or accurate in analogy with our own language, there lies a large component of my confusion. I suppose then...

Yes and no. I'm still kind of lost. Is there anywhere you can direct me for further reading on the topic? At the moment, I feel like I'm just wasting your time asking you to re-iterate again and again. The message I think I'm getting from is is that since we are the meaning ascribers, we cannot...

I'm guessing by month your exaggerating and referring to the week of discussion we've had on this topic? Either way, I'm not trying to put myself in a position where I deem every other answer as false. It's just that as of yet, I haven't found reasoning enough to change my current thoughts -...

Your point here isn't connected with the questions you are raising. I would think your trying to get back into the suffering debate again? It's a pretty long read, but you're correct. I should have has a better attempt at getting through it. I believe this paragraph from the introduction sums...

Precisely, but it's an unfalsifiable theory either way.

I think we're all in agreement that even if you don't believe in objective moral values, you still wouldn't have reason to kill someone. That moral conscience is still pressing upon you even if it has no ultimate meaning. I think what veloc1ty's father may have been getting at is simply how...

To show that we do occupy a special place in the universe, you would have to be able to show that other galaxies do have different physical laws governing them - this is why it is unfalsifiable. We must make an assumption that we are not in a special place in the universe in order to do science...

This question belongs in the "Does God Exist?" thread, where I would be happy to discuss it with you. My point here was only to question why they hold that anything from the bible is true if they don't believe it is all true.